Aesthetics: Suporn vs Brassard

[dejan160]

Don't worry about your partner sensations... It feels more tight then genetic one

[dling]

Don't worry about your partner sensations... It feels more tight then genetic one

Oh, so I've heard 

But what about the *texture*? Like, in genetic woman isn't the vagina more like the mouth? With some bumps? Or is it dependent on the woman?

If I may ask, what surgeon did you have your surgery with? 

[Jenna Marie]

(I answered this one earlier - I know I've posted a lot, so it's easy to miss.)

[dejan160]

My vagina gets wet it is just it is extra tight and most of my partners have been very well endowed. None has said anything but they like the size..... I used Dr Chettawut

[dling]

Ah, I see

So, I contacted the clinic and they sent me some photos of results and some info. I sent them back some questions, hopefully they will answer soon 

They're so much more bureaucratic though. 2 letters, one from someone with a master's degree and one with a PhD, or something like that. Plus one from an endocrinologist. Ah, Canadians! 

[dling]

Okay, so, their reply was very vague, if anyone knows the answers to these questions I'd appreciate it.

1. Are dilators included in the total price?

2. What is the minimum and maximum depth of the vagina that can be achieved?

3. If a revision were to be needed, would it be done for free or would it have to be paid for?

4. In the case of a personal consultation with Dr. Brassard in Montreal, can he attest to whether or not hair removal is needed in order to have a hair-free vagina?

5. Is traveling by plane recommended only 6 days after the surgery?

6. Is there a minimum or maximum BMI (body mass index) needed in order to have the surgery?

[Jenna Marie]

Yes, dilators are included, the full set of four.

Depends on your material and the amount of room in your torso - there's a point beyond which most surgeons cannot go, which limits depth (but it's usually plenty, and the same is true for cis women anyway).

Revisions are free for the first year; paid thereafter.

Brassard recommends strongly AGAINST hair removal for everyone; that's actually in their standard info packet, or used to be.

Don't know.

They told me he had no BMI limit but preferred a lower weight than I currently was, but nobody actually said anything to me once I got there and it wasn't an issue.

[dling]

Yes, dilators are included, the full set of four.

Depends on your material and the amount of room in your torso - there's a point beyond which most surgeons cannot go, which limits depth (but it's usually plenty, and the same is true for cis women anyway).

Revisions are free for the first year; paid thereafter.

Brassard recommends strongly AGAINST hair removal for everyone; that's actually in their standard info packet, or used to be.

Don't know.

They told me he had no BMI limit but preferred a lower weight than I currently was, but nobody actually said anything to me once I got there and it wasn't an issue.

Thanks for the reply 

So, regarding depth, did Dr. Brassard tell you around what he could give you when you had a consultation with him?

His secretary did send me a document talking about hair removal (and that it is not recommended), but that it is not guaranteed that all hair will be removed during surgery. I have heard of two girls who went to him and had hair inside later (they did say they were his last patients before his winter vacation, so, that could have to do with it)... Did you have any problems with hair Jenna?

In my case, my BMI mostly stays around 18.5, but I want to be sure in case it goes a bit under that I can still have the surgery.

Please let me know. Thanks 

[Jenna Marie]

He did, yes, and I got precisely the 5.5" he promised.

I had no hair removal before, and zero problems with hair regrowth after. His materials also say that unless you get the hair removal *finished* a minimum of a year before the surgery date, you're actually making it MORE likely that he'll miss some hair follicles and it will regrow...

Oh, you're talking about being *under* in terms of BMI - that I do not know. You might have to ask directly.

[dling]

He did, yes, and I got precisely the 5.5" he promised.

I had no hair removal before, and zero problems with hair regrowth after. His materials also say that unless you get the hair removal *finished* a minimum of a year before the surgery date, you're actually making it MORE likely that he'll miss some hair follicles and it will regrow...

Oh, you're talking about being *under* in terms of BMI - that I do not know. You might have to ask directly.

Ah, I see I will probably have a consultation with him before deciding, even though I really don't want to get on a long flight just for 15 minutes with him.

