The trend of explaining away our conditions

[Declan.]

Lately, there seems to be a spike in transgender people explaining away our conditions, especially in news articles. Whether it's saying we're only transgender because of societal norms or that we just need to be happy with ourselves and our feelings will go away, it seems it's becoming common for us to side with the very people who are trying to eradicate us (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists, Evangelical Christians, etc.). I know everyone has different experiences, but it seems the lines are sometimes blurred between "this is my experience" and "this is everyone's experience."

What happens if doctors start believing the same thing? Will it become harder - impossible, even - for us to transition? Will the few insurance companies that pay for our procedures and treatments decide to stop? Is this concerning to anyone else, or is it nothing to worry about?

[LordKAT]

I haven't noticed it being explained away. I don't think ones who do cover aren't real likely to stop as the trend is going the other way.

[blink]

The "you just need to [love/accept] your [body/self]" camp? The idea that if we somehow lived in a "genderless" society that dysphoria over sex characteristics wouldn't exist? There's a lot of that on Tumblr. I have read things from people saying they've heard this type of thing repeated by a doctor. Which is worrying. But keep in mind that the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American Psychological Association, amongst other organizations, are in agreement that transition-related care is medically necessary for people who experience gender dysphoria. The doctors who actually study this are thankfully aware this condition isn't something you can think away.

I recommend Googling the phrase, "Things Transphobes say; Things Genderspecials say".

[HoneyStrums]

I do some really radical explaining, (sometimes forget to mention phrases like "for me")
But I wouldn't worry too much, It is already known that everybody experience it differently, and accepted that what works for one might not work for the next.

[Declan.]

The "you just need to [love/accept] your [body/self]" camp? The idea that if we somehow lived in a "genderless" society that dysphoria over sex characteristics wouldn't exist? There's a lot of that on Tumblr. I have read things from people saying they've heard this type of thing repeated by a doctor. Which is worrying. But keep in mind that the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American Psychological Association, amongst other organizations, are in agreement that transition-related care is medically necessary for people who experience gender dysphoria. The doctors who actually study this are thankfully aware this condition isn't something you can think away.

I recommend Googling the phrase, "Things Transphobes say; Things Genderspecials say".

Tumblr has always been a place you could count on to hear that, but it seems it's been spreading like wildfire. Maybe I'm wrong. There seem to be a lot more people transitioning who don't suffer from gender dysphoria, which might be related. I'm supportive of their decisions, don't get me wrong. Everyone should have the right to do as they please with their bodies. But when someone admits they don't have gender dysphoria and goes on to say that the only reason it exists is because of society and conditioning, that's frustrating, especially since this is happening in the only "safe spaces" we have. It frustrates me regardless of whether the person suffers from gender dysphoria or not, but it feels worse when it's coming from someone who doesn't have it at all and feels entitled to speak on behalf of something they have no experience with.

In any case, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like this. Thanks for the recommendation.

[suzifrommd]

Lately, there seems to be a spike in transgender people explaining away our conditions, especially in news articles. Whether it's saying we're only transgender because of societal norms or that we just need to be happy with ourselves and our feelings will go away

I HATE this. I'm with you. I want to scream every time I hear this.

I especially hate the notion that if there were no gender binary, trans people would be happier.

Actually, the gender binary HELPS me, kind of as a road map to be able to see myself as a woman. It's wired into my brain that I have to see myself that way, so the easier it is the better.

I also don't think very many other people would be happier that way either. Most cis people I know, LIKE presenting as their gender, provided it doesn't become a cultural requirement.

We need to make our voices heard very clearly on this subject. There are a lot of misguided people out there.

[Klaus]

I recommend Googling the phrase, "Things Transphobes say; Things Genderspecials say".

Wow, talk about horseshoe theory! 

I've definitely experienced this online and off. The new go-to reasoning for talking someone out of transitioning seems to be, "but you don't have to adhere to gender norms, why can't you just be a strong woman?" Not only do I not particularly identify as strong, it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that my brain is a man's brain and I should have been born with a man's body. Simple as that. Societal roles, gender norms, and whatever else just don't factor into it. 

