Transition with HRT and penetrative sex as top?

[ganjina]

Hi,

I hope this is not too explicit or something, but here it goes: am afraid of the risks of SRS, as I understand it is one of the more annoying in the long term, riskier operations out there related to transition. However, anti androgens cannot be taken forever, the increasing health risks in the long term are serious business.

My bottom line is, my long-term GF likes sex using "it", and while am not really comfortable with it, it can still be fun and create lot of intimate moments sooometimes. A lot of lesbian or bi gals and guys out there can like it too, I mean in spite of the icky feelings in my head it can be a fun tool I suppose. Penetrative sex can be fun wether you are alone with your partner or with more people and if you have nerves at the end of the "tool", it's always better than silicone. While the idea of a vag sounds more proper and relaxing, I think maybe in the long term it might not be as polyvalent, might be a big annoyance post SRS and might be full of risks, I just don't know.

But then, if I was to keep the thing, how to use it hard, and still have a feminine shape and not have health risks? Sounds like an impossible compromise, right?

I've heard about doing an orchi and using viagra, but can you do an orchi then a few years later still do a full SRS if that's what you want? Isn't the testicles tissue needed for a proper SRS? Also, isn't it BAD for health to use viagra, say one or twice a month over the course of several years in order to have that kind of sex? Am just trying to explore the full range of options here.

Thanks for your input.

PS: Modified the tittle to clear things out.

[Joanna Dark]

How long have you been on HRT? IME, for the first year of HRT I occasionally became, ick, hard and even used it a couple times. (I stopped after the last time which was over six months ago since it cause me significant mental distress and shame.) But now, 15.5 months after the start of HRT, I can not remember the last time I had an actual erection and it is limp and seemingly useless. Just how I like it. Granted, I'm 100 percent heterosexual and only like men, so when someone says penetrative sex, I generally think of me being the one being penetrated. You should try it's great. Yum Yum.

So, my point is this: if you wish to maintain and use your thing over the long term, you may want to seriously consider that HRT could very likely make it impossible. I'm sure there are people who this does not happen to, but if you are on a regular transitioning does of HRT, you should be prepared to become completely and totally impotent. I eventually want SRS, and I know that isn't for everyone, but I imagine if you actually like your thing even a little bit (or your SO does), the effects of HRT could prove life altering (and not in a good way).

I really know nothing about viagra as the only penis I use doesn't be;long to me but my BF and we have sex basically everyday we see each other now and he eventually wants me to be 100 percent female everywhere. I don't think he'd be with me otherwise. OTOH, I hear varying rpeorts that long term use of AAs and its effects on health.

However, I think the risks associated with SRS are overblown with all the new advances in modern medicine and the overall tweaking and perfection of SRS techniques. If you're under 40 and healthy, it is usually, from the girls I heard, quite satisfying and life affirming (in the best way possible.)

[ganjina]

Starting this month Wee!!! Oh I've definitely tried and it's alright, I just thought some variation could be good fun, that way you can have it one way or do it the other way. And yeah am afraid in the long term it won't possible, maybe some people here will have some suggestions. She is also aware of that, I mean it's definitely a big possibility, and if so, then so be it, but if there are other possibilities, why not?

Am not like trying to hold onto it but the SRS thing makes me scared (oh it's also very expensive, seems the insurance here covers it but god knows how experienced the people here are, this kind of thing did not even exist in the country a few years ago so yeah) and I thought using 'it' (and trust me, I rarely do) could be fun for more fun stuff, I don't know really.

Seems a girl with it it's kind of a thing in the girl circles we frequent, we all wanna try that sort of thing, seems fun, so really, if it's possible to do it, and does not make me feel so uncomfortable every once in a while (because normally it kind of does) why not? I get the feeling if I get the rest of my body "fixed" the thing won't necessarily be a big issue. The question is, is it possible to have the girl looks and the thing functional every once in a while while still being healthy? Is iiit??

PS: Just in case, am not here to have my feminity questioned. Also, am intersex. Also, it's my right and even duty to wonder about all this responsibly.

[LittleEmily24]

In the end its your choice ~ after having discussed it with a friend of mine who had the operation years ago, she told me that its not a decision to be taken lightly, nor is it like going from copper to gold, there are annoyances that you would have to deal with, but that the feeling of correctness trumps all of it. It is a huge decision and it could mentally scar you if you aren't prepared for it. However from what she told me, the "risks" that are said to come with the operation or the post-care/maintenance, are like aspirin side-effects: rare. Complications during the surgery these days is getting rarer and rarer, complications AFTER the surgery are also getting more rare, you just have to make sure you choose the right surgeon who is competent lol.