Something that does seem strange to me, though, is that he is able to perform the surgery in less than 3 hours, whereas Thai surgeons usually take at least 5. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. 

By the way, does he recommend using a cream inside the vagina (like Premarin or Estrace) or a ring (like Estring or Femring) at all?

[Jenna Marie]

He didn't recommend a cream when I was there. I think that is generally an issue a few months later, after most people are done asking him for advice. My gyno recommended switching to Vagisil lube b/c it's closest to natural lubrication, but that's all; I haven't needed anything medicated.

I believe he manages those operation times b/c he works with a partner. And assuming the results are as good (in general), the shorter the operation time the better; it's best not to be under anesthetic or in that stirrups position for too long. I know of at least one woman who ended up with loss of circulation to both legs after an 8-10-hour operation, and nearly lost her legs to it. (She's fine now, thank goodness.)

[dling]

He didn't recommend a cream when I was there. I think that is generally an issue a few months later, after most people are done asking him for advice. My gyno recommended switching to Vagisil lube b/c it's closest to natural lubrication, but that's all; I haven't needed anything medicated.

I believe he manages those operation times b/c he works with a partner. And assuming the results are as good (in general), the shorter the operation time the better; it's best not to be under anesthetic or in that stirrups position for too long. I know of at least one woman who ended up with loss of circulation to both legs after an 8-10-hour operation, and nearly lost her legs to it. (She's fine now, thank goodness.)

Wow that's *extremely* scary!  I am glad she is fine now, that really is a very dangerous thing to happen.

[Gigi_J]

Great thread Daahrling - one that I would have started myself as I'm also wanting to have SRS in the coming year and feel torn between Suporn (also potentially Kamol..who I've heard good things about and actually hear a lot of Brasilian girls go to him..would you agree?) and Brassard.

I'd say aesthetics for me are very important as they are for you...also scar placement...which from what I've heard and seen, seem to be better hidden and less noticeable in Suporn results, as he makes the incisions along the crease of the inner thigh. Brassard on the other hand seems to make 2 horse-shoe shape incisions either side of the innier labia. I'd love to hear from some Brassard girls who can confirm how these scars fade over time and if they do remain quite noticeable if you're shaved down there. I'm not someone would would want a lot of hair growth down there after the op so hair coverage alone to cover the scars wouldn't be good enough for me personally.

I agree with you that finding photos (from any surgeon) is a big quest - with many girls not being willing to share pictures of their result. I'd like to say that I understand that..and in some cases I do...but I can honestly say, when I do choose a surgeon and go through with the op, I'll have no problem showing my results to others if it helps them make their decision. The only reason I can think of that I'd be unwilling to show my photos would be if it was a less than good result that maybe I was embarassed about. But yeah, it seems most Suporn and Brassard girls are delighted with their results...so I just wish more girls shared So yes, it is a little frustrating that finding pictures seems so difficult at a time when so many people undergo SRS..especially of Suporn (most of his can only be found on his site and of course it's easy to think that surely only the best results would be put on his site so may not give the most accurate representation of a 'typical' result). I managed to find a few on the Dr_S Club yahoo group and Trans-surgery Yahoo group but apart from there, nothing at all. And as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the Brassard results on the AnneLawrence site are very out of date sadly.

