Ladies, how important is it for you to be beautiful?

[mandonlym]

Oh beauty... yeah I don't know it's weird. I'll set my bull->-bleeped-<- self-deprecation button aside and say that I've been considered attractive pretty much all my life. I was a super-cute kid, an attractive young man (though I was my least conventionally attractive at this stage), and an even more attractive woman. It's something I'm aware of but also often take for granted.

I answered "Not that important" in the poll because I spend very little time on my appearance. The most you'll see me do is wear lipstick and mascara on a date. But I also know that the reason that's possible is that I have the privilege of looking the way I do. I slept over at my boyfriend's last night and I caught him staring at me with such admiration and desire as I was putting on clothes this morning to go to dance class. And I thought to myself, how many transwomen get to experience this kind of admiration, especially ones who haven't had any surgery except for SRS? I do feel lucky that way.

There are hard things about it though, especially among transwomen. There's a lot of literature that talks about how really attractive women find it hard to make close female friends. I'm above-average among women in general, but I'm aware that I'm exceptional among transwomen, and that's always caused social problems for me. It's isolating sometimes not being able to form close friendships with other transwomen because I trigger jealousy or dysphoria, or I get pursued as a kind of trophy (if she's my friend then it must mean I'm attractive too, etc.).

Though also, ever since I was a child, I never felt fully *seen*. There's a mind, a heart, and a soul inside of me that a lot of people don't get to experience because they only see me as a face or a body. So ever since I was young, I determined that I will be the best person I can become because I can't only be my appearance. This is partly a response to Abby. The people I gravitate towards are the ones who see the attractiveness as icing on the cake, rather than the cake itself. Over the years, not spending time on my appearance and sometimes actively doing things I know would make me less conventionally attractive (like chopping off my long blonde hair and coloring it blue) has allowed me to feel seen and valued apart from physical beauty. And that's a great feeling.

So it's all a lottery. I made out pretty well, so I feel an obligation to be a good person to somehow justify what luck has given me. Despite my deep flaws (including the vanity that's a part of this post), being more than my looks has been a lifelong and constant and worthwhile effort.

[stephaniec]

It was fairly important, but I've mostly given up on it. Now I'm just trying to keep what little sanity I may still possess.

I'm just trying to survive.

[Evelyn K]

I honestly just think its a product of how objectified transwomen are, so much so that it internalizes. A transgirls success is measured by how pretty she is and I'm not blaming people on here for internalizing that cuz its just natural. So cuz I'm pretty people on here are a bit nicer cuz pretty subconsciously equals success. And if a transgirls pretty it somehow validates others' experiences. Its more to do with transphobia and the effect it has but I don't judge.

Or maybe its just me projecting my real world experiences on to people on here. I guess maybe I just hate my personality so much I can't see why anyone here would "care about me" for more than that cuz why? I see no reason

You are pretty and you are a success in your own right. A lot of us may look up to you ... because you are an inspiration and some may idolize you, it's easy to do in our tiny little bubble community here... But let's keep things in perspective ... I'll post this video to help us all re-frame our minds on what pretty and true femininity really is.



None of us will ever achieve this kind of beauty. *ever*. So let's all get back to being our humble selves and thank the unknown powers above that we have a life to live (with our own unique gifts) in the first place.

[MbutF]

But let's keep things in perspective ... I'll post this video to help us all re-frame our minds on what pretty and true femininity really is.



None of us will ever achieve this kind of beauty. *ever*. So let's all get back to being our humble selves and thank the unknown powers above that we have a life to live (with our own unique gifts) in the first place.

I can't really say much about femininity (because I don't know), but I don't really compare 'prettiness', if you're pretty, you're pretty. She is 'super model pretty', but other women are beautiful in their own, different way.

I've seen some very pretty MTFs, here and elsewhere. I honestly don't think they're any less than cis woman. I can name more than a few here, but I won't, but maybe it's just my eyes.

[Nero]

But let's keep things in perspective ... I'll post this video to help us all re-frame our minds on what pretty and true femininity really is.



None of us will ever achieve this kind of beauty. *ever*. So let's all get back to being our humble selves and thank the unknown powers above that we have a life to live (with our own unique gifts) in the first place.

I can't really say much about femininity (because I don't know), but I don't really compare 'prettiness', if you're pretty, you're pretty. She is 'super model pretty', but other women are beautiful in their own, different way.

I've seen some very pretty MTFs, here and elsewhere. I honestly don't think they're any less than cis woman. I can name more than a few here, but I won't, but maybe it's just my eyes.

