life as a man, then a woman, then a man again

[Tiffany]

http://vantagepoint.com.sg/2013/09/life-as-a-man-womanand-man-again/

he say this : "Saw this online... Not trying to tell you to believe in Jesus or read the bible. But to tell you that there are cases wherever it could be solve?"

My friend posted this to me?? what is he trying to say?? any opinion, ladies here??

[stephaniec]

I really can only guess what this person is trying to say to you, but I'll just speak for my self . My love of Jesus is unfathomable . Through Jesus I've had the courage to be who I  am. I'm transgender.

[ErinWDK]

Tiffany,

This is a message that is trying to use Scripture to say being trans* is flat out wrong.  You will find a number of conservative "Christians" take this point, and it is flat out against what Christianity is all about.

The key point in the article is the author coming to understand the "true" meaning of Deuteronomy 22:5 without a clue as to the Hebrew original or how it was translated.  To figure that out you will need to use the king James Bible and a Strong's Concordance.  Strong's tells what the Hebrew words are, and what they mean.  "Man" as used in that verse actually means warrior.  So the problem is a woman dressing as a warrior (a specific form of Cannanite idol worship) or a warrior dressing as a woman (bronze age draft dodging).  That verse without a good understanding of Hebrew is a bit perplexing as male and female clothing was not all that much different way back when it was written.

That verse has been used to beat me up for years.  Finding the real meaning has sort of helped to set me free.  It would seem your friend is trying to do the opposite...

Hang in there, and keep searching!


Erin

[Tiffany]

thanks everyone for the reply. i wonder how should i reply to him. he is one of my good friend. he's a christian, i am not.

[stephaniec]

I don't know how to respond to this person because the likelihood of him understanding is pretty much non existent . All I can say is that the meaning of Christ is love.

[Beverly]

http://vantagepoint.com.sg/2013/09/life-as-a-man-womanand-man-again/

he say this : "Saw this online... Not trying to tell you to believe in Jesus or read the bible. But to tell you that there are cases wherever it could be solve?"

Some people detransition. It happens.

Also as past posts on here show, some of these articles in the deeply conservative religious outlets are simply made up. The "bathroom panic" articles are particularly known for it.

My friend posted this to me?? what is he trying to say?? any opinion, ladies here??

My opinion? OK - evangelical religion is a far worse illness than Gender Dysphoria.

[ErinWDK]

Tiffany,

The approach to try and reason with your friend is to see if he will come to an agreement with you that you can disagree on this topic.  I am taking this route with a friend, and it is a rocky road indeed - but the road does go forward and the frienship continues.

HTH

Good luck!


Erin

[Sephirah]

thanks everyone for the reply. i wonder how should i reply to him. he is one of my good friend. he's a christian, i am not.

Just say that you aren't the person in the article. You've come to your own conclusions about your own life, your own circumstances, and you would like for him to respect your decisions, as a friend. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for all. Everyone finds their own path in life, and has to walk it themselves. If he doesn't want to accept that, or understand it, that isn't on you, hon. You do what you have to do to make the best life for yourself that you can. You don't owe anything to anyone. Be that explanation or justification. And if they believe who you are, or how you want to be in your life is somehow an affront to what they believe in... that's their issue to come to terms with. You don't have to prove you have the right to be you. You just go ahead and do it.

[SandraB]

Hahaha...funny thought here...first one that came to mind for some reason was Chartlon Heston...who not only played Moses and a slew of other biblical people...and to take his words...the ones that first came to my mind...spoken only as Moses would..."You can pry those BLUE PILLS from my cold dead hands!" Now what would Jesus say to that I wonder?
(Sorry to offend anyone.)

[Foxglove]

Two interesting statements, one right after the other, that I've noted in this person's testimony: this,

29 years have passed. I still struggle, but I am not alone in my trials and temptations.

followed by this,

Through it all, I've found an inner peace that surpasses human understanding.

"Yes, God has helped me to overcome my inner demons.  I've found inner peace, though after 29 years, true, I still have my struggles, my trials and temptations."