Sometimes it seems like there's an inverse relationship between breaking down gender stereotypes and understanding trans identity. I think this points to the fact that much of the LGBT community doesn't really understand what we go through.

[Ms Grace]

The new go-to reasoning for talking someone out of transitioning seems to be, "but you don't have to adhere to gender norms..."

oh yeah, I did that to myself for twenty years after my last attempt at transition. That is a particularly hellish place to be in that proves nothing to no one.

[DriftingCrow]

Actually, threads like these make me say "why am I even here?" [on a trans website]

Tumblr has always been a place you could count on to hear that, but it seems it's been spreading like wildfire. Maybe I'm wrong. There seem to be a lot more people transitioning who don't suffer from gender dysphoria, which might be related. I'm supportive of their decisions, don't get me wrong. Everyone should have the right to do as they please with their bodies. But when someone admits they don't have gender dysphoria and goes on to say that the only reason it exists is because of society and conditioning, that's frustrating, especially since this is happening in the only "safe spaces" we have. It frustrates me regardless of whether the person suffers from gender dysphoria or not, but it feels worse when it's coming from someone who doesn't have it at all and feels entitled to speak on behalf of something they have no experience with.

I HATE this. I'm with you. I want to scream every time I hear this.

I especially hate the notion that if there were no gender binary, trans people would be happier.

Actually, the gender binary HELPS me, kind of as a road map to be able to see myself as a woman. It's wired into my brain that I have to see myself that way, so the easier it is the better.

I also don't think very many other people would be happier that way either. Most cis people I know, LIKE presenting as their gender, provided it doesn't become a cultural requirement.

We need to make our voices heard very clearly on this subject. There are a lot of misguided people out there.

I read a lot of trans-related articles, and I really can't recall anything being "explained away" like this. Though I do admit, I purposely avoid anti-LGBT news sources and I don't read blogs, maybe this is where all the explaining away is going on.

Though, I do consider myself to be trans. A big part of me wants to transition really really badly. But, (currently anyways) I am not transitioning and have no plans to, part of the reason why is for some of the reasons you seem to find infuriating (like finding a mental balance/happiness/acceptance, and I also think less of a binary would be better for me and that a significant portion of my social dysphoria is from social norms) -- I think I need to find spiritual/mental peace since I don't believe just getting on T and having top surgery will necessarily fix all my problems. I do see people on here who've been on hormones, had surgery, and still have crippling dysphoria and are unhappy, and I don't want to be like that.

Like some said above, there's a path for everyone. I don't think you guys/girls should feel like your experience is being erased by the media, but I really don't see what's so infuriating about mine and many others. I talk about my views on this, and offer my advice to others in the non-transitioning section often, so sorry this "wildfire" is creeping into this space too.

[HoneyStrums]

Wow omg, a revelation

So im here, thinking you don't have to conform to gender norms and im like. But those are half the reason I Identify In the first place.

Liking Long hair, talking about makeup, wearing dresses, and all the other gender norms I do conform too, are what help me to cope with the areas I don't.

But that's not enough, Ive been thinking about why cant I just be a man that likes all these things, that gets boobs and hormones and bottom surgeries? But that's just it, I cant, because "I" cant. I need them because I identify as female, And I need to conform to those boxes. Because that's me idea of woman. And without them Id feel less of a woman. granted I cant fill as many as I would like. but that why I need to fill as many as I can, to help cope with the ones I cant.

[Declan.]

Actually, threads like these make me say "why am I even here?" [on a trans website]

I read a lot of trans-related articles, and I really can't recall anything being "explained away" like this. Though I do admit, I purposely avoid anti-LGBT news sources and I don't read blogs, maybe this is where all the explaining away is going on.

