Transdrogynous?

[Gene]

Okay, so I'm a little complicated and easily confused. I've always identified more masculine than feminine (born female-bodied), and am in the process of starting my physical transition. I feel weird as I progress because when I started, my view of gender was very close to the binary concept that society pushed on us. But now that I have expanded my knowledge on the topic and realized that there's nothing wrong with accepting and embracing my femininity along with my masculinity, I feel like I can't say I'm 100% male or anything. I'd say it's probably more 70/30. I heard the term "transdrogynous", and if it's what I think it sounds like, it sounds like that is more of how I feel. I identify more masculine, and I feel that I should have been born into a male body; but I also love some aspects of my feminine self (maybe a form of gender Stockholm Syndrome?), and I have always had interests that were both masculine and feminine (again, the split is about 70/30). I'm also terrified of some of the effects T will have on me in the long run due to the family history of male health, so I don't want to do a lot for long periods of time. I know I still want to transition, but can I be on HRT until I'm androgynous, then live my life mixing the two genders in both expression and identity? Can I take T for a period, then stop and restart at my choosing? Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

[TerriT]

IDK. Maybe. I know there are MTF people who have taken low doses for extended periods of time and found a comfortable place to live but I honestly haven't got a clue how that works with T.

[suzifrommd]

Early on, I did a lot of trying to quantify how much male and how much female was in my identity. I always wanted to be a woman but I didn't "feel like I was one" whatever that means.

What I've learned from reading years of posts here, is that transgender feels differently to different people. For some people it comes as a certainty that they are, and perhaps always have been, a member of the gender opposite their birth sex. For others, we get a more androgynous feeling - that elements of male and female have mixed themselves in us.

My therapist has encouraged me to stop this sort of thinking. What's important, she tells me, is to find what style of presentation makes me feel the most true to myself. I gladly transitioned to living as a full-time female, despite feeling male some of the time.

One of the best decisions I've every made. Lets me be myself.

Good luck, Gene. I hope this helps.

[mythy]

omg transdrogynous is the best word and I am totally using it from now on.

Also, I have heard about assigned-female-at-birth people using T for a time and then stopping. I think that if you get to a point after taking T where you aren't comfortable with the changes happening you should stop. But whatever you do, tell your doctor. Don't just stop T without a doctor's advice and get your hormone levels checked.

[helen2010]

Gene

I am pretty sure that working with a good endo you can pretty much achieve any desired result.  While a lot of what you feel resonates with me I was born male with massive gd.   My endo has helped me silence the incessant noise with low dose hrt and it has taken me to a much better emotional place and controlled the extent and rate of physical change.

Given this I am pretty sure that you could achieve a similar result.  Well worth identifying a supportive endo and discussing it with them.    Ativan has posted a number of times a description of her relationship with her endo and the extent to which she is allowed to vary dosages to achieve her desired outcome.   It seems to be quite common now that informed consent has become the standard protocol

Safe travels

Aisla

[mm]

I don't have a real answer for you.  I do know that t is a very powerful hormone stronger than e is for MTF. FTM's only need to take t as MTF take E and something to stop production of t in their bodies.  I would think the effects you would see would depend on the dosage of t you take.  What changes would you like to see from being on t?

[Shantel]

Hi Gene!
     I coined the term "Transdrogynous" as it was most applicable to myself. I am male born but was headed at warp speed toward MtF when I had a bit of a meltdown and de-transitioned for two years and eventually had an epiphany and decided that I would be much happier living out my life as a non-binary type and thus came the term transdrogynous as it seemed most suitable for who I am. One needs to maintain a tough hide and an outrageous sense of humor because let's face it the term passing or passable is and never will be applicable here so one needs to delete that from their thoughts and personal vocabulary. On the other hand though it takes all that pressure off to make one's self passable on a day to day basis and as we know many MtF and FtM types fail miserably at it anyway so it seems to onlookers as no-one is trying to fool them, so many seem to accept it and move on with their own business rather than smirk, point and whisper and that sits well enough with me. So it's not about hormones though some can benefit by a little hormonal tweaking, but it's really more about attitude and personal presentation as you see fit.

[Natkat]

