Regarding responding to the experiences of marginalized persons...

[Jess42]

I guess what I'm trying to get through right now is the damage done by growing up female and living as female. Not that growing up male isn't damaging. I'm sure it is. But in a different way.

I feel like I came into this world with so much promise. I was early to do everything, one of those 'smart girls'. And then I got crushed by transness and femaleness. Under the bulldozer of sexism and gender. I'm trying now to pick the remnants of that child flower run over by the bulldozer. To see if there's anything left. And if I can put it back together if there is.

FA I just have to say something about this that you wrote that may give you a little different perspective on the damage you mention. Yeah it will be cliche' but it mostly is true. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Unfortunately a lot of us have done that first part by our own hands or vices. This doesn't need to happen, thought about it many times myself or didn't care what I took to make the pain go away. Fortunately those days are behind me now.

Transness growing up male or female and longing so badly to be the other sux. It is different between male and female but believe me, the pain is the same. I was so jealous of the little girls that got to wear long hair, cute little dresses and those little shoes with the strap thingies, While I had to have short hair, wear jeans or boy shorts and tshirts. Not to mention girls got to be daddy's little girl and I had to be daddy's little man. These things hurt me way more than all the scrapes and bruises and a couple of times stitches. This led to self loathing, anger, self hate, and just hating life in general in later years. Not to mention chemical dependencies just to make the pain go away if only for a little while. Yes this also led to me being a misfit in my school years which actually helped me out later on in school life and real life.

Fast forward to the present and looking back. All of these things and overcoming them has made me who I am today. Very open minded, extremely accepting and non judgemental of anyone other than myself. In other words all the pain and everything that goes with being trans has made me generally a better person, or at least I would like to think so anyway even though other's may disagree. Trial by fire I guess you could say.

FA, I don't know you personally only what you write, I believe since you made it this far you have tremedous strength and courage. We all have promise in this world, and that includes you. You are an administrator of a websight that about a year or so ago that lifted me out of a really low point. A lot of people I'm sure are inspired by this sight and don't feel quite so alone in the world because of it and what you do and what you have experienced. Anyway, I have faith in you and believe you are a lot stronger than what you give yourself credit for. A lot of times it is just changing the way we see things and a therapist will definately be able to help you with that.

[Inanna]

Yet, trans women seem to feel free to comment on an assigned girl's experience.

I can offer a pretty simple explanation. 

As little ones, many of us never perceived we were different from other girls aside from how we were allowed to express, and if we did perceive a difference, it wasn't paid much attention until later.  There was no "separation" between ourselves and them.   We always identified with exactly what they were.  We didn't think "assigned girl" and "trans girl".  They were girls.  We were girls.  What more to think about?

That feeling, even though it stems from a child's innocence of our world's ways, persists with us into adulthood in some form.  To really try to understand how assigned women were treated differently at a young age, we would first have to deeply, emotionally acknowledge a fundamental divide between us and them.  And that hurts... a lot. 

Irrational pain?  Of course, but it always is felt even if I try not to.

[Nero]

Yet, trans women seem to feel free to comment on an assigned girl's experience.

I can offer a pretty simple explanation. 

As little ones, many of us never perceived we were different from other girls aside from how we were allowed to express.  There was no "separation" between ourselves and them.   We always identified with exactly what they were.  We didn't think "assigned girl" and "trans girl".  They were girls.  We were girls.

That feeling, even though it stems from a child's innocence of our world's ways, persists with us into adulthood in some form.  To really try to understand how assigned women were treated differently at a young age, we would first have to emotionally acknowledge a fundamental divide between us and them.  And that hurts... a lot.  Irrational pain?  Of course, but it always is felt even if I try not to.

Oh. That makes sense. I've been trying to understand why this stuff seems to divide us. It's manufactured, societal difference though. If you were recognized as female at a young age, you'd have been treated differently. It's not a difference of being a girl vs not being one. But what society makes of it.

I think that I am quick to anger and feel hurt about these issues because they are so close to home. I feel, well, outraged at being assigned the 'inferior position' at birth. I feel hurt and angry at the discrepancies between how the boys were treated in school and how I was treated. By teachers, I mean.
I am probably irrevocably damaged by the constant focus on my outsides as a girl and young woman. Everybody constantly commenting saying I was beautiful, complimenting my body, etc. - all those words have turned to slaps. It hurts. a lot. I feel like I have been robbed of part of my humanity.

