relapse

[Edge]

I feel like crap tonight. Of course, being tired and possibly sick is no doubt contributing, but things have been getting steadily worse over the past few months anyway. Also, no doubt exacerbated by stress due to my son's various illnesses, school, and the like.
I get triggered much more easily now. My memories intrude pretty much all the time. I've had less control over my temper and yelled at two people (well, one was more of a panic attack, but it looks the same to people when I yell). I feel depressed and out of control. I want very badly to retreat into my head and all that stops me is knowing that doing so will make it very difficult to function and it would be so tempting not to come back out.
I need something to help ground me. What's more, I need to want to be grounded in the world outside my head. Something other than people.
I very much wish I could talk to one of my friends about this, what my life has been like, what is going on with me without them thinking any less of me or thinking I'm weak. I want to talk in person though, not on the internet. But I can't. I don't know how to ask and, even if I did, I can't think of anyone I'd want to talk to who would agree.
Know what started this relapse? Caring about someone. Fancying someone I know can't feel the same way about me (and probably doesn't even like me) reminds me of all those "friends" I had who were attracted to me and who would use me and discard me and how disgusted I am with them. I am disgusted with myself.
I'm sick of it. I'm sick of wanting connections with people. I'm also sick of hearing that it's human and something I should want. I don't want to want it. If I have to get rid of my humanity to get rid of it, so be it. I've heard it's impossible, but lots of things were impossible before someone did it.
So how would one get rid of it? What is it that makes people social? Some people claim that they'd be able to be completely alone just fine. Are they lying or is it true? If it is true, what is it they have that I don't?

Hopefully since made some sort of sense.

[immortal gypsy]

First get yourself to bed couch whatever and rest up. You are no good to yourself and your son if your ill. 

It depends on what they mean on being completely alone while they may not have anyone special in there life or absolutely no friends the only true people that are completely a island are those that live in a cave on a island out on the ocean in the middle of nowhere. Some people myself included pretend to socialize while remaining aloof from the world, but we still interact with people constantly.

To start grounding yourself in what I call the real world is there any clubs that share your hobbies or interest. Even sitting in as an outsider at first it is interaction an different.  WARING MAJOR FLIPANT REMARK BUT IS SERIOUS two types of people will keep a secret a counselor and priest.  I've seriously thought about using the second and I'm not religious.

I think we all care about people and wish to be social in some way it's what makes us human. The only ones that don't are psychopaths

'I see a pretty girl walk down the street and wonder what her head would look like on a stick' Edward Kemplar III

[Kimberley Beauregard]

Immortal is spot on.  I've (embarrassingly) gone crazy over crushes and the only thing which helped was having some hobbies to keep my mind occupied (and after a while, the feelings faded anyway).

I'm very anti-social and I've had my fair share of crappy people but I still need to interact with others, even if only on a superficial level.  I've been lucky to find friends I trust and can truly talk to anything about.  It's of little consolation that most people suck (such is people and such am I sometimes) and that's why I set the bar high.  I also have a history of getting used and even abused physically and emotionally and my only resolve was to learn how to spot these abusive behaviours and be assertive.

I don't think I could do a lot to help you and should benefit from talking to a doctor and/or counsellor about your problems.  As a long-term sufferer of clinical depression, I've had relapses and they suck horribly, but they rarely last for over a fortnight.  Yours has lasted for much longer than that and sounds serious to me.  Whatever you choose to do, don't try to rid yourself of your humanity.  I'm not directly responsible for someone like you are and I can still find plenty of reasons to keep mine.

[Edge]

Apologies. Apparently, I am so incoherent that what I meant to say was interpreted as the complete opposite.
I want to stop being social, not join a club. I want to completely get rid of the wish for friends. I am really sick and tired of people telling me I shouldn't. I don't care if everyone does or it makes us human. I want it gone.
Btw, I've talked to several doctors and counsellors. All they can do for this is tell me they can see why I'd want to and that they have no idea what to do. As in they literally didn't/don't have any suggestions. A priest is right out.
For once, I wish people would actually listen to and respect me and what I'm saying.

[immortal gypsy]

Then sadly the only way to disconnect from this world that is a cave top of the Mountain on an ocean in the middle of nowhere without any wi-fi.

