Please answer this

[Claire (formerly Magdalena)]

Is the doctor expensive? Or do you just not like doctors?

[KayXo]

I can't seem to find answers to some questions about transdermal estrogen.  Maybe someone here knows.  My question is does transdermal E go through the liver at all and if so does it stimulate clotting chemicals?  If there is a first pass then what is the second pass?

Transdermal estradiol goes directly to the blood instead of first (first pass) going through the gut and liver before reaching the blood like oral estradiol does. This results in much less estradiol going through the liver and affecting clotting proteins/enzymes. Studies have shown that transdermal estradiol in prostate cancer patients and in genetic women (and even transsexual women) does not increase clotting risks and even appears to protect against it!

[KayXo]

Also I think patches are meant for birth control uses, not hormone replacement.

It's actually the opposite. Patches only contain estrogen and are meant for hormone replacement therapy in menopausal women. That's why they deliver small amounts. I think a patch containing ethinyl estradiol and perhaps a progestin was used years ago as birth control but it fell out of favor...since the risks did not seem to lessen.

[KayXo]

Well actually I use estrogel which I rub on the arm.  I guess a worse case would be to keep taking the spironolactone and very low dose estrogen.  I couldn't see my doctor having a problem with that.  Of course it's 3 months until the next visit so I'll have to keep taking the aspirins until then.

Taking Aspirin so often might not be a good idea as it irritates the stomach and could cause an ulcer. You might be asking for even more problems in the long run. You need to advise your doctor. Perhaps, blood circulation is just bad and this could be due to either a lack of estrogen since it tends to dilate blood vessels or stress caused by all the changes going on in your life (?). You need to absolutely let the doctor know so they can really figure out what's going on. These are just ideas I'm throwing at you but in the end, the doctor should know. Don't take Aspirin lightly. Too much can also make the blood too thin and cause internal hemorrhage which, in some cases, can be fatal.

[KayXo]

only estrogen PLUS progesterone rises the risk of thrombosis (formation of clots), estrogen alone by any way does not increase your risk of thrombosis

That is not true. Estrogen alone can cause clots, more so if taken orally and especially if non bio-identical estrogen is taken such as ethinyl estradiol. Bio-identical progesterone does not appear to affect coagulation at all, according to several studies while some progestins do like medroxyprogesterone acetate and cyproterone acetate.

[KayXo]

It'll be ok.  I'll just cycle on and off the E while taking the spiro.

This is also not a good idea as this might cause ups and downs in moods, too much instability which is not good for either the body or mind. You need to contact the doctor instead of taking it upon yourself to do this or that without truly understanding the implications of what you're doing and what is really going on.

[Amy1988]

Taking Aspirin so often might not be a good idea as it irritates the stomach and could cause an ulcer. You might be asking for even more problems in the long run. You need to advise your doctor. Perhaps, blood circulation is just bad and this could be due to either a lack of estrogen since it tends to dilate blood vessels or stress caused by all the changes going on in your life (?). You need to absolutely let the doctor know so they can really figure out what's going on. These are just ideas I'm throwing at you but in the end, the doctor should know. Don't take Aspirin lightly. Too much can also make the blood too thin and cause internal hemorrhage which, in some cases, can be fatal.

I go back to the doctor in September so I guess I'll let him know then and see what he wants to do.

[Claire (formerly Magdalena)]

Amy,

You have asked us for an answer and now you're ignoring what we've said. I understand that you don't want to see a doctor. Is it because you've self-medicated? Doctors are not police, and they can't just call the police because you self-medicated. There are laws in place that prevent them from reporting you for something like that, believe it or not. The doctor also has obligations under the WPATH standards of care and can't just arbitrarily cut you off from E. In short, there is no downside to seeing a doctor right now with the possible exception of the expense.

You have something wrong that you've decided was caused by E. What we're trying to say is that there's every chance it's completely unrelated. Still, you have something wrong. It might be serious. If it is, you may to irreversible damage to yourself if you wait until September.

Asprin isn't the answer. Not only can it cause ulcers (excruciating pain), it also thins the blood. Little known fact: that's how many poisons work. Thinning your blood too much will kill you, this is not a case of maybe.

If we assume for a moment that you are correct in your assumptions and it is a clot. Then it's already there. Thinning your blood will not get rid of it. Mine took six hours of surgery. It will not simply become smaller and disappear. If it is there and it comes loose to be carried in the blood stream it will lodge somewhere else, it still won't become smaller or disappear. If it goes to your lungs, heart, or brain, it can be fatal, and what are the chances blood will go through your heart?

You absolutely, 100%, no getting out of it, need to see your doctor. Jessica has years of medical experience as an EMT. Her knowledge is far greater than yours (or mine). If she says you need to do this, you need to do it.

"There is so much conflicting information out there I honestly don't think anyone really knows." There is a bit of truth here that's applicable. If no one really knows, then you can't know either. Your doctor does know, however. That's one person whose expertise is greater than the internet.

I don't know if I'm being entirely clear to let me restate my point. Make an appointment with your doctor today. Don't wait. Don't give excuses. Call. Now.

Oh, and almost forgot to mention, see your doctor.

I'm only being a pain about it because I care enough to want you to be healthy.

with love,
-Claire

[Amy1988]

Amy,

You have asked us for an answer and now you're ignoring what we've said. I understand that you don't want to see a doctor. Is it because you've self-medicated? Doctors are not police, and they can't just call the police because you self-medicated. There are laws in place that prevent them from reporting you for something like that, believe it or not. The doctor also has obligations under the WPATH standards of care and can't just arbitrarily cut you off from E. In short, there is no downside to seeing a doctor right now with the possible exception of the expense.