Though, I do consider myself to be trans. A big part of me wants to transition really really badly. But, (currently anyways) I am not transitioning and have no plans to, part of the reason why is for some of the reasons you seem to find infuriating (like finding a mental balance/happiness/acceptance, and I also think less of a binary would be better for me and that a significant portion of my social dysphoria is from social norms) -- I think I need to find spiritual/mental peace since I don't believe just getting on T and having top surgery will necessarily fix all my problems. I do see people on here who've been on hormones, had surgery, and still have crippling dysphoria and are unhappy, and I don't want to be like that.

Like some said above, there's a path for everyone. I don't think you guys/girls should feel like your experience is being erased by the media, but I really don't see what's so infuriating about mine and many others. I talk about my views on this, and offer my advice to others in the non-transitioning section often, so sorry this "wildfire" is creeping into this space too.

I don't have a problem with anyone who feels that way, so I apologize if that's how it came across. My post isn't about people who are sharing their personal experiences, it's about people applying their experiences to others because they have some kind of agenda (abolishing gender roles, etc.). "I don't think anyone would transition if gender roles didn't exist," for example.

[Tysilio]

The new go-to reasoning for talking someone out of transitioning seems to be, "but you don't have to adhere to gender norms..."

oh yeah, I did that to myself for twenty years after my last attempt at transition. That is a particularly hellish place to be in that proves nothing to no one.

Yes. I tried to live up to that for around four decades. To say that it didn't work is an understatement. It seems we're very threatening to a lot of radical feminists (who are where most of this comes from) -- they apparently want to believe that (a) gender is socially constructed, and (b) therefore it doesn't "really" exist.

Wrong-o!

A few people have said that to me, and I... have trouble responding politely. Fortunately, my family and my actual friends have more sense.

[LordKAT]

but that why I need to fill as many as I can, to help cope with the ones I cant.

I think that is why most try to fit into the 'stereotypes' that so many want to erase.

[suzifrommd]

The new go-to reasoning for talking someone out of transitioning seems to be, "but you don't have to adhere to gender norms, why can't you just be a strong woman?"

I've come across this too, from a lot of cisgender allies who want to be super-super-supportive but don't have a clue as to what transgender is and haven't bothered to educate themselves. They think our condition is about wanting to be "like" the opposite sex, when that has nothing to do with it. So many of us are happy to be "like" our birth sex as long as we are recognized by ourselves and others socially and physically as a member of our identified gender.

[Felix]

Some of the most effective barriers to my transition over the years (as I kept either trying to or at least understand why I wanted to) have been people telling me that being a tomboy didn't mean I had to be a boy, or that if I just fought for equal rights I'd see that it was just patriarchy confusing me, or if I just dated more girls I'd accept that I was a lesbian, or that if I found open-minded and sensitive straight men I would stop seeing gay men as peers, or if I just tried wearing makeup and being girly I'd like it, or if I just tried being an intentionally butch girl I'd like it, or if I read this or that book I'd understand what was going on and change my mind, or if I changed my diet my hormones would stabilize and I'd be normal, or that it was all just satan's tempting, or it was the result of repressive religious upbringing, or I got brainwashed by college liberals, or I'm trans because I got molested and I probably just can't remember it, or I'm acting out a past life that I should move on from, and so on ad nauseam.

People want to explain away anything that doesn't precisely fit their worldview, and tumblr and the internet in general is just one more stage for theories and gossip. I do like tumblr and I very much love the internet, but my gosh ideas can get crazy momentum whether they are accurate (or complete or relevant) or not. The actual work and worth of transition is not captured very clearly in posts and gifs and tweets that get refreshed away quickly.

I am a huge fan of tearing down rulesets regarding what a man or woman should act like, and the shift toward questioning gender expectations is good. I like that meanness is getting called out. I think everything is trending in the right direction on a larger scale. We just have some awful bumps in the road.

Youth culture seems to be oversimplifying what transsexuality (trans* or however else you choose your signifiers) is to different people, and discounting the validity of binary identities. I'm all for gender boundaries being fluid as long everyone can respect people who don't fit into that definition.