I suppose in terms of the most simple and apparent differences, as many know I'm sure, Suporn's results always tend to be a lot 'fleshier' with a lot more labia (particularly inner labia) going on...whereas Brassard's results seem a lot smaller, neater. Personally I prefer the neater look with smaller inner labia for my taste but a couple of photos I saw of Brassard's results were a little odd-looking..so I'm constantly going back and forth between who I think is my top choice. Obviously, Suporn's longer (and often more painful) recovery is a big consideration but from what I've learnt, his sensation is second to none (beating even Brassard? of course this is debatable) so as time's gone on, I've started to drift a little more towards Suporn as I think to myself, well, if the sensation and depth are there then maybe it makes more sense to go to Suporn and then use another surgeon for a labiaplasty to get the aesthetics more in line with our own taste. Depth of course is another of Suporn's talents of course...and he can regularly offer 7 inches of depth, sometimes a little more. Even though I'm not a bad size and uncircumsized so would probably get decent depth with Brassard too...altho a good depth by Brassard's standards (confirmed in the email I got back from his assistant a while ago) would be 6 inches. Now I know 6 inches isn't bad...but ... there are a lot of guys out there with longer than 6 inches and for me...a guy bottoming out and reaching the end too soon during penetration would be a big negative for me. I know we're all different and for some that wouldn't be a priority at all. Then you have lots of girls in various forums that say that the average natal vagina is around 5 inches, etc etc...but the scientific reality is, a 4 or 5 inch natal vagina not only increases in length during arousal, but during penetration itself is able to stretch considerably and get much longer...whereas neo-vaginas cannot. So in that sense getting the maximum depth possibly, I think, is very important if this is a consideration.

So yes, those are my thoughts at the moment and why perhaps I'm leaning more towards Suporn at this moment in time but I'm still far from decided 100% and will probably sway back and forth a few times before I make a final decision!

Great thread though as I said..and I'll be following this with a lot of interest!

Gigi

[dling]

Great thread Daahrling - one that I would have started myself as I'm also wanting to have SRS in the coming year and feel torn between Suporn (also potentially Kamol..who I've heard good things about and actually hear a lot of Brasilian girls go to him..would you agree?) and Brassard.

I'd say aesthetics for me are very important as they are for you...also scar placement...which from what I've heard and seen, seem to be better hidden and less noticeable in Suporn results, as he makes the incisions along the crease of the inner thigh. Brassard on the other hand seems to make 2 horse-shoe shape incisions either side of the innier labia. I'd love to hear from some Brassard girls who can confirm how these scars fade over time and if they do remain quite noticeable if you're shaved down there. I'm not someone would would want a lot of hair growth down there after the op so hair coverage alone to cover the scars wouldn't be good enough for me personally.

I agree with you that finding photos (from any surgeon) is a big quest - with many girls not being willing to share pictures of their result. I'd like to say that I understand that..and in some cases I do...but I can honestly say, when I do choose a surgeon and go through with the op, I'll have no problem showing my results to others if it helps them make their decision. The only reason I can think of that I'd be unwilling to show my photos would be if it was a less than good result that maybe I was embarassed about. But yeah, it seems most Suporn and Brassard girls are delighted with their results...so I just wish more girls shared So yes, it is a little frustrating that finding pictures seems so difficult at a time when so many people undergo SRS..especially of Suporn (most of his can only be found on his site and of course it's easy to think that surely only the best results would be put on his site so may not give the most accurate representation of a 'typical' result). I managed to find a few on the Dr_S Club yahoo group and Trans-surgery Yahoo group but apart from there, nothing at all. And as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the Brassard results on the AnneLawrence site are very out of date sadly.

I suppose in terms of the most simple and apparent differences, as many know I'm sure, Suporn's results always tend to be a lot 'fleshier' with a lot more labia (particularly inner labia) going on...whereas Brassard's results seem a lot smaller, neater. Personally I prefer the neater look with smaller inner labia for my taste but a couple of photos I saw of Brassard's results were a little odd-looking..so I'm constantly going back and forth between who I think is my top choice. Obviously, Suporn's longer (and often more painful) recovery is a big consideration but from what I've learnt, his sensation is second to none (beating even Brassard? of course this is debatable) so as time's gone on, I've started to drift a little more towards Suporn as I think to myself, well, if the sensation and depth are there then maybe it makes more sense to go to Suporn and then use another surgeon for a labiaplasty to get the aesthetics more in line with our own taste. Depth of course is another of Suporn's talents of course...and he can regularly offer 7 inches of depth, sometimes a little more. Even though I'm not a bad size and uncircumsized so would probably get decent depth with Brassard too...altho a good depth by Brassard's standards (confirmed in the email I got back from his assistant a while ago) would be 6 inches. Now I know 6 inches isn't bad...but ... there are a lot of guys out there with longer than 6 inches and for me...a guy bottoming out and reaching the end too soon during penetration would be a big negative for me. I know we're all different and for some that wouldn't be a priority at all. Then you have lots of girls in various forums that say that the average natal vagina is around 5 inches, etc etc...but the scientific reality is, a 4 or 5 inch natal vagina not only increases in length during arousal, but during penetration itself is able to stretch considerably and get much longer...whereas neo-vaginas cannot. So in that sense getting the maximum depth possibly, I think, is very important if this is a consideration.