In other words, he hasn't stopped being trans.  He's just gone underground, repressed his natural instincts and needs.  A lot of us know that story.

I will confess that this makes me quite angry, the reason being that it's this sort of testimony that our religious enemies use to "prove" that we could stop being trans if we wanted to.  (And to the religious people on this forum, please don't take offense.  Obviously, I'm not saying that all religious people are our enemies.  What I mean is that we have enemies, some of whom are religious.  Our irreligious enemies use somewhat different strategies to attack us.)

The truth, as we all know, is that if you're trans, you're trans, and you're never going to stop being trans.  The question is how you're going to deal with it.

I'm not religious myself, so I don't pretend to know the mind of God, but from what I've observed in my time on this earth, I've come to the conclusion that God doesn't care.  Given that, in theory, he's omniscient, he'll know that if we're trans, it's not our doing.  And given that, in theory, he's omnipotent, if he disliked us so much, he could simply make us cis like everybody else.  It seems distinctly odd to me that a God who, in theory, loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son, would condemn me to everlasting hell for something he knows isn't my fault and that he himself could in any case have prevented if he had wanted to.

This fellow claims that God has helped him overcome his trans nature.  In fact, all he's saying is that God has helped him repress that trans nature for 29 years.  I repressed my trans nature for about twice 29 years, and I didn't need any God to help me do that.  I did it all by my little self.

Those of us who've repressed our trans nature for so many years know that it doesn't bring you any "peace that surpasses human understanding."  If it did, you wouldn't be having any struggles, trials and temptations.  You wouldn't be experiencing such misery.  Peace is peace.  I.e., you're at peace, not in the midst of a great struggle.

If you want to repress your trans nature, it's up to you.  Your life, your choice.  But at least let's be honest about what we're doing.  I myself am very tired of people, religious or otherwise, telling lies about ->-bleeped-<- because such lies hurt transgender people.

And that's the end of this rant.  I seriously hope I haven't offended anybody.  That wasn't my intention.  I'm just telling it like I see it.

Love and best wishes to everyone,
Foxglove

[Tiffany]

Two interesting statements, one right after the other, that I've noted in this person's testimony: this,

29 years have passed. I still struggle, but I am not alone in my trials and temptations.

followed by this,

Through it all, I've found an inner peace that surpasses human understanding.

"Yes, God has helped me to overcome my inner demons.  I've found inner peace, though after 29 years, true, I still have my struggles, my trials and temptations."

In other words, he hasn't stopped being trans.  He's just gone underground, repressed his natural instincts and needs.  A lot of us know that story.

I will confess that this makes me quite angry, the reason being that it's this sort of testimony that our religious enemies use to "prove" that we could stop being trans if we wanted to.  (And to the religious people on this forum, please don't take offense.  Obviously, I'm not saying that all religious people are our enemies.  What I mean is that we have enemies, some of whom are religious.  Our irreligious enemies use somewhat different strategies to attack us.)

The truth, as we all know, is that if you're trans, you're trans, and you're never going to stop being trans.  The question is how you're going to deal with it.

I'm not religious myself, so I don't pretend to know the mind of God, but from what I've observed in my time on this earth, I've come to the conclusion that God doesn't care.  Given that, in theory, he's omniscient, he'll know that if we're trans, it's not our doing.  And given that, in theory, he's omnipotent, if he disliked us so much, he could simply make us cis like everybody else.  It seems distinctly odd to me that a God who, in theory, loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son, would condemn me to everlasting hell for something he knows isn't my fault and that he himself could in any case have prevented if he had wanted to.

This fellow claims that God has helped him overcome his trans nature.  In fact, all he's saying is that God has helped him repress that trans nature for 29 years.  I repressed my trans nature for about twice 29 years, and I didn't need any God to help me do that.  I did it all by my little self.

Those of us who've repressed our trans nature for so many years know that it doesn't bring you any "peace that surpasses human understanding."  If it did, you wouldn't be having any struggles, trials and temptations.  You wouldn't be experiencing such misery.  Peace is peace.  I.e., you're at peace, not in the midst of a great struggle.