This is a slight digression, but it's hard not to be stung by this -

I do see people on here who've been on hormones, had surgery, and still have crippling dysphoria and are unhappy, and I don't want to be like that.

I'm on hormones and I've had surgery and I'm still often unhappy. That shouldn't be an argument for or against anything, whether coming from a transperson or a cisperson. If you think that drugs and scalpels will fix your life, then you shouldn't use them. I engage with doctors in a calculated manner, and their work has drastically improved my physical and mental health. I still experience a lot of fear and adversity. Some of that has to do with my being trans and a lot of it doesn't, but it would be silly to say that transition is wrong because it didn't make me happy. Would you tell a homeless person that he should keep sleeping outside because having an indoor bed might not make him happy?

Most of that is not about what you said, Nimrata, but it reminds me of others' opinions. It sounds like you are doing what is right for you.

[Padma]

I especially hate the notion that if there were no gender binary, trans people would be happier.

Actually, the gender binary HELPS me, kind of as a road map to be able to see myself as a woman. It's wired into my brain that I have to see myself that way, so the easier it is the better.

The gender binary helps gender-binary trans people, and at the same time undermines people like me who are non-binary, so it's not universally helpful to trans people - but then nothing is going to be universally anything, because people are incredibly diverse (and therefore that includes trans people).

The thing is, I think it's impossible really to imagine a society where gender identity is flexible and optional and not an issue for people. I'd love that, because then you could be exactly who you are, I could be exactly who I am, and nobody would be making judgements about either of us.

I also think that many of the trans people who say they "don't experience gender dysphoria" are maybe just meaning in relative terms, compared to others. I know I've never felt the kind of "I hate my genitals, they make me sick!!" intensity of GD, but my sense of "Nope, this is just wrong" didn't go away until I finally got my Persistent Penis Syndrome treated, so that's why I'm transitioning. And there were times when some trans people tried to make me feel "less trans" because of that lack of intensity of GD-feeling (and, of course, because I was non-binary: female but not woman).

[suzifrommd]

The gender binary helps gender-binary trans people, and at the same time undermines people like me who are non-binary, so it's not universally helpful to trans people - but then nothing is going to be universally anything, because people are incredibly diverse (and therefore that includes trans people).

I agree with nothing being universal. I wasn't trying to speak for anyone other than myself. My point was mainly that they're trying to remake society (and IMO, biology) by trying to socially legislate gender away when it's not clear that it would be helpful for all the people they're doing it for.

And there were times when some trans people tried to make me feel "less trans" because of that lack of intensity of GD-feeling (and, of course, because I was non-binary: female but not woman).

I've had this happen to me too. I consider myself sort of non-binary, because I don't feel like a woman no matter how much I wish I was. Wasn't trans people that did it, it was a psychiatrist who was supposedly an expert on us, who took me to talks because I didn't really have the level of physical dysphoria that his textbooks suggested I should have.

But even though I'm non-binary, I still find that for practical reasons, I really want people to see me as a woman. I don't think people are wired to understand non-binary people. It takes an effort on their part to get past their binary wiring, and the last thing I want is to put potential friends and social contacts through that sort of effort.

People I'm really close to know my non-binary identity, but for my public self, I try to be completely female.

[DriftingCrow]

This is a slight digression, but it's hard not to be stung by this -

Quote from: Nimrata (aka LH) on Yesterday at 09:39:32 pm

I do see people on here who've been on hormones, had surgery, and still have crippling dysphoria and are unhappy, and I don't want to be like that.


I'm on hormones and I've had surgery and I'm still often unhappy. That shouldn't be an argument for or against anything, whether coming from a transperson or a cisperson. If you think that drugs and scalpels will fix your life, then you shouldn't use them. I engage with doctors in a calculated manner, and their work has drastically improved my physical and mental health. I still experience a lot of fear and adversity. Some of that has to do with my being trans and a lot of it doesn't, but it would be silly to say that transition is wrong because it didn't make me happy. Would you tell a homeless person that he should keep sleeping outside because having an indoor bed might not make him happy?