[Inanna]

Oh. That makes sense. I've been trying to understand why this stuff seems to divide us. It's manufactured, societal difference though. If you were recognized as female at a young age, you'd have been treated differently. It's not a difference of being a girl vs not being one. But what society makes of it.

Even so, we're given life just once and there's some basic need to feel my formative years weren't overly different from other girls.  The bigger of a difference I acknowledge between those set of experiences, the more alienated I feel from... I guess I would say an intrinsic bond passed between women.  I can't describe it but it feels instinctive and ancient, as much so as any feeling I've ever felt. 

I don't know if any other trans women feel this, or if any cis women do.  Do guys feel this, a sense of "brotherhood"?  I assume cis people in general would have a harder time detecting it, being in its belly.

I think that I am quick to anger and feel hurt about these issues because they are so close to home. I feel, well, outraged at being assigned the 'inferior position' at birth. I feel hurt and angry at the discrepancies between how the boys were treated in school and how I was treated. By teachers, I mean.
I am probably irrevocably damaged by the constant focus on my outsides as a girl and young woman. Everybody constantly commenting saying I was beautiful, complimenting my body, etc. - all those words have turned to slaps. It hurts. a lot. I feel like I have been robbed of part of my humanity.

I can't ever know what that was like, and I'm truly sorry you were forced to go through it for so many years on end.

Was being objectified and treated as a girl more painful than not being treated as a boy and valued?  And where would you draw the distinction between those two?

[blink]

Everyone has a different experience of life, but people forget this all the time. It causes a lot of misunderstanding and problems.

I have hyperacusis. A sound that one person might not pay attention to at all could be painfully loud to me. A person asked me once, incredulously, how could a noise possibly hurt. I asked them if it would hurt if someone blasted a trumpet in their ear. That got the point across. But until I could frame it in a way that related to what they experience, they didn't believe me about something as minor as "that hurts my ears".

Something as major as the differences in how people are treated based on perceived gender is awfully difficult to get across. This kind of discussion is important, so thanks for posting about it, FA.

[Nero]

Oh. That makes sense. I've been trying to understand why this stuff seems to divide us. It's manufactured, societal difference though. If you were recognized as female at a young age, you'd have been treated differently. It's not a difference of being a girl vs not being one. But what society makes of it.

Even so, we're given life just once and there's some basic need to feel my formative years weren't overly different from other girls.  The bigger of a difference I acknowledge between those set of experiences, the more alienated I feel from... I guess I would say an intrinsic bond passed between women.  I can't describe it but it feels instinctive and ancient, as much so as any feeling I've ever felt. 

I don't know if any other trans women feel this, or if any cis women do.  Do guys feel this, a sense of "brotherhood"?  I assume cis people in general would have a harder time detecting it, being in its belly.

That's really interesting. I think part of it comes from being marginalized. Marginalized groups tend to have this 'identity' others don't. Like there's really not much of a 'white identity'. Because it's sort of the default, majority position. Like men and whites can have kind of a 'brotherhood', us against them thing. But it's not quite the same because those aren't marginalized positions. It's sort of like - if you're female, a person of color, trans, gay, lesbian, etc - the world kind of puts this extra thing on you. And everyone sort of filters you through that extra lens. Like a white dude, well, he's not a 'white dude'. He's whoever he is. A black woman - well, she's a 'black woman'. She's whoever she is, but she's got these extra markers. You know what I mean?

So that's kind of what's weird about being trans. We're adding a trans marker. And trans women are gaining an additional marker. And trans guys are losing one.

So, I guess I can kind of understand where trans women are on this. Because the woman identity is more significant. It's a marker in a way being a guy isn't a marker.

I'll be back to finish.

[Inanna]

Everyone has a different experience of life, but people forget this all the time. It causes a lot of misunderstanding and problems.

I have hyperacusis. A sound that one person might not pay attention to at all could be painfully loud to me. A person asked me once, incredulously, how could a noise possibly hurt - I asked them if it would hurt if someone blasted a trumpet in their ear. That got the point across. But until I could frame it in a way that related to what they experience, they didn't believe me about something as minor as "that hurts my ears".

Something as major as the differences in how people are treated based on perceived gender is awfully difficult to get across. This kind of discussion is important, so thanks for posting about it, FA.

In the instance of trans people, it's more about understanding experiences that happened at a young age vs. the rest of our life.  While I can't understand early assigned female life, I'll never understand what's it's like to be a young adult male, middle aged man or old man.  All I have is my understanding of the male gender from the late teens and younger.  It's an incomplete picture that skews my concept of manhood.

