relapse

[Edge]

Actually, I totally get you on this. It's not exactly with trust for me, but a lot of beliefs about myself or other people, yeah, it's like the synapses just aren't there. I can't internalize some things no matter how hard i try, like that people can have positive opinions of me, and that their old positive opinions still apply. If they say one contradictory thing to me, that all is gone, immediately. And no matter how much they have cared about me and showed that they care, that will all be gone too as soon as they are gone. I have to keep getting validation that they care, over and over and over again, like someone is pushing a reset button. So even though I have no boundaries of my own, I can never test other people's boundaries, cuz I still see myself as this person who means nothing to them. It feels really sad always having that reset button pushed.

Yeah I can understand this. It's a bit different with me since I don't trust that they like me or care at all, but I can understand.
I'd recommend putting up boundaries. They're needed for any interaction with people and for self esteem.

But yeah, I guess I said I shouldn't be giving advice cuz whenever i do it ends up as some kind of BS I don't really believe anyway, I just convinced myself that I do long enough to blurt it out. Actually that's why I hate having opinions at all, i never know if they're real or what, cuz I can't tell when my reset button gets pushed. Grrr...

I don't know if this is what you mean, but here's some advice anyway. I find it helps to remind myself that it's ok to be chaotic, changeable, and contradictory. It's who I am and I like it. Like Loki. Sometimes, I confuse myself, but that's ok too and, sometimes, I just need to roll with it.

So truth is, i'm just as frustrated with all this as you and lately I've been avoiding people, again. I never actually kept a long term friendship, I always screw it up somehow. I guess the only difference is I'm still clinging to the fantasy despite how painful it is. I kind of like the pain in an f'ed up way tho. It's the one thing that's always been there. But I also spent a huge portion of my life ridiculously isolated because I was feeling what you're feeling, and all i can say is, that is so painful too, at least for me. I don't know.

I've never had a long term friendship either (unless my abusive ex counts). I used to think I was the one that always screwed them up and that I should have been better so that they wouldn't want to hurt me. I don't think that any more. Far from it.
For me, the pain of isolation is from the pain of the fantasy. Get rid of the want for the fantasy and there will be no more pain. There is some pain I like too, but it is from things that also gave me something worthwhile. This gives me nothing worthwhile.

[Frank]

You want to be a sociopath but without the overt destructiveness? Well. I think it's possible. People have been known to do horrible things and lock the feeling part out without being psychopaths.

You already know a bunch of people would probably tell you don't turn your emotions off, it's a human thing blah blah blah...nah, there's plenty of reasons to shut it off. Just stop caring. People tell you their problems and want your attention for it? Not your problem. Just put it out of your head and think about something else. Everyone wants to tell other people their problems and get sympathy but most of them won't do the same for you, so don't feel bad about it. Basically, look out for number one. You. If you want human company, call them up and have a good time, then let it go.

[Edge]

Actually, I'm already overtly destructive. I don't act on it because I want to avoid jail/getting killed, but that's pretty much all that stops me.
Other people telling me their problems isn't the problem. The problem is I want to tell people my problems and, as you know, that's some special kind of stupid. So I need to get rid of the fact that I care that I can't. How do I do that?

[MadelineB]

Hey Victor, Maddie here. I get where you are coming from, especially the frustration that a) you aren't being understood when you say you want to stop needing or desiring interaction with, and validation from, other people, especially since from your perspective, that needing and wanting has only increased your pain and made it harder to isolate yourself so you can feel safe(r). And b) if they do hear you, that no one has real suggestions about how to stop caring.

I have quite a but of personal, practical experience with what you are seeking. It is quite attainable if you have the discipline to study, to practice, and to not give up. You have your choice between three major traditions of mindfulness meditation, that have millennia of successful track history of helping individuals to let go of their wants desires and neediness are concerned, and to learn to take people as they are, not needing or caring for them to act any particular way, or be in any kind of relationship with you.
The traditions fall under the Vedic/yogic schools, the various Buddhist schools, and the various Taoist schools.

I personally have had the best results with the Zen/Chan Buddist meditation, leading me to the Taoist water school for advanced practice, but you would probably find the meditation practices associated with the martial arts more resonant with your masculine way of seeing the world.

