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The woes of passing well

Started by gothique11, July 20, 2007, 02:14:55 PM

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gothique11

I have other TS friends who get jealous of me; I get hit on, I don't get clocked, I am treated like a woman and no one questions my femininity (even those who know my past).

Although, I feel pretty lucky that I seem to pass so well, there are a whole other bunch of issues and expectations that are thrown on me, too. It gets hard sometimes because others don't see it. When you pass well, the expectations are very high. Getting hit on is nice in one way for the flattery, but on the other hand it is annoying.

I'm in a failing relationship with my girlfriend. I cheated on her, and what's worse is that it was way to easy. The guy had no clue about me, although we've known each other for a month. No idea. One he found out, it didn't change much. Maybe in a way if disbelief, I don't know. I hate that it was easy for me to attempt to fill in the void of my breaking heart with a brief moment of distraction. It wasn't the right thing to do, of course. It didn't get me anywhere. Although, I think it was the thing that finally pushed my gf and I to decide to work on our issues rather than to continue to drift apart. We're trying to work on things; we both love each other very deeply, but our relationship has been dead for months now. We both knew it would be a matter of time before one of us would do something like this.

I get sick of the jealousy. My life isn't any easier because I pass. It has its own set of problems. When the world sees you as a woman, you're expected live up to that. I've lived 27 years of my life in the wrong gender. Although I do reasonably well, the pressure isn't easy. I didn't have my teen-age girl years to learn, experiment, mess up, and explore myself as a woman.

I'm a woman, no doubt about it, but I'm in my own teen-age years trying to find my place in a woman's world. Who am I as a woman? At 28 going on 29, there's a sense that I should know a bit more at this age. But I don't have the advantage of living in the correct gender for long. It hasn't even been a full year yet. It's a stressful crash course.

Not only does jelousy come from other TS friends, but I've started to have girls get jelous of me. My own girlfriend, for example, has started to get jelous of my looks, my breast size, how much affection is thrown my way and other things like that.

What's worse is that I still have boy parts down there. It feels so discording. Every day gets harder and harder, I'm accepted more and more and I still have these damn boy parts dangling there to remind me that I'm not whole yet. That not-whole feeling tears me apart, even more so as the world around me sees me for the woman I am.

As for people just starting on the process, or having a difficult time passing. I feel for them. I know it's difficult. It's very hard and I understand that. I don't want to make it sound like I'm a princess whining.

Sure, there are a lot of great things about passing. A lot of wonderful things and respect that comes. It's a great feeling to be accepted as a woman with out doubt. It has it's advantages, but it also comes with it's own set of problems.

The discord between body parts and who you are becomes even greater. The expectations to know everything a woman my age should know becomes greater. And dealing with situations that you are not used and you're not sure how to handle it.

I used to walk down the streets with no problems at night, and now it is much scarier. I'm bothered a lot more. I'm not respected in the same way like I used to, all of a sudden my opinions don't matter. I'm treated like I don't know much -- people are surprised that I know stuff about computers, but then still don't listen and think that I must not know what I'm talking about.  I'm targeted a lot more. Hell, last year I had a man who tried to attempted to rape me. It's not easy being a woman, it's very difficult. This is the reality of womanhood.

And although I sound like that I'm bitching and complaining, I wouldn't trade being a woman. This is who I am. But the contrast and discord between a man and a woman's world is a lot more than I ever would have noticed. My gf didn't even realize it, she said plainly that she was used to her world and dealing with it. For me I think I'm still trying to find my way in a woman's world. And, because I pass I'm expected to  know it all when I don't.

I doubt I could of learned this before hand. I couldn't prepare to be a woman before going out there and being who I am.

I feel very honored to be a woman. And now I've started to connect with other women in a different way, in a way where we can share that common connection of what it means to be a woman. It's more than looking the part, it's more than body parts, it's more than acting -- it's something I can't even explain.

Somehow along the way I went from being seen as a male turning into a female, into being a female. Friends who have known me for years have started to connect with me in different ways, and they see me as much as a woman as they are.

Just one recent experience. I had a TS friend who started living full time several months ago. I had a drunk friend who came up to her and asked if she was a guy. It has disheartening for my TS friend and I talked to her and told her not to let those things bother her. I then talked to my drunk friend, who said that I was a woman without question, but my TS wasn't one yet.

