T and the "LGB"

[kye92]

Ya I do too It'll be interesting to see what the decision is!

[Neshkav]

My own opinion, just from some observations, as to why the distancing is somewhat because our current movement for rights is being partially backed by 'intersectional feminists/anarchists' and because said movement seems to be more about getting kids diagnosed with 'gender dysphoria' or getting our surgeries to be covered by insurance rather than the angle LGB went for, which was a little more along the lines that 'what we do in our bedrooms shouldn't be anyone else's business'.

This is probably going to sound like a very unpopular opinion because I'm a bit of a libertarian in my philosophy I've found (left-leaning, but nonetheless libertarian) and I'm a transman, but I imagine that we'd get better results fighting for our rights if we simply wanted to be legally recognized as who are and not discriminated for or against in work, yet willing to work for and pay for physical changes as we see fit; as opposed to our current situation where intersectional feminists are trying to educate young children to not be offensive to these people who could explode into suicidal tendencies if they're not privileged to be sick enough to be allowed to get bottom surgery. And before you say that last sentence sounds cold, let me ask what sounds more encouraging of a way to grow up.

Would you feel more confident about life if you couldn't transition until you were an adult, but when you reached, say, the legal age to vote, you could legally change your name and gender, and while hormones and surgery required money out of your pocket, you wouldn't have the risk of being fired from your job and you wouldn't earn the ire of your peers because being transgender was part of why you're still kept around, and while you had to accept that not everyone will want to sleep with you, you could still be yourself and have complete autonomy? Or being slapped with a diagnosis for the rest of your life, getting your hormones and surgery covered by insurance, acquiring a job just because of a quota enforced by people with a half-hearted interest in your well-being, and being secretly hated by people because you have some connection to a group of people who will ruin your lives just because they don't use the right language around you?

Mod Edit- no profanity please.

Edit: Apologies for profanity.

[Oliviah]

There is a lot of confusion about the T from the LGB. 

First is What does the T stand for to you?  Does it mean ->-bleeped-<-?  or Transexual?

One is a fetish that is satisfied by dressing in female attire.  The other is someone dressing to be their authentic self.

Both are related to identity, but not in the same way. 

I think many are often left aghast when listening so many gay men tell us how we fee. 

[amber roskamp]

My own opinion, just from some observations, as to why the distancing is somewhat because our current movement for rights is being partially backed by 'intersectional feminists/anarchists' and because said movement seems to be more about getting kids diagnosed with 'gender dysphoria' or getting our surgeries to be covered by insurance rather than the angle LGB went for, which was a little more along the lines that 'what we do in our bedrooms shouldn't be anyone else's business'.

This is probably going to sound like a very unpopular opinion because I'm a bit of a libertarian in my philosophy I've found (left-leaning, but nonetheless libertarian) and I'm a transman, but I imagine that we'd get better results fighting for our rights if we simply wanted to be legally recognized as who are and not discriminated for or against in work, yet willing to work for and pay for physical changes as we see fit; as opposed to our current situation where intersectional feminists are trying to educate young children to not be offensive to these people who could explode into suicidal tendencies if they're not privileged to be sick enough to be allowed to get bottom surgery. And before you say that last sentence sounds cold, let me ask what sounds more encouraging of a way to grow up.

Would you feel more confident about life if you couldn't transition until you were an adult, but when you reached, say, the legal age to vote, you could legally change your name and gender, and while hormones and surgery required money out of your pocket, you wouldn't have the risk of being fired from your job and you wouldn't earn the ire of your peers because being transgender was part of why you're still kept around, and while you had to accept that not everyone will want to sleep with you, you could still be yourself and have complete autonomy? Or being slapped with a diagnosis for the rest of your life, getting your hormones and surgery covered by insurance, acquiring a job just because of a quota enforced by people with a half-hearted interest in your well-being, and being secretly hated by people because you have some connection to a group of people who will ruin your lives just because they don't use the right language around you?

Mod Edit- no profanity please.

Edit: Apologies for profanity.