It has given me an enormous amount of relief, while letting me stay clear headed and safe, because I own my thoughts and emotions, they do not own me. I can and do turn off the wanting machine. People are what they are and I can take them or leave them.

P.S. I also hear you state a belief that no one cares about you or ever has. I acknowledge that that is your experience and since you appear to only accept evidence to the contrary if it is in person, I invite you to visit Portland OR any time, or to meet me on one of my trips to New York this summer, or Bangkok. If you do meet me you will meet one person who does care a lot and doesn't want anything but to know you as you are.

[Edge]

Thanks, Maddie. I have looked into martial arts. Unfortunately, I can't fit what is available in my city around my son's schedule and I can't afford a regular babysitter. I have tried meditation and mindfulness the way I've learned it so far, but have had no luck in making it work. I'll check around to see if I can find something about them online though and see if I can teach myself.

P.S. I also hear you state a belief that no one cares about you or ever has. I acknowledge that that is your experience and since you appear to only accept evidence to the contrary if it is in person, I invite you to visit Portland OR any time, or to meet me on one of my trips to New York this summer, or Bangkok. If you do meet me you will meet one person who does care a lot and doesn't want anything but to know you as you are.

Unfortunately, even if I were to meet you in person, I still wouldn't believe it. I'm honestly not trying to be stubborn. I really can't.

[Frank]

Actually, I'm already overtly destructive. I don't act on it because I want to avoid jail/getting killed, but that's pretty much all that stops me.
Other people telling me their problems isn't the problem. The problem is I want to tell people my problems and, as you know, that's some special kind of stupid. So I need to get rid of the fact that I care that I can't. How do I do that?

Compartmentalize people and tell certain ones certain things. Essentially, the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing (...or knows?). You get the input you want, but no one person knows the whole story. To confound it further, change names and relations of the persons involved in your problem. Or perhaps frame it as someone else's problem as well.

[Edge]

Thanks for trying, Frank, but that still doesn't help me stop wanting connections with people. I want to tell no one anything and be perfectly fine with it.

[sad panda]

Yeah I can understand this. It's a bit different with me since I don't trust that they like me or care at all, but I can understand.
I'd recommend putting up boundaries. They're needed for any interaction with people and for self esteem.

I'm working on it... it hasn't been easy though and I have learned enough times why they are. Even just telling the people in my life I can't set boundaries is probably really dangerous but fortunately they don't get how seriously true it is. I feel like I'm just waiting to be used again and I don't know how to stop it.

I don't know if this is what you mean, but here's some advice anyway. I find it helps to remind myself that it's ok to be chaotic, changeable, and contradictory. It's who I am and I like it. Like Loki. Sometimes, I confuse myself, but that's ok too and, sometimes, I just need to roll with it.

Hah, I love Loki. He's so deliciously cool. I've had so many characters like that I kept in mind before. They tend to become addictions. Their darkness I mean. You already got the joker... umh, I was just thinking of Damon from vampire diaries earlier (sorry if peeps don't know who that is.) I'm learning to accept my craziness too, bit by bit, even if it feels like I'm weak crazy and these characters are strong crazy. Seems like the difference is in how I really care about people even if I ruin it. Gotta admit I think it will always hurt a bit though.

Though, bf said something interesting to me yesterday. He implied that borderlines (really he just meant me though) don't really truly care about people, just people believing that I care. I had to think about it.... It scares me that he might be right. My reset button feels like such a horrible thing. But I can't change it.

I've never had a long term friendship either (unless my abusive ex counts). I used to think I was the one that always screwed them up and that I should have been better so that they wouldn't want to hurt me. I don't think that any more. Far from it.

Ugh. Sorry to hear that. It is horrible how different things look from the inside. I can see why you would want to avoid letting that happen again. :c

For me, the pain of isolation is from the pain of the fantasy. Get rid of the want for the fantasy and there will be no more pain. There is some pain I like too, but it is from things that also gave me something worthwhile. This gives me nothing worthwhile.

But, do you think that you can get rid of the want for it? I mean I'm not trying to challenge that. It just sounds like it will be really hard and stressful. I really hope you can find some peace though. (:

[Kimberley Beauregard]

Edge, I'm sorry I haven't been of much help, but I do hope your situation improves.  It won't be consoling, but I do mean that.