It stopped me in my tracks. Somewhere along the line I entered womanhood. I then realized that passing isn't just looks, the way you act, how your hair is done, and how confident you are -- it's much more and on a deeper level of connection with other woman that I can't begin to explain. (My TS friend, btw, looks very good, and honestly, much looks better than me.)

But now, I realized that it's different; I'm on a different track than I was before. It's not easy. I'm glad that I'm here, but it's not easy. There are times that I don't know what to do, what to say, how to act. Now it's all different.


Anyway, sorry for the ramble, I just needed to get this out. I don't see too many people talk about this. Many passing issues are about looks, voice, hair, and so many similar things. Don't get me wrong, those are important things. But after all of that -- how do you deal with what is next?

--natalie

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Rachael

totally on your side here honey. I get this too sometimes. People are jelous of me, or dont offer support, even when i ask, as 'i pass, therefore i must be fine!' its heartbreaking to get crap in life, and from those who are meant to know how this feels.
and exactly, when your 'obviously' trans, theres less stress, while not ideal, it beats having to be perfect 24/7 to satisfy your own paranoia...
hey, even natal females get annoyed by being hit on most of the time :D
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asiangurliee

Before I transitioned, I've often wonder why there are not more guys who would act more feminine.

So someone might say feminism means equal right and that a woman can be just like a man, I disagree. If anyone has any practical experience of being a female , they should know that none of the equal rights change the way men and women interact with each other on a social level. And the way women talk to each other, that's just something *men* don't get. I love girl talks.

After I've been on HRT, I found how incredible it is with regard to the way men and women are treated in this society. You say that as a transsexual, there is a lot you don't know about being a woman that is true. I am sure that there are a lot of things we don't know, in terms of about being a woman and the many nuances and subtitles that we do *not* quite get yet.

If you think about it, a cisgender woman who has not been pregnant and never had a child will also not have the experience and knowledge that a mother would have. Being a mother, i am sure, is a new and special experience for any woman , not that I believe all women are naturally maternal.


I think cisgender women might not know how different women and men are treated in the society the way transsexual women do.


So while you might not have as much female experiences as you would like, I think you know something that a lot of women do not know.

Being a smart woman and being an empowered woman need a lot of work and it is not easy because I believe we live in a world that has always largely been created and defined by men and women have had many years of learning and socialization on how to be a smart and empowered woman in a man's world. It's hard enough to be a woman in a man's world, but it is harder to be raised as a man and than live as a woman in a man's world. 


It's a surreal experience to pass so well as a woman but still have the male part, it's very disorienting.  I enjoyed being hit on by guys as well, but it is also a scary thing to experience because I am just not used to be treated like the *object*. As a male, I was used to being the observer, not someone who is observed and I realize that while being hit on is very flattering, it can also be very oppressive and I believe this is one of the way women are being controlled in the public space.

Ands being a transsexual woman, especially one that is pre op or non op, there is an extra layer of hatred that makes misogyny even more dangerous.

Women are objectified in a way men are not, but transsexuals also face a lot of dehumanization, so adding all that, the social worth of being a transsexual woman is not high at all for a lot of people, especially striaght men. 
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Rachael

I went into the IT center the other day at university. my swipe card wouldnt open the gate to let me in. and if id been a male, id have had to go ask the security staff to let me in, sat there, ignoring me. but as a female, the guy came over and let me in, without my askingfor help when he saw i had trouble... society is so effing different from this side, its quite amazing to witness it all. One can never be prepared for being a woman in society, its something one has to experience and learn.

i wonder when this topic will turn into a 'OMG UR SO ELITEST CUS U THINK U PASS SO WELL' flame war?
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asiangurliee

Quote from: Rachael on July 20, 2007, 02:54:28 PM
I went into the IT center the other day at university. my swipe card wouldnt open the gate to let me in. and if id been a male, id have had to go ask the security staff to let me in, sat there, ignoring me. but as a female, the guy came over and let me in, without my askingfor help when he saw i had trouble... society is so effing different from this side, its quite amazing to witness it all. One can never be prepared for being a woman in society, its something one has to experience and learn.

i wonder when this topic will turn into a 'OMG UR SO ELITEST CUS U THINK U PASS SO WELL' flame war?

Oh my gosh. I so understand what you mean.

