Orientation issues and beyond...

[Kylie]

I suspect that hormones may play a role in people's switch but a lot of it may come from some internal mental switches too.  Like the idea that your social role is different and that opens doors.  The thing is hrt never worked to change the sexuality of gay people, so I would think the reasoning of these switches would likely lie elsewhere or at least be a mixture of things.  If it is purely hrt, why does it work on us but not gay people?  It's a confusing topic.

Op, go with the flow.  Sexuality is usually seen as a big thing in this world, but it really shouldn't be.  We should all just like who we like and leave it at that.  Straight, gay or bi are just labels to show what your tastes or preferences are.  None are more valid than the other.  Just have fun discovering yourself in the process and be true to your heart.  In any case, your situation seems to be very common in the trans community.  Many start off exclusive lesbian only to turn out bi or even straight. So, I wouldn't worry about it.

I agree with all of this although since our brains and receptors are often different from gay people, I could see how it could maybe have an effect on attraction.  I think more than anything else, the context of our orientation changes, and we are finally able to feel comfortable with our roles one way or another.  (Or at least that is the way I feel it will be). 

[Rachel]

I am bi and have been in relationships with males and females.

I am married; if my wife and I were to part I most likely would have a boyfriend. My wife is my best friend and we are working hard to remain married.

Wherever your sexuality and attraction takes you I think being with someone you care about and they care about you is the most important thing in a relationship.

My first relationship was with a guy (in high school) and I thought I was gay but then found out I did not fit the "gay male" stereotype (in the early 80's). I wanted a relationship and not just a lot of sex (submissive) with a lot of different guys. It is fun but not fulfilling.

In my teens, my first male kiss felt very good and I enjoyed it. It was natural, tender and electrifying. I followed with oral which was a dream, an intimacy and a feeling of closeness with my partner. We had sex many times over 4 years and we became very close.

HRT has not changed this; although, I now have a very good understanding of how I am (took a long time ).  I accept who I am and know there are other people just like me. 

[Jane's Sweet Refrain]

The thing is hrt never worked to change the sexuality of gay people, so I would think the reasoning of these switches would likely lie elsewhere or at least be a mixture of things.  If it is purely hrt, why does it work on us but not gay people?  It's a confusing topic.

Your advice about going with the flow is very good, but I feel like I have to address the point about why hormone therapy doesn't change sexuality in gay people but can in transwomen. I don't know of any real studies have been done, so I'll have to be deductive. Gay cisgender adults have already gone through puberty, a time when their sexuality probably became solidified or at least intensified. Administering more of the same hormone that was dominant when the sexuality of gay adults was coming together would not really do anything to change it. But transwomen are receiving cross-sex hormones and are essentially going through another puberty, a puberty that is much different from the one they went through before. The dice are being rolled again. Yes, shifting context might play a role in making latent sexuality more comfortable, but it just doesn't negate the possibility that the object of sexual attraction might change with the rewiring that occurs. 

Just something to think more about.

[myraey]

I have been questioning who i am attracted to. Currently I identify as bi. In the beginning I was exclusively attracted to girls while I was identifying as male. But I can say all the parts of this equation were there hiding under the surface. I always envied women and was generally curious about them. Attractive females I was jealous. Thinking what is curiosity , or envy about stuff they have and I didn't vs attraction was a question. I never got that with males. But even before some interesting attractive handsome men made me tingle just a tiniest bit for a tenth of a second. At that time I never thought about them as possible romantic or sexual partners in any way. Subconsciously I did not allow myself to. The further developments have come from bigger self acceptance and a lot of thinking.

I grew up male and was socialized as such. Heterosexuality was the assumption. The place I grew up was generally very much accepting if not tolerant. There were some exceptions of course. I am still young , but I think a lot has changed for the better just in the last 10 years or so.

Having issues about gender and a male body also makes this attraction thing harder. Feeling of having the wrong body is a lot of baggage when dealing with dating. My first (short) relationship was with a female with me as a male. I did not come out to her about any of my gender issues. I felt like an actor , not really intimate and like I felt I was just hiding a big part of myself. Well I need to figure out myself before venturing into any relationships. Now gay (as a male) relationships have the same problem , and that whole business is a lot more difficult too.

I have come a long way. Being attracted to men (or not) is not that a big of a deal in the end. The sky did not fall.