Two groups that effectively switched places talking about experiences is a recipe for complication.

[Inanna]

That's really interesting. I think part of it comes from being marginalized. Marginalized groups tend to have this 'identity' others don't. Like there's really not much of a 'white identity'. Because it's sort of the default, majority position. Like men and whites can have kind of a 'brotherhood', us against them thing. But it's not quite the same because those aren't marginalized positions. It's sort of like - if you're female, a person of color, trans, gay, lesbian, etc - the world kind of puts this extra thing on you. And everyone sort of filters you through that extra lens. Like a white dude, well, he's not a 'white dude'. He's whoever he is. A black woman - well, she's a 'black woman'. She's whoever she is, but she's got these extra markers. You know what I mean?

So that's kind of what's weird about being trans. We're adding a trans marker. And trans women are gaining an additional marker. And trans guys are losing one.

So, I guess I can kind of understand where trans women are on this. Because the woman identity is more significant. It's a marker in a way being a guy isn't a marker.

I'll be back to finish.

While I definitely agree with that, it's instinctive too.  In tribal life (where evolution mostly took place), women tend to stick together.  It provides protection from rogue males and mutual protection and education of children. 

Such a fundamental difference in experience from all other women (except the tiny demographic of other trans women) makes me feel like an illegal immigrant to womanhood.  I didn't pay the price from the start.

[Dee Marshall]

Such a fundamental difference in experience from all other women (except the tiny demographic of other trans women) makes me feel like an illegal immigrant to womanhood.  I didn't pay the price from the start.

^ This. Like an illegal immigrant or maybe a spy. Question is, which side am I spying for? It's more than a bit uncomfortable.

[Nero]

While I definitely agree with that, it's instinctive too.  In tribal life (where evolution mostly took place), women tend to stick together.  It provides protection from rogue males and mutual protection and education of children. 

Such a fundamental difference in experience from all other women (except the tiny demographic of other trans women) makes me feel like an illegal immigrant to womanhood.  I didn't pay the price from the start.

Sorry it took me awhile to reply. ^ This post is powerful.

Um, I've been trying to put myself in trans women's shoes, you know thinking about how my experience isn't like cis males. And it isn't. But while I envy it, it doesn't have quite the same power I think. For two reasons I think:

• growing up female is a marginalized experience
• the beginning (girlhood, young womanhood, etc) of a woman's life is more celebrated than that of a male. Much more is made of a female's early years.

I'm not going to pretend it's not a loss and it doesn't matter. And the radfems have sure rammed this home as something to marginalize trans women ('born women', 'didn't experience growing up as a girl' etc). I think I get part of their point. I think sometimes cis women feel dismissed or hurt or angry because of what they went through. So, maybe someone who didn't go through that calling themselves a woman feels invalidating. They don't realize she wishes she could trade that experience for hers.

But if everyone would just listen to each other, as we are doing right now, this could be healed.

I can feel the sense of loss in your words Inanna. And feel really bad. But just because you didn't grow up female, doesn't make you an immigrant.

It's kind of like... have you ever seen the Blue Lagoon or something like that? Well, picture this:

A little girl is born on a remote island. All she knows is her family. No other people around. She knows she is female, but she doesn't know the cultural meanings of that. She's just got her mother and father (equal partners trying to survive). Okay, so one day in her teens, they are rescued.  And she has to go to school and everything. And learns she's a 'girl' and all the cultural baggage that goes with that.
She doesn't have female socialization really. So, okay she's a little different from the other girls. But maybe that's not a bad thing. The other girls by this time have learned their value is in their looks (except the fat or unattractive girls). They play dumb and focus on dieting and their looks. But the island girl sees that for the bull->-bleeped-<- it is. And eats a damn burger.

[HoneyStrums]

I know what your saying, FA

Your saying That somtimes your not talking about your internal perspective, but the outside worlds perspective off you.

And how you hate that when you talk about what its like to been seen as F your talking about just that, how F is treated by the outside world, but some people try to say it sucked becuse of your internal M perspective. When the truth is, somtimes it sucks just to be seen as F.

And when you try and point out that, that F is still ther in F tm and mt F and in cis F, some people argue with you by forgetting that you talking about what it WAS like for YOU in YOUR area at THAT time.

But I do understand how, some people might not get it. But I get it.

