Cycling

[AlexisB]

Does anyone cycle their hormones? What benefits are there to it? How long do you do it for

[KayXo]

No benefits to it. Some speculate that it may be the reason for increased breast cancer risk. Menstrual cycles are not natural. Women would traditionally spend more time being pregnant and breastfeeding than experiencing hundreds of menstrual cycles as they do today. You will experience the ups and downs of hormone levels, causing neurological and negative symptoms when they are down (called PMS), like bloating, depression, anxiety, irritability.

Only drawbacks, no advantage whatsoever.

[AlexisB]

Does it not aid development?

[KayXo]

No. It is not superior to just taking hormones constantly.

[PrincessDayna]

The only med used for hrt that should, or will be prescribed to cycle, is prometrium. It would be 8-12 days of use a month, and thats it. Some people stay on it all month, some do not. Being the only progesterone that is bio identical, it has controversial, but benefits none the less. It is also proven to block T better than estrogen does alone, but schools of thought amongst endos vary. If you get into the synthetic progesterone, it is not as good at anything except moodswings and headaches. Beither estrogen or any AA's should ever be cycled.

[Jill F]

I do a P cycle and I can say mah bewbs are growing faster than they were without it.

[HoneyStrums]

I do a P cycle and I can say mah bewbs are growing faster than they were without it.

gives me some hope that i might not need ba.

[teeg]

I do a P cycle and I can say mah bewbs are growing faster than they were without it.

I'm not a doctor or anything, but to me it looks like all progesterone does is regulate the menstrual cycle. As far as effects on the breasts, it looks like it only can possibly cause breast tenderness (PMS symptom) as progesterone has shown to partly be responsible for symptoms of PMS. I'm unsure how it would do anything for us during transition.

[PrincessDayna]

Incorrect. Progesterone plays a key function during puberty in development of breast lobules. Source: my endo. I take it on a cycle (prometrium, wont give the dose) for endometriosis, and my breasts have grown, and that was what I was told. And trust me, my endo knows, he specializes in intersex conditions, and sub specializes in mtf hrt as well. One of the best in the nation on intersexed conditions, and travels a ton. Prometrium is bio identical. It also controls testosterone, prepares the body for pregnancy, keeps uterine lining in check, and swells breasts for milk production. It is metabolized from pregnanalone, and also plays key function in heart rythm patterns and controlling cholesterol, which in turn is what netabolizes pretty much anything in the body. It works side by side with estrogen. The reason not many endos use it in mtf hrt is ignorance, and fear of side effects, all of which are from hydroxyprogesterone, or from taking sybthetic P as the body does not metabolize it the same way as bio identical (micronized progesterone). Progesterone further breaks down into various progestins, which play key roles in female development as well as balance. It is mildy androgenic, which is why it is best to cycle it, but plays a far auperior role then aldactone or estrogen in its anti androgenic functions. Pronetrium is cream of the crop, and costs roughly aroubd $23 for a twelve day supply, under rx. Not sure without. If cortisol levels are low, or the adrenal glands are impeded, is when progesterone does bad things.

[Mirian]

The reason not many endos use it in mtf hrt is ignorance, and fear of side effects, all of which are from hydroxyprogesterone, or from taking sybthetic P as the body does not metabolize it the same way as bio identical (micronized progesterone). Progesterone further breaks down into various progestins, which play key roles in female development as well as balance.

Yes I fully agree on the points above. The problem with me is that after almost one month since I
started Prometrium I'm still rather unsure about the outcome, so I still prefer to shut off and wait
some more time.

It is mildy androgenic, which is why it is best to cycle it, but plays a far auperior role then aldactone or estrogen in its anti androgenic functions. Pronetrium is cream of the crop, and costs roughly aroubd $23 for a twelve day supply, under rx. Not sure without. If cortisol levels are low, or the adrenal glands are impeded, is when progesterone does bad things.

I never read anywhere that bioidentical P may have androgenic effects, even if this story seems to be
coming up from time to time here and there... but if you look at the conversion pathway (i.e Wikipedia)
one sees that P may indeed be converted to androstenedione or directly to other androgens.

[PrincessDayna]

Look up beta 3, and 21ohp CAH, and get back to me on that. It can (in large amount) break down into androgens, which is why it is considered 'mildly' androgenic. However, the mild part is not bad, and more so, you *still* need androgen in your system as a mtf. You just do not want androgen dominance. It is for that reason many endos who do utilize it for mtf hrt wait about 1.5-2 years to rx it as part of hrt, as they want to be fully sure that estrogen is the dominant or those two, because otherwise, dhea and shbg have a field day with P.

[KayXo]

I'm not a doctor or anything, but to me it looks like all progesterone does is regulate the menstrual cycle. As far as effects on the breasts, it looks like it only can possibly cause breast tenderness (PMS symptom) as progesterone has shown to partly be responsible for symptoms of PMS. I'm unsure how it would do anything for us during transition.