Homo sapiens sapiens (us) is a social creature by instinct we want friend we want to be apart of a community sadly there is nothing we can do to fight this apart from learning to deal with our pain and pushing it in other directions. 

Unless you're a sociopath or a psychopath (and that is for the medical community to determine not us) the want for friendship will always be there. Just remember just become it's a want doesn't mean it's a need you can live without it. It hurts but it is possible. I hope this helps and sorry for not understanding your original post

[Edge]

I will find a way to make myself a psychopath then.

[Ltl89]

Actually, have you thought about moving out in the wilderness?  Being one with nature and away from other humans.  Maybe the act of doing just that may help you.  Or at least doing something similiar in the short term may help you gain clarity and find a way to overcome those feelings.  Like training to appreciate isolation.  Sorry, I know that isn't helpful, though that's the best thing that I could think of. 

And your not crazy or a pyschopath for feeling this way.

[Edge]

The problem with moving out in the wilderness is I don't have enough money, I don't drive, and I'd still have to interact with people regardless.
The second problem is I'd still want to interact with humans since I still have no idea how to get rid of the wish for friends.
Actually, I am crazy. For one, I have been diagnosed with two personality disorders (although one is likely a misdiagnosis since no other psychiatrist I've seen agrees with it) with symptoms of ptsd. For two, "crazy" is a term used by lay people to describe people like me all the time. It makes sense that I feel the way I do, but it's also true that I am mostly alone in thinking the way I do. As for a psychopath, I never said I was. I said I want to be.

Tomorrow will be my last day at school which means it will also likely be the last day I see my university "friends" since no doubt they will avoid hanging out with me during the summer and then pretend to be my friends again when school starts up. Oh if I ask they'll agree to hang out "sometime," but they'll avoid making plans and will never invite me into any of their plans. Or they'll avoid answering me altogether. Either way it leaves me in this annoying limbo where I can tell they don't like me, but continue chasing after them like a pathetic puppy because of some stupid hope that I'm just being paranoid. It's disgusting.

[sad panda]

Ugh, can i give you a hug? Eh it's not real anyway so just take the sentiment...

Well, I don't know if it goes without saying since you've seen me around here too, but I seriously get what you're going through. Story of my life for just the longest time now.... I've been in and out of withdrawing into myself since forever ago, and in this freaking miserable, exhausting cycle of throwing myself at people/into things because I can't take the isolation, I can't take being alone, then running away as soon as it gets too close for comfort, feeling sad and uncertain the whole way. And obviously my social status has suffered so much for that. And obviously I don't really know the answer. All i can do is lend some of my self awareness, which doesn't really fix the problems but.

Would you agree that ultimately you're expressing a need here? Even if you can't articulate it exactly, you can say what it makes you want to do. Avoid. You want to stop feeling the impulse, but ultimately, what you want to do is to avoid. The impulse to be social, to care about and need other people, that is a part of you. You can't help what you are. What you are is the only reason you even feel the pain of that and start wanting to avoid it. You can't separate some needs from others... they are all a part of you.

Yes, you CAN cut that part out of you, basically. You can ignore it, ignore the possibilities of caring, ignore wanting a connection to other people, and little by little it will atrophy. It will become harder (than it already is) to connect, harder to exist in this small lil world with everyone else. Your comfort zone will shrink to every inch of your skin and you'll live in a small world with probably a lot of numbing behaviors to get by.

You can't be a psychopath. That is not what you are. They aren't that way because they willed it. They just turned out that way. It comes natural to them and it will never come natural to you... and that is perfectly acceptable. Acting like a psychopath and believing you are one ( I'm not saying you can't make yourself BELIEVE you are one, and i can attest to how horribly convincing these beliefs can be, but the thing is, they'll always fade away and you'll feel different, right? ) will never satisfy you because you will always no somewhere that you're not genuinely doing those this.... you're avoiding.

You're avoiding needing other people. You're avoiding giving them power over you, especially emotional power, the power to cause hurt. They call this counterdependence. And like codependence, it stems from a basic flawed (because it's black and white) belief. That I WILL be hurt, i won't be able to get by if I (have / don't have) a connection to other people. It's the same coin. I've been counterdependent and right now I hate to say it but the bald truth is that I'm horribly codependent. Because I'm avoiding having to rely on myself, because I think I will fail me, because it hurts to value who I am only to find out I am less than that, or I am not that.