Talking about my exsperience sorry if its not in line with the subject.

But when I WAS younger and I fell, my farther used to luagth at me and tell me not to be such an ideot, but when my sister fell he would run over to her and ask if she was ok,comfort her and with all his love say "silly girl."
My mother would, come up to me cuddle me comfort me and say "try to be more carefull" and to my sister she would do the same the same thing except with a gender roll persuasion such as, climbing is for boys girls walk through gates.

So not only is my farther in some way informing my sister its ok for her to be silly, he's enforcing on me that a shouldn't. And my mother exspressed love either way, but was gender roll persuasive with my sister.

With that I'm not talking about my MtF perspective but pointing out the outside perspective of F and M, and the differing treatment both F and M received by both F an M in the same situation.

And, FA even if I'm wrong about this or anything, I need you just as much as anyone els to educate me. Because you have undoubtedly more exsperience of the outside world perspective of F then I do.

If you ever feel like nobody online at the time wants here your perspective PM me, I might not be online at the time, but you will definatly have one person who cares to hear it in me. No matter what ill always whan to hear your side, and even if I don't always agree with you it doesn't mean I don't want to hear your opinion.

[Inanna]

That's a quite an interesting analogy.  I would be curious what radfems think about it. 

I can certainly see the difference between being exposed to these standards early vs. later.  That which we learn in early childhood tends to "stick" in our subconscious.  I was raised southern baptist and drifted away in my teens.  Nonetheless, so much of it still persists in my psyche despite actively fighting it... such as being slightly nervous around "blasphemy", thinking of Catholics as not Christian, seeing Mormonism as a cult, afraid to use the expletive GD (or even just "god" in vain).  This does lessen gradually over the years, but like a limit in Calculus, never reaches its destination.

Applying that to gender, I can't imagine the residue of BS put into the minds of young children raised as female from birth. 

On a side note, I really love how Cosmos is showing all the amazing female scientists that pioneered the way in all fields, whose stories haven't been told to the mainstream until now.  It's an incredibly positive message for young girls.

[Nero]

I know what your saying, FA

Your saying That somtimes your not talking about your internal perspective, but the outside worlds perspective off you.

And how you hate that when you talk about what its like to been seen as F your talking about just that, how F is treated by the outside world, but some people try to say it sucked becuse of your internal M perspective. When the truth is, somtimes it sucks just to be seen as F.

And when you try and point out that, that F is still ther in F tm and mt F and in cis F, some people argue with you by forgetting that you talking about what it WAS like for YOU in YOUR area at THAT time.

But I do understand how, some people might not get it. But I get it.

Talking about my exsperience sorry if its not in line with the subject.

But when I WAS younger and I fell, my farther used to luagth at me and tell me not to be such an ideot, but when my sister fell he would run over to her and ask if she was ok,comfort her and with all his love say "silly girl."
My mother would, come up to me cuddle me comfort me and say "try to be more carefull" and to my sister she would do the same the same thing except with a gender roll persuasion such as, climbing is for boys girls walk through gates.

So not only is my farther in some way informing my sister its ok for her to be silly, he's enforcing on me that a shouldn't. And my mother exspressed love either way, but was gender roll persuasive with my sister.

With that I'm not talking about my MtF perspective but pointing out the outside perspective of F and M, and the differing treatment both F and M received by both F an M in the same situation.

And, FA even if I'm wrong about this or anything, I need you just as much as anyone els to educate me. Because you have undoubtedly more exsperience of the outside world perspective of F then I do.

If you ever feel like nobody online at the time wants here your perspective PM me, I might not be online at the time, but you will definatly have one person who cares to hear it in me. No matter what ill always whan to hear your side, and even if I don't always agree with you it doesn't mean I don't want to hear your opinion.

Thanks sweetie. That means a lot. I think that I get hurt and emotional over these discussions in part because aside from my mother, my best friends are trans women. I love trans women! I love you all! lol
Now not everyone fits this, of course, but I find trans women as a group to be extremely empathetic and caring. Maybe it's a trans thing mixed with a woman thing. I don't know.

Well, if you'll forgive me, I'll tell a little story of how I feel when this happens and I feel hurt and my trans women friends feel hurt by me and...

I had this very good friend. We had gone to school together, in ROTC together. One day we got into a disagreement. I'm strongly pro-choice. He wasn't. I ended up getting angry with him for having that position when he will never, ever know the fear of missing a period. Of a broken condom (well, he might, but not like that).