Okay, so I'm a little complicated and easily confused. I've always identified more masculine than feminine (born female-bodied), and am in the process of starting my physical transition. I feel weird as I progress because when I started, my view of gender was very close to the binary concept that society pushed on us. But now that I have expanded my knowledge on the topic and realized that there's nothing wrong with accepting and embracing my femininity along with my masculinity, I feel like I can't say I'm 100% male or anything. I'd say it's probably more 70/30. I heard the term "transdrogynous", and if it's what I think it sounds like, it sounds like that is more of how I feel. I identify more masculine, and I feel that I should have been born into a male body; but I also love some aspects of my feminine self (maybe a form of gender Stockholm Syndrome?), and I have always had interests that were both masculine and feminine (again, the split is about 70/30). I'm also terrified of some of the effects T will have on me in the long run due to the family history of male health, so I don't want to do a lot for long periods of time. I know I still want to transition, but can I be on HRT until I'm androgynous, then live my life mixing the two genders in both expression and identity? Can I take T for a period, then stop and restart at my choosing? Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Living as two gender is difficult in the binary world, but if you want to I think you can do so homones or not.
if you want homones to make you more androgynous I think you could start on a very low dose and stop when you felt satified. I done so and I know people who did so too, I am pretty andrognynous looking but I think I also been so, it something who depends from person to person, just remember the change you get on T, like voice and facial hair, is not something you can get rid off again, so if you are sensetive on these fact then I would think you should insteed focus on other aspects.
-
I like the word transandrogynous =) my story is rather simular to you, I been pretty binary as a kid but now I don't decribe myself as a binary person. I do live and identify as a guy but I don't want to be tired down by the binary expectations of what that is. I think alot of this also have to do with the fact that I got the chance to express myself more and learn more about myself.

 

[mandonlym]

I have this unusual thing where I blend in as a cis woman (call it passing then but I try not to) but identify as non-binary and have been on low-dose hormones for a few years now, the equivalent of what cis women use after menopause. So I don't necessarily think being androgynous has to mean not being perceived as cis, though I agree there's significant overlap.

I know very little about the effects of T, but I do think you should do what's comfortable for you and not let social pressure get in the way.

[Gene]

Hi Gene!
     I coined the term "Transdrogynous" as it was most applicable to myself. I am male born but was headed at warp speed toward MtF when I had a bit of a meltdown and de-transitioned for two years and eventually had an epiphany and decided that I would be much happier living out my life as a non-binary type and thus came the term transdrogynous as it seemed most suitable for who I am. One needs to maintain a tough hide and an outrageous sense of humor because let's face it the term passing or passable is and never will be applicable here so one needs to delete that from their thoughts and personal vocabulary. On the other hand though it takes all that pressure off to make one's self passable on a day to day basis and as we know many MtF and FtM types fail miserably at it anyway so it seems to onlookers as no-one is trying to fool them, so many seem to accept it and move on with their own business rather than smirk, point and whisper and that sits well enough with me. So it's not about hormones though some can benefit by a little hormonal tweaking, but it's really more about attitude and personal presentation as you see fit.

Thank you for your advice
I'm currently in the process of beginning my medical transition. I have top surgery coming up on June 10th which I'm intensely excited about, and I decided to start Androgel or another low-dose form of T afterwards. I figure I'm going to go with them until I'm comfortable with the changes that occur with my body. My husband is incredibly supportive of me while I figure out and explore my sense of identity and what I want to change with transitioning.

[Gene]

Living as two gender is difficult in the binary world, but if you want to I think you can do so homones or not.
if you want homones to make you more androgynous I think you could start on a very low dose and stop when you felt satified. I done so and I know people who did so too, I am pretty andrognynous looking but I think I also been so, it something who depends from person to person, just remember the change you get on T, like voice and facial hair, is not something you can get rid off again, so if you are sensetive on these fact then I would think you should insteed focus on other aspects.
-
I like the word transandrogynous =) my story is rather simular to you, I been pretty binary as a kid but now I don't decribe myself as a binary person. I do live and identify as a guy but I don't want to be tired down by the binary expectations of what that is. I think alot of this also have to do with the fact that I got the chance to express myself more and learn more about myself.

I agree. I'm going to try to start Androgel or another form of low-dose testosterone sometime after my top surgery this upcoming June and go with it until I'm satisfied with the changes. I'm glad that I have a kindred spirit in you

[Shantel]

Thank you for your advice
I'm currently in the process of beginning my medical transition. I have top surgery coming up on June 10th which I'm intensely excited about, and I decided to start Androgel or another low-dose form of T afterwards. I figure I'm going to go with them until I'm comfortable with the changes that occur with my body. My husband is incredibly supportive of me while I figure out and explore my sense of identity and what I want to change with transitioning.

You have a big extended family here, you'll get plenty of support I'm sure.

[makipu]

I am the same way as you Gene. I was never binary to begin with even before transitioning. That's why I started a very low dose of T gel that I can actually control. I definitely don't want to look like a stereotypical male.

[Bimmer Guy]

Hi, Gene.  Please remember that we can't pick and choose what masculine characteristics we get from T.  Additionally, you don't know ahead of time how quickly you will masculinize.  Low T does not work the same as low estrogen. Testosteron is a much more powerful hormone.  Guys can transition just as quickly on low dose as on regular dose, it just depends on the person.  I think it is important when you are looking for information on this, that you seek information on the effects of T specifically, as it is a whole different ball of wax than estrogen.

If you stop T your face will change back to a more feminine shape and your body fat will redistribute back to your hips and butt.  Your muscle mass will drop back to your original muscle mass.  You will continue with whatever body hair grew while you were on T (including facial, but it will become softer, especially if you stop before one year...but again it varies and no one can predict this).  Your downstairs growth will remain.  Your voice will not return to a female voice.  I have seen guy's voices change literally after their first T shot.