Yeah, I didn't watch the full clip, just the beginning. So if there was another message I missed, I'm sorry. Beauty is so subjective. She's obviously conventionally pretty. To some people, she may be the bees knees. But not really to my personal taste. I don't see her as any better looking than Abby or some of the other girls here.

MbutF is right - there's a point of prettiness most people can agree on. But beyond that, it's all personal taste. For instance, I personally find dark brunettes the most beautiful. Others may think differently.

[Ltl89]

Ya know t's funny but I've noticed the opposite of what most here have seen about being pretty.  Rather than getting more sympathy, I get more confrontation and jealousy.  I feel like now that some people know what I look like and feel that I am pretty (I'm not at all but some people do think that) that all of a sudden I have no reason to talk.  I have no struggles in life.  I have no mental problems or anything.  By virtue of my looks alone, life should be a breeze and simple and that I have no right to talk about the negatives.  I've seen enough of that and it makes me regret ever showing my face.  Looks alone don't define how easy someones life is or whether they have a right to struggle.  I'm sick of the reverse judgement as well.  The fact is I'll never feel pretty or believe that I have self worth in any sense regarldess of what anyone else tells me.  I am trying to fix that, but it doesn't mean I am just whiny or that problems don't exist in life. 

[Evolving Beauty]

Physical beauty for me is of the UTMOST important and the BASE of my transition. Without beauty you're nothing as a ->-bleeped-<- to what I've seen. People already have no respect for transsexuals and now a not attractive one...unless she can prove herself and be accepted in other professional and academic fields.

And I honestly prefer to look like a bombshell unpassable ->-bleeped-<- than an ugly/ordinary looking genetic woman.

And please spare me that sh*tty quote of 'Beauty is internal' of dunno what crap. It's obviously a beautifully painted HYPOCRISY.

BEAUTY BRINGS RESPECT.

[Evelyn K]

Ya know t's funny but I've noticed the opposite of what most here have seen about being pretty.  Rather than getting more sympathy, I get more confrontation and jealousy.  I feel like now that some people know what I look like and feel that I am pretty (I'm not at all but some people do think that) that all of a sudden I have no reason to talk.  I have no struggles in life.  I have no mental problems or anything.  By virtue of my looks alone, life should be a breeze and simple and that I have no right to talk about the negatives.  I've seen enough of that and it makes me regret ever showing my face.  Looks alone don't define how easy someones life is or whether they have a right to struggle.  I'm sick of the reverse judgement as well.  The fact is I'll never feel pretty or believe that I have self worth in any sense regarldess of what anyone else tells me.  I am trying to fix that, but it doesn't mean I am just whiny or that problems don't exist in life.

I find:

Those who are gorgeous and reveal themselves in photo's will get ignored in short time "She's just showing off..."
  * The truth is, if you are gorgeous, you won't be continually coming here for validation anyway. I've seen a few drive-by's already.
Those who are 'pretty' and post their photo's will get exasperating comments of support, with some appreciable jealousy.
Those who 'pass' and post their photo's will get reassurances that they are on the right path and garner a bit more reciprocity. If you 'pass' you just made the threshold, and may see more attention from either side of the blurred line.
Those who 'don't pass' will get the most attention and reciprocity--because they are now in the majority--there's much more rapport, familiarity and dialogue at this level.

The cliques define themselves.

[Evelyn K]

Physical beauty for me is of the UTMOST important and the BASE of my transition. Without beauty you're nothing as a ->-bleeped-<- to what I've seen. People already have no respect for transsexuals and now a not attractive one...unless she can prove herself and be accepted in other professional and academic fields.

And I honestly prefer to look like a bombshell unpassable ->-bleeped-<- than an ugly/ordinary looking genetic woman.

And please spare me that sh*tty quote of 'Beauty is internal' of dunno what crap. It's obviously a beautifully painted HYPOCRISY.

BEAUTY BRINGS RESPECT.

Two snaps! Hear Hear!

[innainka]

As in my own observation, I started to pursue beauty after giving in to the inevitability of transition. But this beauty wasn't expression of mainstream standards but it was expressed in the innateness of feminine character.
I wanted to exude as much of inner light as I observed natal woman glow with feminine spark.
I was able to get to such reality despite the impossible, but once I had arrived there, the want to be beautiful not only within but as well without overwhelmed my senses.
I too pursued the beauty of flesh. Well, I don't know when such pursuit will exhaust its energy or when I will truly look at my self and be comforted by the reflected image. But I too know, that this illusion of beauty is innate to naturally born women.