If you want to repress your trans nature, it's up to you.  Your life, your choice.  But at least let's be honest about what we're doing.  I myself am very tired of people, religious or otherwise, telling lies about ->-bleeped-<- because such lies hurt transgender people.

And that's the end of this rant.  I seriously hope I haven't offended anybody.  That wasn't my intention.  I'm just telling it like I see it.

Love and best wishes to everyone,
Foxglove

thanks foxglove for the reply. you have made a good point, i have suppress myself for 30 years too.

[Allyda]

I agree with Foxglove on this matter. I don't believe God will not punish me for something that isn't my fault. I'm very spiritual and very strongly believe in God, and have faith that God is all loving.

!!Trigger Warning!! Many religous people make the mistake of taking the Bible literally. Though an account of events and miracles that happened during Biblical times, the Bible was translated by, and written by men. God is perfect, men are not. Therefore, the Bible is not meant to be taken Literally.

Ally

[ashrock]

To be honest, I'm not sure if the author chose that title, but it seems sensational and not very apt to the story as the author doesn't really seem to relate pretransition to being a man. As a christian myself, the verse referred to has actually led me on a different tact, rather like above post, I look to what is the biblical definition of a man? Could it not be that as an effeminate person, it might actually be barring me from wearing mens clothes, and acting against my nature to attempt to be perceived as manly? Its a precept that isn't well defined in the context of the verse as it is presented in english translations.  It should also be noted that no punishment was defined even in the law for this, and directly following it offers stoning a nonvirgin woman for entering into a marriage as a punishment.

[Alaia]

I laugh any time someone brings up Deuteronomy 22:5. All I have to ask is "Did you read the rest of the chapter?"

I mean talk about messed up... stoning to death a betrothed woman because she was raped and didn't yell out loudly enough. Seriously?

Ask them how they'd like it if their daughter was raped and had to be forced to marry her rapist. What about if they were paid 50 shekels of silver? Would they be ok with it then?

[stephaniec]

I laugh any time someone brings up Deuteronomy 22:5. All I have to ask is "Did you read the rest of the chapter?"

I mean talk about messed up... stoning to death a betrothed woman because she was raped and didn't yell out loudly enough. Seriously?

Ask them how they'd like it if their daughter was raped and had to be forced to marry her rapist. What about if they were paid 50 shekels of silver? Would they be ok with it then?

they kind of some how miss the point that Christ came into the world to bring love and forgiveness

[Heather]

At that instant, I found the strength, courage and conviction to cut my hair, put away my wardrobe of women's clothes and accepted the gender I was born with – male. That moment of death and re-birth marked the beginning of a long, arduous journey of learning – and re-learning.

Yeah I tried cutting my hair too at several points in my life. The funny thing is I never felt like I was a man when I did so. I'm glad he's happy with who he is but I find it quite telling he said put away his wardrobe of women's clothes.   

[Suziack]

Too bad it was 3 days before the operation, and not 3 days AFTER. If there is one thing I've learned to despise in this world, it's religion. Often the intent of people is good, but people give up their own internal spirituality for that which someone else says is better. I say it's not better. When they trade their own for that belonging to someone else, they are really no longer operating with any spirituality, at all. Each and every person is a sentient being, so what did they come here lacking? Wait! Listen to me... <shakes head>  Now I sound like a preacher!

[Suziack]

Two interesting statements, one right after the other, that I've noted in this person's testimony: this,

29 years have passed. I still struggle, but I am not alone in my trials and temptations.

followed by this,

Through it all, I've found an inner peace that surpasses human understanding.

"Yes, God has helped me to overcome my inner demons.  I've found inner peace, though after 29 years, true, I still have my struggles, my trials and temptations."

In other words, he hasn't stopped being trans.  He's just gone underground, repressed his natural instincts and needs.  A lot of us know that story.