So yes, those are my thoughts at the moment and why perhaps I'm leaning more towards Suporn at this moment in time but I'm still far from decided 100% and will probably sway back and forth a few times before I make a final decision!

Great thread though as I said..and I'll be following this with a lot of interest!

Gigi

Yes, Kamol is extremely popular here (Lea T had her surgery with him, which made him even more famous). He and Suporn are the most talked-about surgeons in Brazil, whereas Brassard (and other North American surgeons) remain practically unknown...

Personally, I don't see scars as much of a problem because of laser technology available today. Also, I don't scar very easily, and do heal very well. Plus, many women who have had hysterectomies, and those who shave (or tried shaving...), have scars.

I've seen both good and bad Suporn results, however the only *truly* 100% results I've seen came from Brassard (aesthetically). For example: http://tarasresources.net/vulva.htm ... (and that one was in 2001).

All of Suporn results on the Dr_s club and trans-surgery yahoo group *really* scare me. I mean, I could never be content with any of those. Just couldn't. Same goes for the ones on Kamol's webpage. There are two on Suporn's website that I consider to be good.

There are really two things that may keep me from Brassard (I hope they don't): depth and hair growth. I need to know I'll have at least 6 inches of depth and no hair growth in the vagina. I plan on having a personal consultation with him before deciding on my surgeon in order to discuss this.

Also, 6 inches is pretty average depth (in cis woman). With HRT and arousal, I've read that the vagina may be able to expand an inch during intercourse. Plus, the positions you choose definitely make a difference during sex.

I know it is a very difficult. I recommend you at least pay a visit to Brassard before making such a life-changing choice.

My best regards

And God bless you!

[blueconstancy]

(Actually, the Masters and Johnson study that's most often cited says that vaginal depth in cis women averaged 2.75-3.25 inches when unaroused and 4.25 inches to 4.75 inches as a *maximum* depth when aroused. They didn't find much additional length during penetration, although width could increase somewhat. That would make 5" adequate and 6" generous. Penises are more compressible than dilators and also attached to people, too; very, very few men can get 100% of their erect length into a vagina, thanks to things like bodies getting in the way.)

[Gigi_J]

(From Wikipedia): 'With sexual arousal, the human vagina lengthens rapidly,[16] to an average of about 4 in.(10 cm), but can continue to lengthen in response to pressure. As the woman becomes fully aroused, the vagina tents (last ²⁄₃) expands in length and width, while the cervix retracts. The elastic walls of the vagina stretch or contract, with support from the pelvic muscles, to the size of the inserted penis or other object,[16]...'

So yes, I was a bit out with the average 'resting' natal vagina length. Though it's fair to say (many sources confirm it), that in response to pressure, the natal vagina lengthens considerably as well as widens. Whilst I agree penises compress and aren't rock hard like dilators, it's fair to say the length given thru SRS cannot expand any further than what is given, unlike natal vaginas. As someone who's never penetrated a woman, I can't speak from personal experience..but I've seen a lot of porn in my time (naughty I know!) and very rarely have I seen penetration where even larger guys bottom out after 4 or 5 inches and unable to enter fully (in those positions where this is possible obviously). This ability, on the whole, to accomodate longer guys has also been confirmed many times by interesting () chats with my own mother and many girlfriends.

[Gigi_J]

Yes, Kamol is extremely popular here (Lea T had her surgery with him, which made him even more famous). He and Suporn are the most talked-about surgeons in Brazil, whereas Brassard (and other North American surgeons) remain practically unknown...