[Ltl89]

I agree with all of this although since our brains and receptors are often different from gay people, I could see how it could maybe have an effect on attraction.  I think more than anything else, the context of our orientation changes, and we are finally able to feel comfortable with our roles one way or another.  (Or at least that is the way I feel it will be).

I'm not really convinced our brains are all that different.  A lot of the studies that suggest that show brain images from transexuals that have already begun hrt, right?  Couldn't it be that the hormones have had impacts on the brain rather than our brains differed from birth?  To be honest, I know very little of the subject and don't care either way.  I just feel weird attributing a gender to a brain rather than looking at all the factors that make a person who they are.  I'm sure brain sex is real to a degree, but I don't really know what impact that has on transexualism and/or sexuality.  Again, I'm a bit ignorant on the subject, so this is by no means a definitive statement.

Your advice about going with the flow is very good, but I feel like I have to address the point about why hormone therapy doesn't change sexuality in gay people but can in transwomen. I don't know of any real studies have been done, so I'll have to be deductive. Gay cisgender adults have already gone through puberty, a time when their sexuality probably became solidified or at least intensified. Administering more of the same hormone that was dominant when the sexuality of gay adults was coming together would not really do anything to change it. But transwomen are receiving cross-sex hormones and are essentially going through another puberty, a puberty that is much different from the one they went through before. The dice are being rolled again. Yes, shifting context might play a role in making latent sexuality more comfortable, but it just doesn't negate the possibility that the object of sexual attraction might change with the rewiring that occurs. 

Just something to think more about.

That's true.  I've just always heard that hormones levels don't predict one's sexuality, so it seems weird for that to be the case with us.  Sure there are some studies that find corelations with hormone levels and sexuality, but it doesn't appear to be conclusive in any way.  But you are right, we are sort of different from the cis community given our method of treatment.  I'm just not sure if that is all due to hormones or other factors.  In any case, it's a bit hard for me to understand because I never went through a shift myself.   Still, it does happen, for whatever reason, for many people in our community.

[apriljo]

I wanted to post here as someone who was attracted to men before I accepted myself and started on my gender path. I have since mostly lost interest in men and found myself desiring other women. It's not really that I've lost all attraction to men. There are still guys I come across that get me going. It's just I've discovered a new attraction and desire for women. It can be very surreal and weird to think about it sometimes, since I lived so long in my past life, but I try not to analyse it too much. I'm identifying as pansexual these days and lean towards female-identified individuals.

[Kylie]

I'm not really convinced our brains are all that different.  A lot of the studies that suggest that show brain images from transexuals that have already begun hrt, right?  Couldn't it be that the hormones have had impacts on the brain rather than our brains differed from birth?  To be honest, I know very little of the subject and don't care either way.  I just feel weird attributing a gender to a brain rather than looking at all the factors that make a person who they are.  I'm sure brain sex is real to a degree, but I don't really know what impact that has on transexualism and/or sexuality.  Again, I'm a bit ignorant on the subject, so this is by no means a definitive statement.

Yeah, I am not really up on the studies so I can't speak with any authority either.  I get what you are saying, but I do think that it is reasonable to assume that hormones may play a role though.  I mean, every fetus begins as female, and either stays female or progresses to male depending on hormone action or insensitivity.  If there is a lack of hormones or an insensitivity during certain periods, it causes a physical intersex "birth defect", I don't see why that couldn't happen at some stage with the brain as well.  I know I have a minor intersex "birth defect" and have often wondered if the same hormone insensitivities that caused my incomplete male development play a role in my gender identity being female.  I just can't see anything in my "experience" that could have lead to any of this for me, so I tend to look for scientific validation.  I wish i didn't care so much, but I am one of those people who always wants an answer.  Everyone is different 

[BunnyBee]

I am not surprised that hormones work one way on our brains and another on cis brains, because it's apples and oranges.  If you give testosterone to a gay man, his brain already is on testosterone, so why would it make any difference for him?

There are both lesbian trans and cis women, so there must be more to it that estrogen makes you always be attracted to men.  I think this idea that a lot of us find our orientation shifting has more to do with the new clarity that comes with coming out of denial.  Barriers fall away, smoke clears, and suddenly you make different conclusions about the makeup of your reality.

Regarding the studies, it is early days, so you can't really draw any concrete conclusions about what they have found, but just in case you are curious, they have done different kinds of studies on both pre and post HRT brains and have found very similar things.  Our brains appear to be structurally different from cis male brains.  These are studies that have been peer reviewed and most of them I believe have been repeated by other labs, so it seems to be good science.  I think there are both potentially good and bad implications, but we will have to wait to see, because it is so early in the process.  I think whatever the case, we should never mistrust knowledge.  The minute you start doing that is the minute you start diverging from the truth and into lala land.