I felt (and still feel) that he was taking a position on something he will never have to deal with. He's never going to know that sinking feeling while praying desperately that a period will come. I've had pregnancy scares. He never will. I would not have been so angry with a woman who was pro-life. I was angry with him because it seemed so unfair for him to judge something he will never have to deal with. I know some will not agree with me or think I'm being unfair. But, it's a gut feeling. A gut rage. That he would think he could judge something he will never have to deal with.

Honestly, when men take this pro-life position, it seems disingenuous to me. They don't have a womb. This is my body and I find it highly offensive that someone who will never, ever have to deal with a pregnancy scare tell me or anyone else with a womb what we should do in that event.

Ok, I ended up ranting a bit. But the point was that this was the first ever 'row' or real disagreement between me and my best friend. Up to that point, we'd basically just been two dudes. Now, we were divided. And suddenly, I was playing the woman - concerned about the woman's side because of my biology. It was very upsetting and disconcerting for me. And now, I kind of feel the same way. Like some of my dearest friends and I are divided on an issue. An issue very personal to me. And once again, it feels like I am playing the woman's side. Because of my history. And I HATE that. I hate that women's issues have anything to do with me. I wish I could be my pro-life friend and all blase about it. But I can't because I have a womb.

[Inanna]

I've always been pro-choice as I believe in body autonomy (e.g. I'm against infant genital modifications for any reason), but many years ago during a conversation with the female family members, my sister asked why I was even discussing abortion and pregnancy since it would never pertain to me.  Though I told her women's reproductive rights needed to be defended by everyone, I remember feeling that it was like asking why a homeless person would care what CEOs did with their wealth.  Point-of-view is everything I suppose.

[Jill F]

FA, you just made my mind go here-

When I was in college, frathouse rapes were far too commonplace.  Sometimes drugs or alcohol were used on an unconscious women, sometimes it was just done by pure physical domination.  I knew a few who had to live through it and bear the emotional scars for life.   Some of these women and their friends formed a support group, which evolved into a bit of a vigilante movement called the Creative Underground Network of Truthful Sisters. (got that?)  Revenge was sworn on the offending frat boys, and frathouses were vandalized.  The town became covered with their calling card neon orange stickers.  One of them read, "BITE BACK HARD, TRUTHFUL SISTERS". So I stuck one on the bass guitar that I gigged with, punk rock style.  Two friends of mine that were affiliated with the group took me aside one day and asked me why in the hell I had that on my bass, and why I'd ever support their group that considered men the enemy.  They laughed at me, thinking I probably had no idea what was being implied.   I explained that I was on their side, but they couldn't take me seriously and even thought I might be mocking them.  It saddened me that when I tried to offer my support, it was ultimately rejected because I was perceived as a man, and therefore the enemy. 

I F***ING HATE rapists.

[Nero]

I've always been pro-choice as I believe in body autonomy (e.g. I'm against infant genital modifications for any reason), but many years ago during a conversation with the female family members, my sister asked why I was even discussing abortion and pregnancy since it would never pertain to me.  Though I told her women's reproductive rights needed to be defended by everyone, I remember feeling that it was like asking why a homeless person would care what CEOs did with their wealth.  Point-of-view is everything I suppose.

True. Maybe it seems unfair of me to be okay with men (or non womb bearing persons) expressing pro-choice views but not expressing the opposite. I guess because they're for the choice of women (or womb bearing persons) instead of taking that right away. I dunno. As forum admin, I probably shouldn't have revealed an opinion on this. But there was an article the other day (on here I think) talking about how reproductive rights have stuff in common with trans rights. And I liked that. Everyone should be master and ruler of their own body.

[Nero]

FA, you just made my mind go here-

When I was in college, frathouse rapes were far too commonplace.  Sometimes drugs or alcohol were used on an unconscious women, sometimes it was just done by pure physical domination.  I knew a few who had to live through it and bear the emotional scars for life.   Some of these women and their friends formed a support group, which evolved into a bit of a vigilante movement called the Creative Underground Network of Truthful Sisters. (got that?)  Revenge was sworn on the offending frat boys, and frathouses were vandalized.  The town became covered with their calling card neon orange stickers.  One of them read, "BITE BACK HARD, TRUTHFUL SISTERS". So I stuck one on the bass guitar that I gigged with, punk rock style.  Two friends of mine that were affiliated with the group took me aside one day and asked me why in the hell I had that on my bass, and why I'd ever support their group that considered men the enemy.  They laughed at me, thinking I probably had no idea what was being implied.   I explained that I was on their side, but they couldn't take me seriously and even thought I might be mocking them.  It saddened me that when I tried to offer my support, it was ultimately rejected because I was perceived as a man, and therefore the enemy. 