Personally, I don't see scars as much of a problem because of laser technology available today. Also, I don't scar very easily, and do heal very well. Plus, many women who have had hysterectomies, and those who shave (or tried shaving...), have scars.

I've seen both good and bad Suporn results, however the only *truly* 100% results I've seen came from Brassard (aesthetically). For example: http://tarasresources.net/vulva.htm ... (and that one was in 2001).

All of Suporn results on the Dr_s club and trans-surgery yahoo group *really* scare me. I mean, I could never be content with any of those. Just couldn't. Same goes for the ones on Kamol's webpage. There are two on Suporn's website that I consider to be good.

There are really two things that may keep me from Brassard (I hope they don't): depth and hair growth. I need to know I'll have at least 6 inches of depth and no hair growth in the vagina. I plan on having a personal consultation with him before deciding on my surgeon in order to discuss this.

Also, 6 inches is pretty average depth (in cis woman). With HRT and arousal, I've read that the vagina may be able to expand an inch during intercourse. Plus, the positions you choose definitely make a difference during sex.

I know it is a very difficult. I recommend you at least pay a visit to Brassard before making such a life-changing choice.

My best regards

And God bless you!

I didn't spot your post until now! Ooooh OK, I'm quite new on this forum so I don't know of Lea T yet...I'll take a look around and see if I can find any of her threads - thanks for that.

Good point about the scarring - they can be improved with laser...but that takes a long time from what I hear and I suppose depending on the severity of the scarring, may not disappear completely - depends on our own personal way of scarring I guess too. I know after my trachea shave (in which Dr. Bart slipped with his scalpel and actually gave me an accidental second incision just below his main incision and right above the adam's apple area...yea, not good when your TS and don't want any attention drawn to that area!) that my scars, though not really bad, aren't great either so yeah for me scarring is still a consideration.

I must say I actually quite liked a couple of Suporn's results on the yahoo groups. Guess that's where personal taste matters. As for Brassard, I've seen some great results (including that link you showed me..looks great...but the pics are small...really hard to see in any detail)..and a couple of very strange looking results..though as we said, we haven't found loads. When I received a reply from Dr. Brassard's assistant, she attached about 5 post-op results. To me, that's not really good enough considering he must have performed many hundreds. I think sending a fair few more would put our mind at ease in terms of seeing general results and not just a few handpicked 'perfect' ones. I also read on several forums that you can book a consultation with Brassard but you're no more likely to get to see any more photo results than those few they can send by email...and that a consultation with him is very short. I'm in England so I don't think I could justify a long trip to Canada for half an hour discussing his procedure and not seeing any more results. Ideally I'd love to meet a couple of women who have used either of them to be able to meet in the flesh and possibly see their result in person but finding people willing to do that hasn't been easy at all.

As for a neo-vagina being able to expand an inch or so during arousal, I've never heard that myself...I'd love that to be the case though

Good luck if you do decide to have a consultation with Dr. Brassard and let us know how it goes - maybe I can be swayed into going to see him myself!

Gigi

[Giulia_dana]

if you are from Brazil I guess that you are well endowed and that can be a problem with Suporn technique. Many patients complain about having buried penises, which can cause great pain with well endowed patients.

I already asked this questions in another thread, but what does well endowed mean? Penis size of 6,8,10 inches when erected? Or even testicle/scrotum size? I have no comparison for what I've down there... 
I was planning to go with Suporn, but this "bulge" thing bothers me now...

[trans064134]

Honestly I am in doubt about this well-endowed issues. Maybe it's a YMMV thing. There was a certain well-endowed ts pornstar(i dont know if i can give her name here) who has gone to suporn almost 7 years ago. Her result is one of the most reassuring and well-made vagina I have seen from Suporn's work(also the ones on his site and that downloadable file contains many good results). And she was pretty big herself. I have also seen her performance with the vagina, everything looked great.

[JessikaBlackMage]

I watched one of PrincessJoules's videos, this one , and the short stay in the hospital really scares me, I don't wanna be flying back when I am still in pain. Suporn likes to keep his patients a lot longer so that they can recover more before they go home.