You obviously aren't a intersectional feminist due to the fact that you are spreading huge misinformation on intersectional feminism. first off Intersectional feminist don't even think trans people should be diagnosed with any mental disorder and they try to get bills passed that say we don't need surgery to get our id's changed. They are also strongly against gender policing so that's fighting against the idea that surgery is necessary for a trans person to be the person that they want to be.

The ones I work with are trying to build a United queer community in Lansing. Because as every one on this post agrees there is a huge gap between lgb and t. The only queer people that are interested in trans rights that aren't trans are the intersectional feminist so quit blaming our biggest allies for causing a rift between the lgb and the t. That was done by cis people when they decided the queer movement was gonna focus on same-sex marriage and all the time that non discrimination laws for sexual orientation were pushed for without mention of gender identity. 

We police the language because we are trying to teach people to be respectful and to have empathy of other people's lives regardless of how well you can relate to what they say.

I am bothered by you saying intersectional feminist are to blame for us being apparent from the rest of the queer community because second wave feminist( non-intersectional feminist) and early gay rights advocates are literally the reason that trans people got left behind in the first place. Despite the fact that trans people were very much a part of the initial gay rights movement.

[amber roskamp]

There is a lot of confusion about the T from the LGB. 

First is What does the T stand for to you?  Does it mean ->-bleeped-<-?  or Transexual?

One is a fetish that is satisfied by dressing in female attire.  The other is someone dressing to be their authentic self.

Both are related to identity, but not in the same way. 

I think many are often left aghast when listening so many gay men tell us how we fee.

Both of those terms are outdated. Using this kinda language promotes the idea that some people's gender is more valid then others which is total b.s. all genders are valid so we use the inclusive terms transgender or trans. Most people in the lgb community are aware of this but now.


The t stands for neither it stands for the umbrella term transgender.

[Oliviah]

Both of those terms are outdated. Using this kinda language promotes the idea that some people's gender is more valid then others which is total b.s. all genders are valid so we use the inclusive terms transgender or trans. Most people in the lgb community are aware of this but now.


The t stands for neither it stands for the umbrella term transgender.

The terms are not outdated they are out of fashion.  The terms are still the only applicable ones that describe what they describe. 

The fact is that cross dresser.  The new preferred term for ->-bleeped-<- is someone who generally identifies as strait and male.

Transsexual mtf is not someone who identifies as male. 

That is the problem.


http://www.lgbt.ucla.edu/documents/LGBTTerminology.pdf

http://geneq.berkeley.edu/lgbt_resources_definiton_of_terms#transgender

[Devlyn]

This is Susan's Place, and these are the terms and definitions we use here:

Community Definitions:

Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.

Androgyne: An androgynous person

Androgynous: Being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior.

Crossdresser: a person wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally no sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.

Drag kings: performers, usually gay women or transgendered men - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the male gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag kings often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.

Drag queens: performers, usually gay men or transgendered women - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the female gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag queens often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.

Intersexual: a person born with the full or partial sex organs of both sexes; with underdeveloped or ambiguous sex organs; a sex chromosome karyotype other than XX or XY; or sex hormone receptor problems which prevent normal absorption of Estrogen or Androgens. Intersexual persons may seek to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Significant other: for the purpose of this site, someone close to a person who is transgender. This may be a mother, father, son, daughter, sister, brother, family member, husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, or friend.

Transsexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

->-bleeped-<-: a person who wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally a strong sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.

Other terms:

Post-Ops: Transsexuals who have had surgical procedures to make their body as congruent as possible with their preferred sex. For MTF transsexuals this is generally considered to be after Genital surgery (GRS, orchiectomy, and/or penectomy), for FTM transsexuals it is generally considered to be after top surgery.

Pre-ops: Transsexuals who desire to to make their body as congruent as possible with their preferred sex, but have not yet had the surgical procedures for whatever reason.

This is not intended to be a glossary of all tg related terms. This just defines the make-up of the community on this site.

Proper Pronouns

Always use proper gender terms and pronouns based on the person's expressed self identity. Intentionally misgendering someone will result in a ban no matter what provocation you think you experienced.