I was having a computer problem at the lab and I just totally played  the "I am a girl and I don't get this computer problem", and the guy just helped me out with everything and was being so nice to me and he was even blushing a bit.  This is something I clearly couldn't do if I was a guy. =p
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Rachael

NEED HELP? USE THE MAGIC TITS KEY TO UNLOCK YOUR PROBLEMS!  :angel:
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Rachael

hehehe. i get it when i go airsofting, thier like OMG girl, she must be new and need teaching which end of the gun is forwards andwhere the trigger is.
heck, last sunday i was bibleing down a road, and i hear a voice go:
'are you dead?'
me: no, why?
enemy: you are now
i turn to make the upcoming shot hurt less
and the guy just goes 'nah go on love, ill take that as a hit'
i was too 'aw chivelry' to turn and shoot him :P
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debisl

I think you are absolutly right. Passing for me was the easy part. The mental anguish of trying to be someone you were not born as is the hard part. I took me a lot of years to feel as if I was truly accepted or not. At first you are pretending to be something that you really are not. You look at everyone around you to see if they are trying to figure you out. You develope a complex very fast. Most times you are harded on yourself than others around you.
Passing I think is more of an attitude thing. It dosent matter what your looks are as long as you are comfortable with yourself. That being said you can't go places with a 5 o'clock shadow and hair on your legs and think it won't be noticed. If you try to look presentable most times you will be ok. Who ever you are with needs to be presentable too or it will draw attention to you eventualy. Be consertative at first, then start to venture out.
I have said it before and I will say it again. All a guy really needs to see is long hair and boobs and you are a woman in their eyes.

Deb
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Sophia

Quote from: Rachael on July 20, 2007, 03:13:27 PM
NEED HELP? USE THE MAGIC TITS KEY TO UNLOCK YOUR PROBLEMS!  :angel:

While I'm Machiavellian enough to take advantage of the boys' silly chivalry, it still does kind of irritate me that guys only do this for girls, instead of everyone helping everyone out.

But I figure if someone is going to aid me, and I actually need the help? I'll use it. I'm all about making my life easier at the expense of people I don't know or don't care about.

^^

Hehehehe I'm evil.
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Rachael

aye, totally, im so paranoid it hurts, i KNOW i pass, but i keep failing to see it.and its SO annoying. i mean, i can look like ->-bleeped-<- , and folk dont clock me, heck, ive bound my boobs, work a plain long sleve tee and guy jeans (baggy) before
and been called miss, but im constantly worrying that the looks i get arnt checking me out or just casual observation, im obsessed that thier reading me. *shrugs* i guess ill relax eventually. But for now its scary as hell.
agree on the cleavage thing... men see boobs and forget ALL else :P
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debisl

In the begining I was so parinoid also. Everywhere I turned I thought the worse. I was young though and I did survive. I mentioned before in a post that when I went out to clubs I would start drinking so that I really did not care what anyone thought. It got me by. Stupid thing to do, but you learn from your mistakes. Girl have I made some in my life.

Deb
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melissa90299

My drug counselor ---who is actually a better gender therapist than my gender therapist---says that I get a lot of grief from other women my age because I am so much more attractive than them and that I have this really large sexual aura plus large physical presence that intimidates people even though I feel inside like just a vulnerable little girl. (OMFG and this is without the new puppies)

I didn't always pass this flawlessly, it was a gradual process, so I had time to adjust, I remember being truly amazed when I went into the Social Security office to change my name (three years ago) I had a bunch of papers and kept dropping them. Each time, all the older Cuban men would scramble to help pick them up.

So now there are going to be a whole new set of problems with my new yet aging Amazon Goddess body, like what will I do to keep all the women form bothering me in the locker room. Oh woe is me.

Then there will be the men! OMFG! The men. I guess I will just have to kill myself, I am in such stress over this.
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LynnER

the woes of passing well......

Getting hit on when theres nothing you can really do about it...
Guys stammering and studdering and tripping over there own two feet just because you gave them a small smile...
the GG's you know saying "I hate you" cuz your so thin, cuz you can wear that, cuz your boobs are bigger than mine, cuz you shouldnt be upset about going up to a 5-7 from a 3-5......
Mechanics treating you like you know nothing, customers doing the same in technical fields, being cussed at when driveing, even though your the one driveing safely :P  Haveing to be affraid when walking alone at night... knowing that when your being assulted and cant run away that your allmost totaly helpless....
yeah... passing can be a real b**** sometimes... but I still wouldnt give it up.
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Rachael

most of this is just 'LIFE' for females, only the really passable ever experience this. Also there's an edge of attractiveness in here. i think we have two scales, passability, and attractiveness, both overlap towards the 80-20% points where people might know, or wonder, yet still find you pretty, then its into the not concidered territory. Then life is as we say, 'normal' we just didnt have the teenage years to come to grips :)
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Buffy

There is also the fact that women ARE treated differently.