I'm only saying this all because I have thought EXACTLY the same things you are thinking right now. I have wanted to numb myself from this pain so bad, yeah, wanted to be a socio/psychopath, a narcissist, any kind of freak with no empathy and no connection to others. And practically every experience with people risks flaring it up again. Cuz it's a wound that still needs healing. There is a wound at the bottom of all this and all I can promise is that no matter how much you get what you want right now, all the distance from people... the way you feel now will *not* last. You are going to get to that point where you regret that distance and you wish you could feel connected to other people again. Because that need is real and it is a part lf you, just like the need to shelter and protect yourself. Don't you think so?

None of these things are wrong. These feelings are okay. They're you, communicating to you, saying, help I really need something right now. It's good to acknowledge how you feel. It's good to accept that it hurts, but also that you aren't its prisoner if you choose not to be.

And please, please, i know how hard it is, but please do not tell yourself that there aren't good people out there who are worth caring about. I get how fakse that can feel but... You know there are. Some part of you HAS to know that. Or you wouldn't be struggling with letting that go. Well, you don't have to find the answer soon. All these possibilities can exist at once. I don't really even know you, but I honestly care a lot. If anything, just because I think I have an idea of how you are suffering right now and I think that you are too valuable to lose to that. Not because you're special, but just because you are a person, you deserve to have happiness, you deserve to find good things in life. You deserve that just like everybody else. It's okay to deserve that and okay to need it.

Anyway, yeah. I hope you can believe that those people are out there, and even if nobody is perfect, that that's worth it, even if it's harder in a lot of ways.

I don't know, I'm sorry if I sound really full of it right now though, part of me is talking to myself here. All I can do is share those feelings. Cuz I want to believe in them too.

Anyway, again, I don't know you, but if you ever need someone who you can trust not to judge you for who you are or think you're weak, you can send me a PM. But, sorry if that's exactly the opposite of what you really want right now. :c just hope you're ok.

[Adam (birkin)]

Tomorrow will be my last day at school which means it will also likely be the last day I see my university "friends" since no doubt they will avoid hanging out with me during the summer and then pretend to be my friends again when school starts up. Oh if I ask they'll agree to hang out "sometime," but they'll avoid making plans and will never invite me into any of their plans. Or they'll avoid answering me altogether. Either way it leaves me in this annoying limbo where I can tell they don't like me, but continue chasing after them like a pathetic puppy because of some stupid hope that I'm just being paranoid. It's disgusting.

I don't know if this helps, but everyone does that to everyone (avoiding making plans, not seeing each other for a while and then acting like nothing happened). It's endemic in university especially. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say "let's have coffee sometime" and coffee never happens. I've said it to people too, and talked to people about how we do that to each other. The consensus is almost always that it's not that no one cares about their friends, they just get caught up in life/lazy, time passes, and then you feel afraid to reach out to others because it's been so long.

But as for your main concern about wanting to be less social...lol well I've had enough periods in my life where I've become a hermit. I'm not saying it's always healthy, but when I do it, I usually just find something I'm passionate about to focus on. Like my thesis, or a hobby (but that's been awhile). It gives me alone time and helps me refocus my thoughts.

[Edge]

Thanks, sad panda. You're pretty close. Not completely, but that's to be expected.
I actually don't do the cling/run away cycle. I maintain a balance of reaching out while holding them at arms length.
I'm also not all that interested in good people. I'm not a good person myself (which I am 100% happy with) and would prefer to be friends with people like me. I just don't believe anyone other than myself can care about me. I don't think that's black and white thinking considering no one ever has (again, aside from myself) and those who have claimed to had a hurtful way of showing it. (Also, my mom has used accusing me of black and white thinking in some of her mind games, so it's a bit of a trigger for me. She'd try and convince me that the abuse never happened, that I deserved it, and crap like that. It may not seem like a big deal, but I have nightmares about her.)
The rest is spot on though I think. Thanks. I guess what I need to do is learn how to make this weakness into a strength. I still think I need to learn to tolerate being isolated though.

Thanks, Caleb. Part of what gets to me though is that they hang out with each other, but they don't hang out with me. Also, there have been times I have actively tried to make plans with them and they fell flat because the other person just continued saying "sometime" or ignored me completely.