I think it is dangerous when someone uses T in hopes of presenting as more "androgynous", as you never know what you will get and most of the changes people would like to keep they lose when they stop T (masculine face, muscles, fat distribution).

You might appreciate some of the posts in this thread:  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,164250.0.html

Educate yourself before that first shot, my friend!   

[Gene]

Hi, Gene.  Please remember that we can't pick and choose what masculine characteristics we get from T.  Additionally, you don't know ahead of time how quickly you will masculinize.  Low T does not work the same as low estrogen. Testosteron is a much more powerful hormone.  Guys can transition just as quickly on low dose as on regular dose, it just depends on the person.  I think it is important when you are looking for information on this, that you seek information on the effects of T specifically, as it is a whole different ball of wax than estrogen.

If you stop T your face will change back to a more feminine shape and your body fat will redistribute back to your hips and butt.  Your muscle mass will drop back to your original muscle mass.  You will continue with whatever body hair grew while you were on T (including facial, but it will become softer, especially if you stop before one year...but again it varies and no one can predict this).  Your downstairs growth will remain.  Your voice will not return to a female voice.  I have seen guy's voices change literally after their first T shot.

I think it is dangerous when someone uses T in hopes of presenting as more "androgynous", as you never know what you will get and most of the changes people would like to keep they lose when they stop T (masculine face, muscles, fat distribution).

You might appreciate some of the posts in this thread:  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,164250.0.html

Educate yourself before that first shot, my friend!   

I appreciate the concern, but don't worry, I have done research and spoken with my therapist about my intentions as well. She specializes in transgender and gender non-conforming patients and has seen many variations of hormone therapy used to help patients achieve desired results (and I don't mean I think I pick and choose; I mean I get to decide when the scale has slid enough towards male and away from female for my personal preference). I will also be seeing a doctor who has specialized in FTM primary care, HRT, and has a long long history working with the trans* community, so my medical and hormonal care is in excellent hands. I've been researching this for well over 5 years and have long weighed the pros and cons before addressing the forums.

Additionally, while it could be possible, it's unrealistic to expect such drastic changes to occur so soon on a low dose. T is a powerful hormone that quickly overrides estrogen, but every incidence of guys starting T (even regular strength) that I can think of has not yielded immediate results like you speak of. Usually they're only blooming after the initial month or two.

Guys who stop T after figuring out where they were comfortable because of non-binary/androgynous identities are in no more danger when they stop T then binary-identified transguys who stop T for whatever reason they want. Of course there are risks and considerations to be heavily reflected on before reaching a decision.

[Gene]

I won't be using shots, either. I will be using the topical cream and yes, I have researched and educated myself on the difference.

[Bimmer Guy]

Hey, Gene, sorry if it seemed that I was being preachy (or something along those lines).  No disresepct meant.  I made the assumption that you were still gathering information on the subject due to the statements below in your opening post:

<<I know I still want to transition, but can I be on HRT until I'm androgynous, then live my life mixing the two genders in both expression and identity? Can I take T for a period, then stop and restart at my choosing? Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.>> Gene


As an aside, as a 85% male and a 15% gender neutral person (or something around those percentages), I do have a sense as to what it is feels like to not fit in the binary.  Some may find this strange, but I personally would find it easier to fit the binary.

[Gene]

Hey, Gene, sorry if it seemed that I was being preachy (or something along those lines).  No disresepct meant.  I made the assumption that you were still gathering information on the subject due to the statements below in your opening post:

<<I know I still want to transition, but can I be on HRT until I'm androgynous, then live my life mixing the two genders in both expression and identity? Can I take T for a period, then stop and restart at my choosing? Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.>> Gene


As an aside, as a 85% male and a 15% gender neutral person (or something around those percentages), I do have a sense as to what it is feels like to not fit in the binary.  Some may find this strange, but I personally would find it easier to fit the binary.

No problem. I'm sorry about snapping back, I tend to get defensive straight off. I was asking more or less because I'm still working out exactly how I feel about my gender identity (since posting, I realized I was pushing to enhance my femininity, and that in reality I am more of a 90/10 split of masculinity and femininity), and when I think too long and hard by myself I tend to think I'm not "trans enough". So it wasn't a matter of the effects that it would have on my body but a question of reassurance that I can proceed only at a rate comfortable to me. Hope that helps clarify. Thanks friend.

[Bimmer Guy]

No problem. I'm sorry about snapping back, I tend to get defensive straight off. I was asking more or less because I'm still working out exactly how I feel about my gender identity (since posting, I realized I was pushing to enhance my femininity, and that in reality I am more of a 90/10 split of masculinity and femininity), and when I think too long and hard by myself I tend to think I'm not "trans enough". So it wasn't a matter of the effects that it would have on my body but a question of reassurance that I can proceed only at a rate comfortable to me. Hope that helps clarify. Thanks friend.

No problem.  I totally get it. 

[Charr Lee]

I´m myself transandrogynous
i want to transitioning but not totally to the male side,but to a butch-androgyne side