Have you taken it? Many women have had several benefits from taking it. It personally relaxes me, gives me bigger breasts, larger areolas, reduces bloating, normalizes appetite. Others have noted improved skin complexion, softer skin/hair, stronger nails, better sleep, improved mood, larger/fuller breasts that are less conical.

So, it does something, at least, for some of us. That is FACT. The only way to know for sure if it would be beneficial for you is to try it for awhile with your doctor's approval. Then, you will REALLY know if it will do anything for YOU. Until then, it's speculation and theory.

[KayXo]

Prometrium is bio identical. It also controls testosterone

As far as I know, it does very little to T (or androgens). Quite high doses need to be taken to reduce testis' production of androgens.

It is metabolized from pregnanalone

Pregnenolone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnenolone

controlling cholesterol

From everything I read, progesterone appears to have no effect on it or HDL, LDL. Whereas other progestins sometimes oppose oral estradiol's beneficial effects on lipids, progesterone does not. It's neutral.

The reason not many endos use it in mtf hrt is ignorance, and fear of side effects, all of which are from hydroxyprogesterone

I think you meant to say medroxyprogesterone acetate. 17alpha hydroxyprogesterone caproate is actually quite safe and devoid of side-effects typically seen with other progestins. It's used in women to prevent miscarriage.

or from taking sybthetic P as the body does not metabolize it the same way as bio identical (micronized progesterone).

Not so much in the way it metabolizes it but more how they affect the body because of their different molecular structure.

Progesterone further breaks down into various progestins, which play key roles in female development as well as balance.

Not really. It only breaks down, especially when taken orally, into allopregnanolone and deoxycorticosterone which sedate the body and increase water retention, respectively although the latter appears to be overturned by progesterone's diuretic properties.

It is mildy androgenic

It is not at all androgenic actually. If it were, it would not be prescribed to pregnant women to prevent miscarriage. If it were, the repercussions would be enormous on pregnant women whose progesterone levels skyrocket and also affects fetus. Pregnant women do not grow beards or become masculinized, nor does the female fetus which is also exposed to it.

Contraception. 1987 Oct;36(4):373-402.
Oral micronized progesterone. Bioavailability pharmacokinetics, pharmacological and therapeutic implications--a review.

"It also reproduces the anti-mineralocorticoid effect and has no androgenic action. No side effects have been reported as far as lipids profile, coagulation factors and blood pressure are concerned. Therefore oral micronized progesterone appears suitable for hormonal replacement therapy in various areas, essentially postmenopause therapy, premenstrual syndrome, correction of irregular cycles and pregnancy maintenance."

but plays a far auperior role then aldactone or estrogen in its anti androgenic functions.

Progesterone does NOT block androgen receptors, only slightly reduces LH and thus testis' production of androgens at doses typically prescribed to us orally and only VERY high supraphysiological doses have shown to inhibit conversion of T to DHT. Its anti-androgenic action seems to be quite weak. Spiro is a much stronger anti-androgen as it reduces synthesis of androgens, somewhat blocks androgen receptors and increases catabolization of androgens and conversion to estrogens. Estrogen reduces LH to a greater extent at the doses prescribed and appears to directly oppose androgenic effects in tissues.

If cortisol levels are low, or the adrenal glands are impeded, is when progesterone does bad things.

I think its glucocorticoid effects are quite weak. But, I agree that its antimineralocorticoid effect may interfere with adrenals so that if there is a problem in that area, this could cause complications.

[KayXo]

Look up beta 3, and 21ohp CAH, and get back to me on that. It can (in large amount) break down into androgens, which is why it is considered 'mildly' androgenic. However, the mild part is not bad, and more so, you *still* need androgen in your system as a mtf. You just do not want androgen dominance. It is for that reason many endos who do utilize it for mtf hrt wait about 1.5-2 years to rx it as part of hrt, as they want to be fully sure that estrogen is the dominant or those two, because otherwise, dhea and shbg have a field day with P.

This is quite erroneous. One simply needs to refer to pregnant females to see that progesterone is not androgenic or does not increase androgen levels significantly. If it were so, despite the very high levels of estradiol during pregnancy, the increase in androgen would surely significantly masculinize women and female fetuses. I take it every day and have not seen increased androgenization but only continued feminization. Several other transwomen have taken it daily with no androgenic repercussions whatsoever. The scientific literature also confirms it is not androgenic.

SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) does not bind progesterone. Only androgens and estrogens. Transcortin or corticosterone binding globulin binds/transports progesterone and corticosteroids. Interestingly, transcortin is produced in the liver and increased by estrogen, more so when taken orally so that if one takes estrogen non-orally, there would be more progesterone available. 

Apparently, progesterone can slightly raise SHBG when taken orally but the effect is much less than estrogen.