[MbutF]

Physical beauty for me is of the UTMOST important and the BASE of my transition. Without beauty you're nothing as a ->-bleeped-<- to what I've seen. People already have no respect for transsexuals and now a not attractive one...unless she can prove herself and be accepted in other professional and academic fields.

And I honestly prefer to look like a bombshell unpassable ->-bleeped-<- than an ugly/ordinary looking genetic woman.

And please spare me that sh*tty quote of 'Beauty is internal' of dunno what crap. It's obviously a beautifully painted HYPOCRISY.

BEAUTY BRINGS RESPECT.

I agree with everything you said. I'd be lying if I said I agree with the 'beauty is internal' thing that others want me to accept. Right now, I'm saying it too, looks is of utmost importance to me too...

It's just a question of how beautiful you want to be, even people celebrated for their looks will tell you they don't like something about themselves, even though we think they're perfect. Everybody sees flaws in themselves, that others may not see. 

[MbutF]

MbutF is right - there's a point of prettiness most people can agree on. But beyond that, it's all personal taste. For instance, I personally find dark brunettes the most beautiful. Others may think differently.

This is what i wanted to say......

[Miss_Bungle1991]

Physical beauty for me is of the UTMOST important and the BASE of my transition. Without beauty you're nothing as a ->-bleeped-<- to what I've seen. People already have no respect for transsexuals and now a not attractive one...unless she can prove herself and be accepted in other professional and academic fields.

And I honestly prefer to look like a bombshell unpassable ->-bleeped-<- than an ugly/ordinary looking genetic woman.

And please spare me that sh*tty quote of 'Beauty is internal' of dunno what crap. It's obviously a beautifully painted HYPOCRISY.

BEAUTY BRINGS RESPECT.

Sorry but I disagree with the "Beauty Brings Respect" idea. People who place such an extreme emphasis on dolling themselves up to the Nth degree are in desperate need for attention and that is the truth. It doesn't bring "respect". Honestly, anyone that believes in an idea such as this is living within a VERY short-sighted worldview. Unless you have a ton of money for plastic surgery, your "beauty" will fade. Not to mention the fact that in the meantime, you WILL suffer scorn and ridicule from other women because they will see you as something else. No matter if you are trans, cis, etc. It makes no difference. You will be painted with a broad brush by some people such as "Oh look at her, she thinks that she's soooo hot. Such a 'God's gift to women/the world/whatever'". I've seen it with my own eyes many times just from observing other people. Myself, I am very plain, very boring and I like it that way. I rarely get bothered by anyone (except for teen girls who seem to think I am one of them...which is EXTREMELY funny since I am in my latter 30s). I tend to just fade into the scenery most of the time. It works for me.

I see no need to doll myself up if I don't feel a genuine need to do so. For I to do that, it would be completely and utterly fake. It would also be no better than when I was living in the closet prior to my transition. Honestly, the ONLY thing that has changed between then and now is that I don't wear shirts of metal/punk/noise bands. It makes no difference now if I am wearing a solid colored women's top or back in the day if I were wearing a Discharge shirt. I am who I am and that is it.

I tried all of that make up rubbish and it turned out to an expensive waste of time that did nothing but eat up my money. Besides, all of that stuff is HORRIBLE for your skin, nails, etc. I've seen the effects of that stuff on the women that I know and it ages them a lot. I also get a fair amount of compliments from the women that know me on my skin and I tell them all the same thing: All I did was drink plenty of water, stayed away from make up and I never did the sun-bathing/tanning booth thing.

You don't need to buy into all of these goofy myths about beauty.

As far as the "->-bleeped-<-" label goes, I do not apply that label to myself. I see it as insulting and demeaning. Am I a transperson? Of course. But a "->-bleeped-<-"? Nope. No way.

[sad panda]

Well, I wonder if part of it is that you've been around here awhile, having multiple names and accounts. And so when you come in under a new name, we don't know until you post a pic. And then we're like 'oh it's 'fiercegirl'!' I for one, liked you long before I ever saw your pic (I don't tend to look in the picture threads). You have a very distinct personality. So, I doubt looks is why people like you here. Though of course, you're right. Pretty people are treated better.

Part of it may also be age on here. More leeway tends to be given and a lot of members may have daughters your age.