Many people (mainly men) can be very condescending, arrogant and belittle even the most prettiest women, by what they say and do.

Also I very rarely get guys talk to my face, they normally start a conversation with my boobs.

Buffy
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Rachael

this happens, and it sucks. but its life, maybe because we havent grown up experienceing it, it feels different, or a culture shock, but i guess some of the more experienced hotties can confirm it gets easier?
PLEASE TELL ME IT GETS EASIER??????
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Rachael

yeah, i REALLY like boys... i want one (as a pet)
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katia

passing equals confidence, voice, attitude & style.  if a guy starts a conversation with your boobs, hold his chin up & make him look at you.  i'm so thankful that i don't like men.  :P
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Laura Eva B

#18
Quote from: melissa90299 on July 20, 2007, 05:08:40 PM
My drug counselor says that I get a lot of grief from other women my age because I am so much more attractive than them and that I have this really large sexual aura plus large physical presence that intimidates people even though I feel inside like just a vulnerable little girl.
I didn't always pass this flawlessly, it was a gradual process .....

Quotethe woes of passing well......
Getting hit on when theres nothing you can really do about it...
Guys stammering and studdering and tripping over there own two feet just because you gave them a small smile...the GG's you know saying "I hate you" cuz your so thin, cuz you can wear that, cuz your boobs are bigger than mine, cuz you shouldnt be upset about going up to a 5-7 from a 3-5...... 

Quotemost of this is just 'LIFE' for females, only the really passable ever experience this. Also there's an edge of attractiveness in here. i think we have two scales, passability, and attractiveness, both overlap towards the 80-20% points where people might know, or wonder, yet still find you pretty, then its into the not concidered territory. Then life is as we say, 'normal' we just didnt have the teenage years to come to grips
..... etc. etc. ....

How can I constructively comment in a thread designed for those who seem to have such a high opinion of their passability?

The rest of this post was so "butchered" by the moderators that I've deleted all just leaving my pics (which I guess speak louder than words ... even though unlike some others here I would never ever dream of claiming that I was remotely more attractive than other women of my age  :-\  !)

Note from Susan: For the above comment on this post she lost her ability to post for the next week.












Honest pics of me "warts and all", were others to be so forthright rather than bragging behind a mask of anonymity !

.... I'm just so happy to pass right now in my everyday life, never mind complaining about the disavantages of passing, most of which I can handle, and guess I have lots of good lines to put misogynists down  ;)  !

Laura x


edit - bit off color comment.
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gothique11

It's not that I don't enjoy "passing" -- a word I really don't like anyway, because who am I passing for anyway? I'm doing this for myself, the world can shove it up there a$$ for all I care. Why should I care if I pass their inspection?

I get along very well in the world. And that's great. But it's not all roses. I get sick of people thinking that passing is going to make things much easier. Sure, it's great and you have a lot more, but then you also have a lot more expectations.

I wouldn't go back, of course. I'm a woman and that's final. And as a woman, there's a lot to deal with. I think Rachel mentioned culture shock. It's a different world than the world I have been living in most of my life.

I'm not saying it's bad, because I enjoy being a woman. That's who I am. What I'm saying it that it comes with a whole bunch of other expectations. And when you "pass" you need to deal with that.

A lot of TS people focus on passing (maybe too much), but much of that is looks, voice and other things. Although that is all important, there's a lot more to it. You can look the look, walk the walk, but still not get the part. There's a whole female culture to get, and that can only be experienced over time. There's the common connection that females have -- that only comes in time.

I live with 3 gg's, and I'm very social. For me, the social part and being with other females has been the most important part of my transition. I meet so many TS people who don't go to much of a degree of socializing and really suffer because of it. Socialization is actually a lot more important than looks, having boobs, getting a vaginal installation, all of the FFS you can afford, and perfecting your voice. The other things help, but socializing by far is a very important factor.

A natel female is born into the a womans world, we are not. There's a life time of stuff they have learned and have been ingrained into them. Sadly, with mtf, we've had the male world drilled into our heads. How you look and sound isn't going to fix that, neither is a surgical operation. It takes being full-time, being social, and sticking your neck out lots to hope to get to the point where others girls your age are at.

In other words: it's a lot of work. A woman is much more than looks, voice, and body parts. Much, much more.


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