[Nero]

Hey Edge,

I relate to you a lot. You actually remind me of myself some when I was younger (don't know if that pisses you off or not, it probably would me  ). Anyway, when I was 14, I wound up in a hospital and they diagnosed me with anti-social personality. (Now leaving aside, that I think they had no business diagnosing me with a personality disorder under 18 and all that.) It was not true. I did have empathy and I was capable of caring about others. You are too. And I know that's not a pleasant feeling, probably even less for you with your background. But it's okay. You can still be whomever you want to be and still have feelings about people. You're not Voldemort.



you're never going to be that cold and lifeless, because you have a child. You know what it is to love.
And that's okay. Doesn't mean you can't achieve whatever you dream of. Accept yourself as a wonderful human being and parent who follows his dreams and has feelings like every other human out there. You know? Realize that you would be less if you did not feel. Being able to feel for someone - love, attraction, anything - is to have blood in your veins. And you do. Your instinct to fight this power within you only proves it.

Nobody cares about Voldemort, because ultimately he is uninteresting.





But most Harry Potter fans love Snape.



He's beautiful because he's human and he loves. Like you.

[Edge]

(Now leaving aside, that I think they had no business diagnosing me with a personality disorder under 18 and all that.)

You're right. Personality disorders can't be diagnosed until after eighteen.

Accept yourself as a wonderful human being and parent who follows his dreams and has feelings like every other human out there.
You know? Realize that you would be less if you did not feel. Being able to feel for someone - love, attraction, anything - is to have blood in your veins.

Well, I accept the wonderful, parent, and following dreams part, but I can't figure out what caring about people gives me other than unnecessary pain.

But most Harry Potter fans love Snape.

He's beautiful because he's human and he loves. Like you.

lol Using my favourite Harry Potter character against me. How did you know?
Joking aside, although I like Snape as a character, I don't want to end up like him. I don't want to spend the rest of my life pining for something I can't have.

[Nero]

Snape is awesome (for some reason, I listen to Harry Potter audiobooks to go to sleep lol). Unfortunately, I think I've already ended up like him.



It's not all bad though. Snape loved so deeply to change his convictions. And it was very painful for him - to see the guy who bullied and humiliated him in Harry, but to also see the woman he loved but could never have.  This is why we feel for Snape. Does anyone seriously feel for Voldemort? No.
And think about it - would Snape be more beautiful, more lovable as a soul if he had gotten Lily? No, because that has nothing to do with it. He is beautiful because he feels. What Lily does or does not do has no bearing on that. He is beautiful either way. And so are you.

[Edge]

No one feels for me either whether I feel or not.
Also, in case this isn't repeated enough, I LOVE being me. How other people treat me, think of me, or whatever has absolutely no bearing on what I think of myself.
Thanks for calling me beautiful though.

[Nero]

No one feels for me either whether I feel or not.
Also, in case this isn't repeated enough, I LOVE being me. How other people treat me, think of me, or whatever has absolutely no bearing on what I think of myself.
Thanks for calling me beautiful though.

Oh, I wasn't doubting that. I get that you like yourself. But you seem to be struggling with feeling for others. And I just wanted to say that however unwelcome those feelings are, they make you alive, make you vibrant and beautiful. Whereas someone cold and unfeeling, incapable of feeling - like Voldemort - is ultimately uninteresting and just a plot device. Snape, on the other hand, is a living, breathing, feeling being we can all relate to. Does anyone care about Voldemort? Ultimately, no. He's just a plot device. But Snape is a beautiful, living, breathing thing. That's why we love him. He loves, he feels, he hurts. We love him for it. The reader falls in love with Snape. He is so much more human than anyone else in the books.

And you, Edge, are not like Voldemort. You are like Snape. And it's okay to have your flaws and feel.

[Edge]

Yes, but Voldemort doesn't care if people don't love him and, although people do love Snape, no one has ever, does, or likely will ever love me.
The Joker doesn't love anyone either (except for maybe the Batman- that was a joke) and he's certainly interesting and vibrant.