Well yeah, I get that there's those other factors too, but I'm not gonna lie to myself, the major difference is absolutely about whether or not people know what i look like. Personality helps because it can also modify the mental image people get of me, but beyond that.... idk. It's not like I expect it to be different but it still surprises me every time.

Thanks though. I'd actually rather be liked for who I am if I thought that I could.

Sad Panda is fiercegirl? And I was recently thinking where did she go and what happened to her!

Girl you look fierce, but yep.... that's me lol. Trying to maintain a significantly less visual presence this time. Well, I don't know how to present as a boy anyway so.

[Nicolette]

Physical beauty for me is of the UTMOST important and the BASE of my transition. Without beauty you're nothing as a ->-bleeped-<- to what I've seen. People already have no respect for transsexuals and now a not attractive one...unless she can prove herself and be accepted in other professional and academic fields.

And I honestly prefer to look like a bombshell unpassable ->-bleeped-<- than an ugly/ordinary looking genetic woman.

And please spare me that sh*tty quote of 'Beauty is internal' of dunno what crap. It's obviously a beautifully painted HYPOCRISY.

BEAUTY BRINGS RESPECT.

Without doubt, I'd prefer to be an ordinary looking genetic woman than a bombshell unpassable "->-bleeped-<-". Many cis-super models look exceptionally ordinary without the war paint and rags. And this is the thing. Place a very attractive ts into a crowd of cis-women and they suddenly become very ordinary indeed. The trans and cis scales of beauty we are judged by are leagues apart.

[Chic]

Without doubt, I'd prefer to be an ordinary looking genetic woman than a bombshell unpassable "->-bleeped-<-". Many cis-super models look exceptionally ordinary without the war paint and rags. And this is the thing. Place a very attractive ts into a crowd of cis-women and they suddenly become very ordinary indeed. The trans and cis scales of beauty we are judged by are leagues apart.

Not entirely true. It's a bit rare, but some transgirls look naturally feminine and so they have a good headstart in front of other transgirls to the point of looking attractive and cis without makeup, thereby giving them the same starting point as other bio-femmes to look like models when all gussied up. I've seen some transgirls who look more attractive than 90% of the cis women in the world.

[Allyda]

Without doubt, I'd prefer to be an ordinary looking genetic woman than a bombshell unpassable "->-bleeped-<-". Many cis-super models look exceptionally ordinary without the war paint and rags. And this is the thing. Place a very attractive ts into a crowd of cis-women and they suddenly become very ordinary indeed. The trans and cis scales of beauty we are judged by are leagues apart.

This is what I'm shooting for. Just an ordinary average looking woman who blends into the crowd without a second thought from anybody. I've alot of female friends both cis and trans, and those of them that are exceptionally pretty attract alot of unwanted attention. Now don't get me wrong I do pride myself in my looks and want to look nice, but I'm just shooting for the semi-pretty but plain looking girl next door look. Even as I look now I still get unwanted attention in places such as our local boat ramp and Wal-Marts/grocery stores. I'm polite about it though and say thank you, but I have it handled, etc., or something along those lines depending on the situation.

[Allyda]

I'd like to say one last thing: referring to we, your fellow sisters and even yourself as "->-bleeped-<-'s" is a bit degrading to me.

[MbutF]

Not entirely true. It's a bit rare, but some transgirls look naturally feminine and so they have a good headstart in front of other transgirls to the point of looking attractive and cis without makeup, thereby giving them the same starting point as other bio-femmes to look like models when all gussied up. I've seen some transgirls who look more attractive than 90% of the cis women in the world.

That is very true, chic. I'm glad I'm not alone. I think some transgirls are way too hard on themselves, even though they're beautiful. I swear it, transgirls can be as attractive as any cis girl.. There are a lot of them too.

[Nero]

Not entirely true. It's a bit rare, but some transgirls look naturally feminine and so they have a good headstart in front of other transgirls to the point of looking attractive and cis without makeup, thereby giving them the same starting point as other bio-femmes to look like models when all gussied up. I've seen some transgirls who look more attractive than 90% of the cis women in the world.

That is very true, chic. I'm glad I'm not alone. I think some transgirls are way too hard on themselves, even though they're beautiful. I swear it, transgirls can be as attractive as any cis girl.. There are a lot of them too.

Yep. Cis women certainly don't have a monopoly on beauty.

Anyway, it sucks we live in society where women are so judged on the outside. It's a detriment to all women, cis and trans, beautiful and less so. Every last woman in this thread should know she is beautiful no matter her outsides.