I F***ING HATE rapists.

Aww I love that they formed a group and fought back! But sad the way they treated you. 

Rapists are the same as murderers in my book.

[Inanna]

But there was an article the other day (on here I think) talking about how reproductive rights have stuff in common with trans rights. And I liked that. Everyone should be master and ruler of their own body.

Absolutely.  And that's why I'm glad to live in modern times, when we have more authority over our bodies than at any point in history.  I believe that as a teenage girl should have the right to an abortion, a trans teen should have the right to HRT.  I'm glad that the standards of care are moving in that direction.

This is way off topic, but it's interesting to speculate what the logical conclusion of body self-determination is in a world of seemingly endless medical improvement.

[Nero]

That's a quite an interesting analogy.  I would be curious what radfems think about it. 

I can certainly see the difference between being exposed to these standards early vs. later.  That which we learn in early childhood tends to "stick" in our subconscious.  I was raised southern baptist and drifted away in my teens.  Nonetheless, so much of it still persists in my psyche despite actively fighting it... such as being slightly nervous around "blasphemy", thinking of Catholics as not Christian, seeing Mormonism as a cult, afraid to use the expletive GD (or even just "god" in vain).  This does lessen gradually over the years, but like a limit in Calculus, never reaches its destination.

Applying that to gender, I can't imagine the residue of BS put into the minds of young children raised as female from birth. 

On a side note, I really love how Cosmos is showing all the amazing female scientists that pioneered the way in all fields, whose stories haven't been told to the mainstream until now.  It's an incredibly positive message for young girls.

Hmm Well, a point I forgot in my little island girl story was that she would never be regarded as less than a woman because of her lack of socialization. Nobody would have ever questioned her. She's a woman as much as all the girls born there. I mean what is a girl? Is she a girl because of how she grew up? Don't know if you've heard of the boy in the box case. (unidentified boy in a box in the 50s or was it 60s)

Anyway, there was some speculation since his hair had been cut and nobody recognized him that he may have been raised as a girl. And that they cut his hair after death to cover this up. But anyway, if there was a boy (a cis boy with a male brain) raised as a girl, appearing to all the world as a girl, he would have gone through female socialization too. But he's a boy. I think that socialization is important, but it's not gender.

I know that this argument has been used against trans women, especially with the Mich fest thing. The whole WBW/girlhood thing. Well, I can understand that people who experienced a 'girlhood' want to heal from that. I disagree that women without that experience can't help with that. I mean, I'm sure that trans women have a similar childhood in common they might need help with as well.

[sad panda]

I remember an older woman I knew ( I used to have a bunch of adult friends when i was younger for some reason). Doesn't matter who she is, let's call her Cassie.

Cassie was majorly a victim of being a woman. She grew up alone, the youngest child, shy and not approachable, didn't have many friends. She suffered from neglect but really what she was suffering from was so much deeper. She was being raped. For years, over and over again by her own uncle. She stumbled through her teens, alone and untreated for severe ptsd among others, and eventually she was raped again. Random incident. Several guys, cuz she made the mistake of going out alone at night. She had a brief period of clarity in college, and she got a degree, but she couldn't cope and never got a job in her field. She met a guy though, a guy who could never really love her, and moved in with him and became a housewife. Her life since has just been an issue of coping with the past and staying alive, she hasn't really made any progress. She spends days in dissociative fogs, she's ruined in self-inflicted scars, she has a history of suicide attempts and lives in a cycle of guilt about it and really hinestly wanting to try again. She can't enjoy life. She never will know how. She will always long to finally die and be free of it. She will always be haunted by this past, and sad thing is, no matter what anyone says, it's a past she probably wouldn't have had as a man, (and i say that as a male survivor of rape, it just doesn't happen that often to us, and even when it does, it's usually not the same) and there's nothing she could do to to avoid it, and nothing she did to deserve it. This story is not really rare. It's devastatingly common. All cuz some guy wanted to get off.

I remember hearing a statistic that something like 50% of men admitted anonymously that they would rape a woman if there was absolutely no chance of getting caught. Well, there ya have it. it's just gross. It's so messed up. I can't even begin to process it.