I will confess that this makes me quite angry, the reason being that it's this sort of testimony that our religious enemies use to "prove" that we could stop being trans if we wanted to.  (And to the religious people on this forum, please don't take offense.  Obviously, I'm not saying that all religious people are our enemies.  What I mean is that we have enemies, some of whom are religious.  Our irreligious enemies use somewhat different strategies to attack us.)

The truth, as we all know, is that if you're trans, you're trans, and you're never going to stop being trans.  The question is how you're going to deal with it.

I'm not religious myself, so I don't pretend to know the mind of God, but from what I've observed in my time on this earth, I've come to the conclusion that God doesn't care.  Given that, in theory, he's omniscient, he'll know that if we're trans, it's not our doing.  And given that, in theory, he's omnipotent, if he disliked us so much, he could simply make us cis like everybody else.  It seems distinctly odd to me that a God who, in theory, loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son, would condemn me to everlasting hell for something he knows isn't my fault and that he himself could in any case have prevented if he had wanted to.

This fellow claims that God has helped him overcome his trans nature.  In fact, all he's saying is that God has helped him repress that trans nature for 29 years.  I repressed my trans nature for about twice 29 years, and I didn't need any God to help me do that.  I did it all by my little self.

Those of us who've repressed our trans nature for so many years know that it doesn't bring you any "peace that surpasses human understanding."  If it did, you wouldn't be having any struggles, trials and temptations.  You wouldn't be experiencing such misery.  Peace is peace.  I.e., you're at peace, not in the midst of a great struggle.

If you want to repress your trans nature, it's up to you.  Your life, your choice.  But at least let's be honest about what we're doing.  I myself am very tired of people, religious or otherwise, telling lies about ->-bleeped-<- because such lies hurt transgender people.

And that's the end of this rant.  I seriously hope I haven't offended anybody.  That wasn't my intention.  I'm just telling it like I see it.

Love and best wishes to everyone,
Foxglove

This person is still "struggling?" For 29 years? OMG! What a horrible life to live. I agree with Foxglove that he's only making a case for more persecution of the trans community.... PLUS...  He's just living a lie. It's the same argument that churches use against those who are gay - that they don't have to be. Yeah, Right. I don't have to be a human being, either. I could be star, or a Popsicle, or a... whatever! All I have to do is WILL myself not to be THAT, and I'll be transformed! Oh, it may take a little work. It might ever require a life time of struggling against those inner self-demons. But in the end, God will love you (otherwise, God will HATE you), and God will FORGIVE you (Otherwise, God won't ever forgive you... EVER!).

[JLT1]

The person in the story believed that the verse applied to them.  I can't say what they should have done. I really hope they are doing well.

I do not believe the verse applies to me for several reasons.  I'm not going to judge that person, that person should not judge me. 

For the OP..  This person was trying to tell you that they know these feeling exist.  They also believe they can be overcome through a devout life.  They are, in their own way, trying to help.  Accept it for what it is but if you want to, go to the Christian Religious Section here on Susan's and read about this verse and it's applicability to our lives.  When you deal with the person who sent this, deal with them in love.

Hugs,

Jen

[~Evelyn~]

My mum told me once that God forgives us before we had already done anything sinful, God forgives and forgets, And I also had questions like these once, and I sought out to talk to someone and this guy ( a pastor ) told me something that made me very happy. He told me that no one is perfect neither is God. So I I went 'huh?' So he told me that even God makes mistakes sometimes he put a female in the body of a male thus making mistakes, he did so because he knew we would be very strong people and he was right! Look where we all are now, fighting for what is right and what makes us feel complete, so there may be others out there who think we are weak, useless and such ( is referring to anti-trans community ) look at us and look at them. After all those insults look where us girls stand today! We stand tall and proud with our heads held up high!

Just like Eminem once said:
-I've been through the ringer,
but they can do little to the middle finger,
I feel like I've got a tear in my eye,
I feel the King of my world!
haters can make like bee's with no stingers and drop dead,
No more beef flingers, no more dramas...-