If there is a genetic and biological basis for gender...

[Olivia P]

If there is a genetic and biological basis for gender, doesn't that mean sex and gender is in reality the same thing and that the separation of the terms are simply left overs from the days of science thinking gender is purely psychological?

[LordKAT]

No, or there wouldn't be gender dysphoria in the first place. The physical aspects and the mental aspects aren't the same are are as different as your nose compared to your toes. All of which are controlled by your genes.

[Olivia P]

The dysphoria is caused by a biological mismatch tho, female brain male body for example. Every aspect of you has a mental side.

The conclusion science seems to be reaching is that your collection of genes seem to determine your variance of gender/sex, gender seems to be used as well for the mental side of everything, for the biological side of what is considered gender in the brain and genes.

[Jess42]

I don't really know if there is a genetic basis, but there could be a biological basis for it. Prenatal hormonal exposure, the brain developing as one gender but the genetics dictating what gender your body is or will be. I also believe that it just may be the way different brains develope from the mother's diet, to vitamins, to hormonal conditions and so on. I guess a genetic condition could probably be being born intersex or with both sets of genetals. I do believe it is a psychological thing too.

As for GID, if we had a society that was accepting of all gender variances and allowed free expression of whatever psychological gender we are, would we even have dysphoria over being trans? Yeah there would be some severe cases but if a M2F or F2M could totally embrace themselves and totally express themselves and society accepted us as our preferred gender, would we still have the problems we do within in the community and GID?

[Olivia P]

Jess, a study in 2008 showed some potential genetic ties that could cause mtf and ftm, thats what i refer to when i mention genetics

[Declan.]

As for GID, if we had a society that was accepting of all gender variances and allowed free expression of whatever psychological gender we are, would we even have dysphoria over being trans?

I live in that society right now. I'm still transgender. In fact, there are many more of us here than in areas where expression is stifled. Because our society is so focused on acceptance, we're free to live the lives we want, so there's less hesitation to transition. There are still some crappy people here, but they're few and far between. So living in that society actually seems to encourage transition as opposed to having the opposite effect.

[Jess42]

I live in that society right now. I'm still transgender. In fact, there are many more of us here than in areas where expression is stifled. Because our society is so focused on acceptance, we're free to live the lives we want, so there's less hesitation to transition. There are still some crappy people here, but they're few and far between. So living in that society actually seems to encourage transition as opposed to having the opposite effect.

Well, hush my mouth. Yeah it would make sense that it may be a physical thing instead of just a psychological effect.

Jess, a study in 2008 showed some potential genetic ties that could cause mtf and ftm, thats what i refer to when i mention genetics

That is interesting. What are some of the potential genetic ties? Is it like mutated genes or certain genes that the parents have that are maybe dormant but line up just right to cause a person to be transgender? Kind of like two dark eyed parents can have a blue eyed child if the genes line up just right.

[Umiko]

i just use the term "my X lost a leg" due to the bad choices my mother made during my development. i have all female traits but yet my hormones got mixed becuz of the alcohol and drug use my mother was doing.

[Olivia P]

That is interesting. What are some of the potential genetic ties? Is it like mutated genes or certain genes that the parents have that are maybe dormant but line up just right to cause a person to be transgender? Kind of like two dark eyed parents can have a blue eyed child if the genes line up just right.

For MTF the  androgen receptor (AR) gene was more likely to be longer, making male sex hormones less effective and therefore not masculinizing the brain

"The gene—which is known to make circulating testosterone less effective at signaling, circulating, and just generally doing its thing—turned out to be longer in transsexuals. Less-potent testosterone could, in turn, affect the development of the brain in the womb"

theres a similar gene with something like this found in FTM's as well


I saw a scientist in a video reference that identical twins are more likely to both be trans than non identical and that a study showed this, although i haven't seen the research papers regarding that study

[Jess42]

For MTF the  androgen receptor (AR) gene was more likely to be longer, making male sex hormones less effective and therefore not masculinizing the brain

"The gene—which is known to make circulating testosterone less effective at signaling, circulating, and just generally doing its thing—turned out to be longer in transsexuals. Less-potent testosterone could, in turn, affect the development of the brain in the womb"

theres a similar gene with something like this found in FTM's as well


I saw a scientist in a video reference that identical twins are more likely to both be trans than non identical and that a study showed this, although i haven't seen the research papers regarding that study

That is extremely interesting, now if society could see being transgender is just as normal as any other genetic traits.