My wife also likes to use "it" and i can still enjoy sex despite not really liking the idea of using what I have, but luckily I have a very vivid imagination and it allows me to pretty much turn things around or get aroused easily, plus sex is different now so different things turn me on ~ Sorry if this is a bit explicit, but sometimes my wife will treat me "down there" as if i already had a vagina, and it works FAST lol. Now sex for us is mostly about foreplay, and the foreplay is the most enjoyable part, the penetration is not as fun but still fun. It really just depends on you, but like i said, ultimately it all depends on what you think is right for you ~ as for the complications of long term t-blocker usage... i've never heard of that before so i can't comment on that, but seeing as there are lots of transwomen who live happily with their "enlarged clitoris" and live healthy lives, im sure those "long term risks" are also relative and rare. Regardless, i wouldn't worry about that now lol you still got a long way to go before that door opens up for you cross that bridge when you get there hehe

Being where I am ( almost 4 months on hormone, VERY low and close to dead sex drive, and absolutely 0 arousal from being touched on my "parts") i can attest that me and my wife actually have MORE sex than we use to, and "performing" isn't difficult, it just takes a different approach. My sex drive is now more emotion driven and less stimulation driven. So i'd say its possible to have a healthy life, look 100% female and have fully functional sex organ well, fully functional in the "fun" aspect, not the reproductive aspect lol, its all about just finding a different approach; the way i see it now ~ if my wife wants to turn me on, she has to do to me what she likes being done to her lol and it seems to work out great for us xD

But dont let that be a deciding factor in your choice, if in the future you decide you really want to have SRS or really just feel like SRS would help you feel more correct, then you should consider it deeply.

[JLT1]

Well,

The testicular sack is desired to make part of the exterior vaginal opening during SRS.  The testicles are just tossed in medical waste.....

There are ways to get an erection after an orchi that do not require Viagra or similar. 

It's all up to you.

Jen

[Ginny]

I'm pretty sure if you are on only P and E then you can readily have erections if the correct circumstance presents itself, while still keeping feminine. I don't take any AA and think HRT is going just fine. Also other senses open up that will send pleasure down that way if you are worried about that. Currently I don't get aroused unless creating a vivid scene between me and a guy, or if I just touch my nipples enough. Um,eh...I've came just from nipple play recently, and yes the penis was rock hard at the time, however I was pretty much just ignoring it until BAM.  That was the most weird/intense/satisfying feeling I think I've ever had and sent me somewhere off in nahnah land for I want to say 30-45min until I regained my cognitive ability to know where I was.
As for health risks. This can be associated with the intake method, with pills carrying the most long term negative effects in my opinion. So I don't think you need to compromise if you want to keep it for now or for however long you want. Just consult with your endo about what you are trying to achieve.  Also to get over the "ick" part, maybe you could just think of it as a strap-on?

[ganjina]

Thanks for the input, that's tons of info to wonder about !

You girls have mentioned a few times that performing would be a non issue, because either there is no problem, or from not taking Anti-T... But isn't that like the rare exception or just the first few months of  HRT? I mean normally, in most of the cases, you do need anti-T to get the body changing, and you do stop having erections sooner or later, right? You girls are in a minority case or maybe because in the case of Emi, you are just starting out?

Being where I am ( almost 4 months on hormone, VERY low and close to dead sex drive, and absolutely 0 arousal from being touched on my "parts") i can attest that me and my wife actually have MORE sex than we use to, and "performing" isn't difficult.

But dont let that be a deciding factor in your choice, if in the future you decide you really want to have SRS or really just feel like SRS would help you feel more correct, then you should consider it deeply.

The drive is a big scare for me, I've always had a lower sex drive than any of my partners wether they be male or female, but am starting to think it has been more linked to dysphoria than anything else, and I feel like am always turning them down and it's kind of unfair for them, so I feel it would be a big downer if I was turning sex down even more. HOW can you have nearly no sex drive yet still have more sex?? That sounds so contradictory, how is that even possible ?? Just dysphoria issues getting fixed?

The testicular sack is desired to make part of the exterior vaginal opening during SRS.  The testicles are just tossed in medical waste.....

There are ways to get an erection after an orchi that do not require Viagra or similar. 

So in an orchi, you still keep the sack? (would be good news as the sack has also some sensitivity)
And really, what ways could there be to have an erection after being on months of anti- T? I can imagine the first few months, but after a long while, I really do not see it happening for most people.

I'm pretty sure if you are on only P and E then you can readily have erections if the correct circumstance presents itself, while still keeping feminine. I don't take any AA and think HRT is going just fine.

I think you are in a minority? Normally the anti-T is there for a good reason. Also, seems my endo has never ever heard of Progesterone and I won't go into details but she's a bit of a biggot with a few questioning comments when I told her I was with a girl, (in the end she was like Oh well am here only to do the treatment, the rest you have to check up with your therapist) and insisting a few times that this transition thing had to be met by SRS in the en and there was no going around it. I did not question her at that moment because I wanted the HRT ASAP. So yeah I think either we talk these issues out real soon or I will go for someone else, it's just a bit difficult in this country, so far I haven't heard of other specialists so it sounds a bit intimidating.

[kelly_aus]

Thanks for the input, that's tons of info to wonder about !

You girls have mentioned a few times that performing would be a non issue, because either there is no problem, or from not taking Anti-T... But isn't that like the rare exception or just the first few months of  HRT? I mean normally, in most of the cases, you do need anti-T to get the body changing, and you do stop having erections sooner or later, right? You girls are in a minority case or maybe because in the case of Emi, you are just starting out?