[sad panda]

Thanks, sad panda. You're pretty close. Not completely, but that's to be expected.
I actually don't do the cling/run away cycle. I maintain a balance of reaching out while holding them at arms length.
I'm also not all that interested in good people. I'm not a good person myself (which I am 100% happy with) and would prefer to be friends with people like me. I just don't believe anyone other than myself can care about me. I don't think that's black and white thinking considering no one ever has (again, aside from myself) and those who have claimed to had a hurtful way of showing it. (Also, my mom has used accusing me of black and white thinking in some of her mind games, so it's a bit of a trigger for me. She'd try and convince me that the abuse never happened, that I deserved it, and crap like that. It may not seem like a big deal, but I have nightmares about her.)
The rest is spot on though I think. Thanks. I guess what I need to do is learn how to make this weakness into a strength. I still think I need to learn to tolerate being isolated though.

Thanks, Caleb. Part of what gets to me though is that they hang out with each other, but they don't hang out with me. Also, there have been times I have actively tried to make plans with them and they fell flat because the other person just continued saying "sometime" or ignored me completely.

Heya, sorry that triggered you. I didn't mean it personally, y'know, pretty much everyone falls victim to black and white thinking sometimes, because almost everyone has feelings. Black and white is usually just emotional thinking. The point is just that it's not the whole picture, and everybody loses sight of that sometimes. So i don't mean to stereotype you... and It's not really wrong or bad per se though, just limited, you know?

But, I get why you'd feel sensitive to that esp if it's linked to your mom.... Personally I'm like that a lot with my dad and anything that reminds me of him. these days it even feels ridiculous, the emotional hold he has over me, when he's hardly even in my life anymore.

Otherwise... I think everybody has a definition of a good person. They could be some kinda jesus or they could actually be a total ->-bleeped-<-. Good isn't a real thing, just at the end of the day for each individual it's easier to live with and to even like some people than others. And that is okay.

I would suggest that maybe you could even study other sociopaths, see how it really is to them, but those people are probably pretty toxic to anyone around them, you know? But maybe from a distance? Bios and stories and stuff? You can learn something from everyone even if you'll ultimately always be you.

I dunno, but it just seems really sad to me to think that there's nobody out there who would feel for you just cuz you haven't had an example of that yet. Just wondering.... what would somebody have to do to make you feel that they cared about you? That they're worth existing closer than arm's length. That's a rhetorical question btw. Anyway, maybe you never will meet someone like that, but there are seriously a lot of different types of people out there, and just personally I feel like the possibility doesn't have to be threatening either, don't you think? Maybe it's just a possibility that could exist, and if it worked, you could run with it, but without telling yourself too much that you need it? Or especially that you don't need it.

Mmm, just some thoughts, sorry if I'm off base again though ;w; hahah, like I'm the right person to be giving anyone advice anyway. :/ listen to FA, he's cool.

[Edge]

Heya, sorry that triggered you. I didn't mean it personally, y'know, pretty much everyone falls victim to black and white thinking sometimes, because almost everyone has feelings. Black and white is usually just emotional thinking. The point is just that it's not the whole picture, and everybody loses sight of that sometimes. So i don't mean to stereotype you... and It's not really wrong or bad per se though, just limited, you know?

No worries. You didn't know it was a trigger or that it had been used against me in the ways that it has.

But, I get why you'd feel sensitive to that esp if it's linked to your mom.... Personally I'm like that a lot with my dad and anything that reminds me of him. these days it even feels ridiculous, the emotional hold he has over me, when he's hardly even in my life anymore.

Yeah. I think it's time to get rid of words like "ridiculous" though. It's been seven years (I think?) since I left my parents' house and while since I completely cut them out and people keep telling me that it "shouldn't" bother me anymore and I should just "get over it." I think it's time to accept that it's not that easy to get over it especially with intrusive memories, flashbacks, nightmares, etc and that there's nothing shameful about it taking more time.

I would suggest that maybe you could even study other sociopaths, see how it really is to them, but those people are probably pretty toxic to anyone around them, you know? But maybe from a distance? Bios and stories and stuff? You can learn something from everyone even if you'll ultimately always be you.

lol I have. Not necessarily just sociopaths, but serial killers, mass murderers, and the like. Especially when I was younger and trying to figure out why I am the way I am (the more violent parts of me that I don't talk about here much). I am aware I am not a sociopath. What I am is pretty toxic to be around too though.