You have something wrong that you've decided was caused by E. What we're trying to say is that there's every chance it's completely unrelated. Still, you have something wrong. It might be serious. If it is, you may to irreversible damage to yourself if you wait until September.

Asprin isn't the answer. Not only can it cause ulcers (excruciating pain), it also thins the blood. Little known fact: that's how many poisons work. Thinning your blood too much will kill you, this is not a case of maybe.

If we assume for a moment that you are correct in your assumptions and it is a clot. Then it's already there. Thinning your blood will not get rid of it. Mine took six hours of surgery. It will not simply become smaller and disappear. If it is there and it comes loose to be carried in the blood stream it will lodge somewhere else, it still won't become smaller or disappear. If it goes to your lungs, heart, or brain, it can be fatal, and what are the chances blood will go through your heart?

You absolutely, 100%, no getting out of it, need to see your doctor. Jessica has years of medical experience as an EMT. Her knowledge is far greater than yours (or mine). If she says you need to do this, you need to do it.

"There is so much conflicting information out there I honestly don't think anyone really knows." There is a bit of truth here that's applicable. If no one really knows, then you can't know either. Your doctor does know, however. That's one person whose expertise is greater than the internet.

I don't know if I'm being entirely clear to let me restate my point. Make an appointment with your doctor today. Don't wait. Don't give excuses. Call. Now.

Oh, and almost forgot to mention, see your doctor.

I'm only being a pain about it because I care enough to want you to be healthy.

with love,
-Claire

Claire I am under a doctors care.  That's how I'm getting my estrogel and spironolactone prescriptions and I'll tell him about my leg next visit.  I no longer self medicate.  As for clotting I doubt if it's clot related since the leg pain goes away with aspirin.  325mg a day. I don't think aspirin would reduce pain from a clot and the symptoms would be much worse by now.  Not just pain but also swelling and pain while walking.  The pain actually gets better when I walk.  I think it's something else estrogen is doing to me.  What ever it is I want to find out.

[teeg]

325mg a day.

I thought people used baby aspirin to help with potential clotting, etc.? That's 81mg per tablet, why take so much? I could be wrong here.

I don't think aspirin would reduce pain from a clot and the symptoms would be much worse by now.

You're not a doctor.

What ever it is I want to find out.

Most hospitals offer 'free care' (depending on income) which can cover 100% of your costs for almost anything. Or you could go to an emergency room today and find out what's wrong. You don't have to wait until your appointment in September, you're choosing to. If it were me I'd have been checked out yesterday, but that's me and my opinion I guess.

[Beverly]

Aspirin protects against ARTERIAL clotting not VENOUS clotting. Taking Apsirin will not do anything about clots caused by Estrogen as they are not arterial.

.... the leg pain goes away with aspirin.  325mg a day.

Duh! You do realise that aspirin is a pain killer? Of course it makes the pain go away, that is what it is for. Aspirin will not make you better.

Go see a doctor.

[Claire (formerly Magdalena)]

Whatever it is, I want you to find out as well. Please don't wait.

[Amy1988]

Aspirin protects against ARTERIAL clotting not VENOUS clotting. Taking Apsirin will not do anything about clots caused by Estrogen as they are not arterial.

Duh! You do realise that aspirin is a pain killer? Of course it makes the pain go away, that is what it is for. Aspirin will not make you better.

Go see a doctor.

I can't see how one 325mg aspirin would get rid of the pain of a blood clot.  Maybe reduce it some for a short time.

[Jessica Merriman]

 You are playing Russian roulette with your life dear. If you continue to ignore people's advice on this including medical professionals you may find yourself to be changing your username to Amy the one legged girl. Is this extreme, yes it is, but then so is a clot. The fact is you have no idea what is going on in your body right now. The fact is it is bothering you enough to seek assistance in the form of advice. The fact is it could or could not be, but clots are a harm to life and limb so it should be checked immediately. The fact is you are on a medication known to form clots. The fact is it has persisted too long now to be a random ache or pain. The fact is 325Mg of Aspirin every day unless ordered by a Doctor can and will cause other issues such as Ulcers, coagulation issue's and could lead to internal bleeding. The fact is regular Aspirin regimen users only use 81-84 Mg of Aspirin a day WHILE being monitored for complications. The fact is also more than likely you have not told your parents about your leg issue. I know if one of my kids was on a medication known to cause clotting and had your issue they would have been in the Emergency Room last week. Don't worry, this is the last time I try to help or provide guidance or advice on this. Good luck. 

[Beverly]

I can't see how one 325mg aspirin would get rid of the pain of a blood clot.  Maybe reduce it some for a short time.

What the hell is wrong with you? You sit around debating with people over words and definitions whilst you have a persistent medical problem that is not getting better. Go get professional help.

Forget about the clot in your leg. Start worrying about the clot you see in the mirror!

[Hideyoshi]

I can't see how one 325mg aspirin would get rid of the pain of a blood clot.  Maybe reduce it some for a short time.

If you already know everything about what your leg pain is not, why are you making a post asking what you should do?

Everybody's telling you to see your doctor. If you want to continue to argue out of it or make excuses, why did you post in the first place?

Go to an urgent care facility if you don't want your original doctor to know immediately.

Coming from someone who's had duodenum inflammation, your stomach is not somewhere that you want an ulcer. Some of the most crippling pain I've experienced, and aspirin every day can give you one.

[Jessica Merriman]

Topic has run it's course.

Topic locked.