[stephaniec]

my therapist says that my brain is hard wired and that sounds good to me.

[Aquarelle]

Aquerelle,

I just want to validate your experience as someone who's orientation flipped on hrt. I would not have considered myself bisexual before treatment. I was uncomfortable attracted to cisgender women, but exclusively so. The attraction to men, when it came eight months in, was, anatomically speaking, farther north, in the pit of my belly, in the center of my being. Almost painful, but beautifully so. It fluttered and undulated madly. And, for me,  for the first time it felt right.

I went on a dating site in mid June of 2013 (where I didn't disclose being trangender), began conversing with a man (told him in the first message back to him) and had a date with him July 1 of last year. Like you, I was scared of what it would be like to touch him or have him touch me. I had seen pictures he had taken of himself on beach vacation a couple of weeks before and thought, "Can I really touch a hairy chest?" (For the record, the answer is an enthusiastic "yes.")

But once on the date, I felt like falling into the rhythms of being a woman with a man were quite easy and quite natural. My first kiss, and I remember it vividly in the parking lot of The Container Store near the restaurant where we ate and the outdoor mall we walked around afterwards, felt so wonderful.

Waiting to be kissed, I discovered, is not a passive role at all, just a more subtle mix of inviting eyes, soft touches, and leanings that signal the go-ahead for men. The first kiss with men, likewise, involves a similar take and give. He establishes the kiss, and the woman gently asserts her presence back to him. I felt like I knew instinctually exactly when and how to touch a man's neck or the back of his head gently and sense when to open my eyes to take in his gaze. It's sweet and hot all at once. So, yes, if you're into fellas, if will feel right.

And that's the great thing about transitioning: we have discovered who we are. We no longer have to hide, even from ourselves. If something doesn't feel right, we simply don't have to do it.

Thank you for sharing this
It was just the explanation I needed and you've managed to describe it in a way, that gave me goose bumps

It is true for me, that such sort of attraction was present in me for a long time, but it was like a tiny voice somewhere in me and everytime I felt it, I did my best to suffocate it, because it was "inappropriate" and therefore forbidden. Seems logical, that HRT just "unlocks" this feature and lead to some sort of orientation-shift... At least for me it sounds reasonable.

[Ltl89]

I am not surprised that hormones work one way on our brains and another on cis brains, because it's apples and oranges.  If you give testosterone to a gay man, his brain already is on testosterone, so why would it make any difference for him?

There are both lesbian trans and cis women, so there must be more to it that estrogen makes you always be attracted to men.  I think this idea that a lot of us find our orientation shifting has more to do with the new clarity that comes with coming out of denial.  Barriers fall away, smoke clears, and suddenly you make different conclusions about the makeup of your reality.

Regarding the studies, it is early days, so you can't really draw any concrete conclusions about what they have found, but just in case you are curious, they have done different kinds of studies on both pre and post HRT brains and have found very similar things.  Our brains appear to be structurally different from cis male brains.  These are studies that have been peer reviewed and most of them I believe have been repeated by other labs, so it seems to be good science.  I think there are both potentially good and bad implications, but we will have to wait to see, because it is so early in the process.  I think whatever the case, we should never mistrust knowledge.  The minute you start doing that is the minute you start diverging from the truth and into lala land.

That's true, but it's far from conclusive at this point, right?  Plus, even if it were the case for some of us, does that disprove other theories being the cause for other individuals in the community?  There are so many unanswered questions.  I feel the brain studies are being used for well meaning political purposes, but in reality many things are still up in the air.  I will say, though, that I had no idea that the showed the linking results on pre-hrt brains.  That's pretty interesting.   And for what it's worth, it could explain why most of us have had these feelings for so long without any change. 

As for hrt and sexuality, I agree with that.  It seems strange that it alone would be the thing to alter someone's sexuality.  Then again, it happens for many people, so I can't dismiss something that I never experienced directly.

[BunnyBee]

Right.  I don't think we want to over-commit to results that really are still in the stage of, oh this merits more research.  But also, there are things being learned that we prob shouldn't just ignore.

[Jess42]

All I can say is if you are curious, give it a go. Don't limit yourself because you may think that you are this or that or any other label. You may be surprised.