For Male to Female Transsexuals: Male to Female transsexuals are women, and should be addressed in the feminine,  Brava instead of Bravo. recommended pronouns include She, Her, and Hers.

For Female to Male Transsexuals: Female to Male transsexuals are men, and should be addressed in the masculine Bravo instead of Brava. Recommended pronouns include He, Him, and His.

Gender Neutral: Whenever possible avoid the use feminine or masculine forms. Recommended pronouns include Them, They, and Their.

Note: ->-bleeped-<- and ->-bleeped-<- are considered extremely pejorative and should not be used on this site. Terms like Ladyboy should be limited to use in their specific cultural reference.

Crossdressers and ->-bleeped-<-s are not the same, there are distinct differences but both groups are transgender.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Oliviah]

This is Susan's Place, and these are the terms and definitions we use here:
 

Crossdressers and ->-bleeped-<-s are not the same, there are distinct differences but both groups are transgender.

Hugs, Devlyn

The jargon is confusing. 

I think it doesn't serve us well to have blurred the distinction between dysphoria and sexually motivated cross dressing.

It leads to debates about such topics as true trans, which going by this set of terms is really a debate about motivation.


I say this because when our right to exist is on the line I know that people understand a medical condition and don't mind sharing a bathroom with a cancer patient.

If you phrase it as a sexual fetish that support turns to yuck.  No people don't want to share the bathroom with someone who is engaging in a sexual fetish.   

[Devlyn]

This is Susan's Place, and these are the terms and definitions we use here:
 

Crossdressers and ->-bleeped-<-s are not the same, there are distinct differences but both groups are transgender.

Hugs, Devlyn

The jargon is confusing. 

I think it doesn't serve us well to have blurred the distinction between dysphoria and sexually motivated cross dressing.

It leads to debates about such topics as true trans, which going by this set of terms is really a debate about motivation. 

Your comments are drifting towards TOS #10. Crossdressers, ->-bleeped-<-s, Drag Queens are all vibrant parts of our community. We welcome them all with open arms here. 

10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:◾Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term. The same restriction applies to advocating the removal of the T from GLBT.
◾Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others
◾Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive no matter the provocation.

Please respect all of our members and guests. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[Oliviah]

The jargon is confusing. 

I think it doesn't serve us well to have blurred the distinction between dysphoria and sexually motivated cross dressing.

It leads to debates about such topics as true trans, which going by this set of terms is really a debate about motivation. 


Your comments are drifting towards TOS #10. Crossdressers, ->-bleeped-<-s, Drag Queens are all vibrant parts of our community. We welcome them all with open arms here. 

10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:◾Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term. The same restriction applies to advocating the removal of the T from GLBT.
◾Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others
◾Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive no matter the provocation.

Please respect all of our members and guests. 

Hugs, Devlyn

I am not bashing at all.  I point out our real life struggle with identity and legitimacy. 

Several very separate things are included together in one Letter.  That letter is T.  I have no honest problem with that, but it isn't bashing when we say that Hey people have become confused. 

Much of the reason for the rash of bathroom bills is that people have confused terms.  They oppose the idea of someone who identifies as a male in the female bathroom for purposes of sexual pleasure  where as they don't oppose someone who is living their life authentically using the bathroom with them. 

That is the issue. 

[Devlyn]

Tell me about one person you know who uses the female restroom for sexual pleasure.

As you see in my avatar, I am a crossdresser. I don't dress for sexual reasons. I use female restrooms.

[Oliviah]

Tell me about one person you know who uses the female restroom for sexual pleasure.

As you see in my avatar, I am a crossdresser. I don't dress for sexual reasons. I use female restrooms.

Under your set of definitions a cross dresser doesn't have sexual pleasure as a motivation a ->-bleeped-<- does.  So I am addressing that group.  However in the broader sense most these days use cross dresser to mean ->-bleeped-<-.  ->-bleeped-<- has a the motivation of sexual pleasure via dressing.

[Mariah]

This thread is locked. This discussion is going nowhere except to argue.