[Stochastic]

I saw a scientist in a video reference that identical twins are more likely to both be trans than non identical and that a study showed this, although i haven't seen the research papers regarding that study

This is an interesting discussion, and I am delighted to finally have the opportunity to contribute. Please keep in mind that my opinion is simply that, an opinion.

If being trans was purely genetic, then expression in identical twins should be higher than, for lack of a better term, "more likely". We would also see more parent/child and sibling expression. I have read cases of this, but does not appear to be very common. I do think there is a genetic predisposition to being trans, and Olivia P. has provided a good reference, among others, that indicate this predisposition. From what I have read, environmental factors also play a significant role.

From a biological basis, literature I have read suggest brain development issues in the womb. Research also indicates that our brains are structurally differently from what is typical of our gender although I still read conflicting evidence of this.

Once I was able to get past the hardship that goes with acceptance, I find that being trans is fascinating, and I am learning about myself everyday. I have been on low dose HRT for three months, and I am taking notes and measurements routinely. Regardless of which gender I express in the future, I will always be a science nut. 

[Stochastic]

That is extremely interesting, now if society could see being transgender is just as normal as any other genetic traits.

I agree. We are uncommon, but very normal in that there is a logical explanation for how we feel. It simply takes education for those willing to learn.

[Michaela Whimsy]

I have been wanting to read up on this subject more and have come across some things here and there.  Like people have posted exposures to certain things in the womb seem to be very connected.

http://www.tftptf.com hopefully the link works to the article about the chemicals in the water.  My mother lived there during pregnancy and 2 years after I was born.  Some of those chemicals, have evidence of being EDCs.  Does anyone have any more info on where to look this type of thing up? 

[Stochastic]

I have been wanting to read up on this subject more and have come across some things here and there.  Like people have posted exposures to certain things in the womb seem to be very connected.

http://www.tftptf.com hopefully the link works to the article about the chemicals in the water.  My mother lived there during pregnancy and 2 years after I was born.  Some of those chemicals, have evidence of being EDCs.  Does anyone have any more info on where to look this type of thing up?

Hi Michaela,

Google Scholar is a good public resource and is a good place to start. You may find helpful resources. However, some resources may be too technical. One useful feature is on the right hand side there are often links to PDF versions of reports versus a reporting of just an abstract.

http://scholar.google.com

Julia

[Michaela Whimsy]

I had no idea Google had that function.  Thank you.  Funny that the first time I see your name on a post here it is in a discussion where a lot of the info on the subject IS stochastic. I like your name.

[Stochastic]

I had no idea Google had that function.  Thank you.  Funny that the first time I see your name on a post here it is in a discussion where a lot of the info on the subject IS stochastic. I like your name.

So sweet! You really made my day! I hope you find the information that you are searching for.

[HoneyStrums]

well, if genetics are the case, then god defo made us trans. lol

so can I be allowed to separate trans and dysphoria?
meaning that trans is genetics, and dysphoria the affect?

[Stochastic]

so can I be allowed to separate trans and dysphoria?
meaning that trans is genetics, and dysphoria the affect?

Very good point. That is the way I see it. Being trans is the physical condition described above, and dysphoria is how the body and mind responds to that condition. As said earlier, we are very normal in that there is a logical explanation for how we feel.

[Olivia P]

Well yes, the problem at the moment is its defined by the symptoms and the treatment,  dysphoria for symptom, transition for treatment, but i guess since theres no conclusive decision on the cause or exactly what it is due to various reasons science falls back on symptoms and treatment to define it.

[Jill F]

I don't know exactly why I'm trans.  Genetics, epigenetics, DES, XXY, PAIS, THC, something in the water or demonic possession? I suppose for the sake of humankind that it would be nice to have a definitive answer as to why people experince GD, but at the end of the day it has become irrelevant to my day to day existence. I'm trans and that's the way the cookie crumbled.  I could never corner my mother and grill her for answers, and she even has a doctorate in this sort of thing.  As far as I'm concerned, the "why" factor is moot, and I can't dwell on it any longer.  I'm here, I'm me and I just need to move on and make the best out of however much time I have left.  Who wants cookies?