I dunno, but it just seems really sad to me to think that there's nobody out there who would feel for you just cuz you haven't had an example of that yet. Just wondering.... what would somebody have to do to make you feel that they cared about you? That they're worth existing closer than arm's length. That's a rhetorical question btw. Anyway, maybe you never will meet someone like that, but there are seriously a lot of different types of people out there, and just personally I feel like the possibility doesn't have to be threatening either, don't you think? Maybe it's just a possibility that could exist, and if it worked, you could run with it, but without telling yourself too much that you need it? Or especially that you don't need it.

Although it's a rhetorical question, I will answer it anyway. There is nothing anyone can do to make me trust them. I'm not just saying that to be ornery. It's like (and I'm probably getting the biology wrong) the synapses that allow for trust have been disconnected and won't fire. I literally can't even if I wanted to.
It's not the possibility that's threatening. It's the false hope that it is possible when it's not. It gives me nothing but problems and pain. Before jumping on that stupid hope thing and claiming that means things it doesn't, I should explain that the only reason it is there is out of some pathetic, desperate wish for someone. Not because I believe there is someone, but because I haven't been able to let go of the wish for people no matter how hard I try and no matter how much I know there is no one and there never will be. I know people want to claim it's a good thing and all that jazz, but I should warn ahead of time that doing so to me will just piss me off. And rightfully so since that would invalidating and basically trying to convince me that useless pain is good for me and that I should be stupid and pathetic (not something I react to well).
(Sorry for being pre-emptively defensive. I really will blow up if someone tries this crap though.)

Mmm, just some thoughts, sorry if I'm off base again though ;w; hahah, like I'm the right person to be giving anyone advice anyway. :/ listen to FA, he's cool.

Nah. We've got the same personality disorder right? We've both got insight into it even if we may not take our own advice. Besides, of course some parts are going to be off base. We're different people and I've got more things weird about me than most.
FA is cool and I like him, but (and I hope he doesn't take offence to this) his advice in this case doesn't make much sense.

[sad panda]

Although it's a rhetorical question, I will answer it anyway. There is nothing anyone can do to make me trust them. I'm not just saying that to be ornery. It's like (and I'm probably getting the biology wrong) the synapses that allow for trust have been disconnected and won't fire. I literally can't even if I wanted to.
It's not the possibility that's threatening. It's the false hope that it is possible when it's not. It gives me nothing but problems and pain. Before jumping on that stupid hope thing and claiming that means things it doesn't, I should explain that the only reason it is there is out of some pathetic, desperate wish for someone. Not because I believe there is someone, but because I haven't been able to let go of the wish for people no matter how hard I try and no matter how much I know there is no one and there never will be. I know people want to claim it's a good thing and all that jazz, but I should warn ahead of time that doing so to me will just piss me off. And rightfully so since that would invalidating and basically trying to convince me that useless pain is good for me and that I should be stupid and pathetic (not something I react to well).
(Sorry for being pre-emptively defensive. I really will blow up if someone tries this crap though.)

Actually, I totally get you on this. It's not exactly with trust for me, but a lot of beliefs about myself or other people, yeah, it's like the synapses just aren't there. I can't internalize some things no matter how hard i try, like that people can have positive opinions of me, and that their old positive opinions still apply. If they say one contradictory thing to me, that all is gone, immediately. And no matter how much they have cared about me and showed that they care, that will all be gone too as soon as they are gone. I have to keep getting validation that they care, over and over and over again, like someone is pushing a reset button. So even though I have no boundaries of my own, I can never test other people's boundaries, cuz I still see myself as this person who means nothing to them. It feels really sad always having that reset button pushed.

But yeah, I guess I said I shouldn't be giving advice cuz whenever i do it ends up as some kind of BS I don't really believe anyway, I just convinced myself that I do long enough to blurt it out. Actually that's why I hate having opinions at all, i never know if they're real or what, cuz I can't tell when my reset button gets pushed. Grrr...

So truth is, i'm just as frustrated with all this as you and lately I've been avoiding people, again. I never actually kept a long term friendship, I always screw it up somehow. I guess the only difference is I'm still clinging to the fantasy despite how painful it is. I kind of like the pain in an f'ed up way tho. It's the one thing that's always been there. But I also spent a huge portion of my life ridiculously isolated because I was feeling what you're feeling, and all i can say is, that is so painful too, at least for me. I don't know.