Most of that is not about what you said, Nimrata, but it reminds me of others' opinions. It sounds like you are doing what is right for you.

No matter what anyone does, they'll never be 100% happy all the time. I know my view is kind of unpopular, but I don't think ->-bleeped-<- is caused by the same thing for all people, and that for some people there's a strong mental and/or social component rather than just a biological one (like a genetically or medically caused birth defect like some people say being trans is). I do think people should do whatever they believe may enhance their life, and I don't have a problem with people who get on HRT for a short period of time to "try it out" to see if they like it or not (hey, if the homeless person doesn't like the bed, he can go back outside). I don't think the homeless is a good analogy though, since I'd rather take more caution since spending money on doctors, hormones, surgeries, and ruining my family life are big consequences to sleeping on a bed and finding out I don't like or need it.

[Klaus]

(...)So many of us are happy to be "like" our birth sex as long as we are recognized by ourselves and others socially and physically as a member of our identified gender.

Exactly! People wonder why so many trans people adhere to stereotypes when the second you take a step away from one, they try to tell you you're just a "sensitive guy" or a "strong girl."

Youth culture seems to be oversimplifying what transsexuality (trans* or however else you choose your signifiers) is to different people, and discounting the validity of binary identities. I'm all for gender boundaries being fluid as long everyone can respect people who don't fit into that definition.

Felix, I can identify with so much of what you wrote, but this really stands out to me. I've noticed that this comes from mostly young people too, particularly those active in the very movements supposedly engineered to "protect' us. Now everyone is trans*, unless you insist that dysphoria is the primary indicator, in which case you become an oppressor. I've been called everything from truscum to the patriarchy for being honest about my journey because it's "too binary."  On the other hand, it's the first time I've been accused of being too manly, so there's that. 

Like some said above, there's a path for everyone. I don't think you guys/girls should feel like your experience is being erased by the media, but I really don't see what's so infuriating about mine and many others. I talk about my views on this, and offer my advice to others in the non-transitioning section often, so sorry this "wildfire" is creeping into this space too.

Nimrata, I don't think anyone finds nonbinary people infuriating. I know I don't.  The only thing that's infuriating is when people who happen to be nonbinary project their experience onto other trans people, especially in the media, and it does happen. It's so prevalent that there are derogatory terms developed to refer to those of us who believe transgender is a medical condition and exist in the gender binary. I don't really care who transitions for non-medical reasons or why, as long as they don't suggest that all or most transgender people do so because of gender binaries, male/female privilege, the patriarchy, etc..

[Padma]

Nimrata, I don't think anyone finds nonbinary people infuriating. I know I don't.  The only thing that's infuriating is when people who happen to be nonbinary project their experience onto other trans people, especially in the media, and it does happen. It's so prevalent that there are derogatory terms developed to refer to those of us who believe transgender is a medical condition and exist in the gender binary. I don't really care who transitions for non-medical reasons or why, as long as they don't suggest that all or most transgender people do so because of gender binaries, male/female privilege, the patriarchy, etc..

It's interesting to read that, as a non-binary trans* person, because my experience is exactly that - but in the opposite direction, from binary trans* people instead. What this suggests to me is that there are some trans* people with big emotional investments in wanting others to be like them, and they tend to be the ones doing all the... well, to paraphrase a saying: the trans* community is like a swimming pool - all the noise is at the shallow end. So the end result is both non-binary and binary folk feeling browbeaten, because we've all got some people yelling at us for being who we are, even within the trans* community.

To be honest, this was one of the reasons why I had to step away from Susan's for a long time - just too many people eager to force their own experiences into others, and especially a lot of demonising of non-binary folk (or even just less gender-conforming folk) for "making us look bad" (yes, I had that said to me several times, for example for saying I didn't intend to change my voice).