I have issues with function. I'm on an anti-androgen - even though my T level hovers around 0.. I've been on an anti-androgen since July 2011, was on estrogen only for some time before that.

]The drive is a big scare for me, I've always had a lower sex drive than any of my partners wether they be male or female, but am starting to think it has been more linked to dysphoria than anything else, and I feel like am always turning them down and it's kind of unfair for them, so I feel it would be a big downer if I was turning sex down even more. HOW can you have nearly no sex drive yet still have more sex?? That sounds so contradictory, how is that even possible ?? Just dysphoria issues getting fixed?

My sex drive didn't diminish or go away, not in the slightest. However, what I wanted sure did..

So in an orchi, you still keep the sack? (would be good news as the sack has also some sensitivity)
And really, what ways could there be to have an erection after being on months of anti- T? I can imagine the first few months, but after a long while, I really do not see it happening for most people.

Your brain is the most important sexual organ.. Testosterone is not the king when it comes to erections.

I think you are in a minority? Normally the anti-T is there for a good reason. Also, seems my endo has never ever heard of Progesterone and I won't go into details but she's a bit of a biggot with a few questioning comments when I told her I was with a girl, (in the end she was like Oh well am here only to do the treatment, the rest you have to check up with your therapist) and insisting a few times that this transition thing had to be met by SRS in the en and there was no going around it. I did not question her at that moment because I wanted the HRT ASAP. So yeah I think either we talk these issues out real soon or I will go for someone else, it's just a bit difficult in this country, so far I haven't heard of other specialists so it sounds a bit intimidating.

HRT is a very individual process, what works for some, doesn't work for others.

Not having SRS is a legitimate choice, as is having it. Only you can answer if it's something you need to do or not.

[JayneS]

Hun,

You have to do what you feel is right for you, for me there is no option, I have never had sex with another girl 1 I am into guys and always have been I had my first BF when I was 12, first sex at 14, 2 I physically can't erections are and always have been impossible in short everything is so small that, well, I have always had to sit when urinating. Bizarrely everything downstairs is wildly sensitive (Sorry if this is to explicit) I can get turned on just wearing tight knickers!! Can be embarrassing at times  .

Girl just do what feels right.


Hugs
Jayne xxxx

[Michelle69]

I am pre-hrt so I can't answer the original question, but I can add some light to - having less desire yet enjoying it more. Though never having experiencing it I have only wanted to be penetrated in the last 5 years, being the the one doing the deed has left me feeling... gross maybe, or (and this sounds silly) used. I have taken care of my ex's "urges" twice since telling her about me. The difference is like night and day. Even though it is not my preference, I still love her and we HAVE done it many times before. Now it is no longer stressful, and is some what enjoyable. At the risk of making me sound cavalier about it, making her feel good makes me feel good. I don't use the parts, and she goes away happy.

Even though it functions perfectly, I can't use mine. I can however, understand the lure of holding on that if you can. From what I have read though, full transition even without the surgery, and full functionality seem to be mutually exclusive.

Not sure any of that helps

Mikaela

[ganjina]

A lot of nice input ^^. You sure want to think it through and take it easy, one's health and happiness being top priority. The question indeed remains, to me that seems mutually exclusive in the long term as you say, in spite of some exceptions.

[luna nyan]

2 years half dose HRT.  Function was fine with lower output till I switched to pellet.
3 months on pellet, function slightly impaired, and output effectively zero.

They do say using it helps to maintain function...

[LittleEmily24]

The drive is a big scare for me, I've always had a lower sex drive than any of my partners wether they be male or female, but am starting to think it has been more linked to dysphoria than anything else, and I feel like am always turning them down and it's kind of unfair for them, so I feel it would be a big downer if I was turning sex down even more. HOW can you have nearly no sex drive yet still have more sex?? That sounds so contradictory, how is that even possible ?? Just dysphoria issues getting fixed?

Before HRT:

- Little to no sex drive
- barely felt in the mood
- dysphoria
- constant depression (both of which cause lack of sex drive)
- just an overall hatred for life that kept me wanting to do anything sexual and I was always exhausted
- sex felt like a chore

After HRT:

- DEAD sex drive (I never get "the urge" and then go to my partner and say "lets have sex" HOWEVER:
- sometimes kissing my wife or just being really close face contact is enough to make me want to get more intimate
- sex isn't something that is indicated or controlled or "demanded" by my "equipment" anymore... its emotional, its intimate, its energy sharing, its feeling like we're more intertwined
- I am monumentally happier than i was before and sex is actually FUN now as opposed to feeling like a chore
- I love getting romantic with my wife, and it leads to sex, and then if she does the right things, I am able to perform

Its not impossible, maybe i should be a little more clear; its not that your sex drive is dead, its just a different car ~ it handles differently, and you feel it differently.
Back then, sex felt like a PRIMAL urge... now it feels like a soft breeze that makes me feel like "ooohh.. it got chilly in here *giggle*", its not so head on or to-the-point as it use to be, there is more intimacy, there is more foreplay, there is more touching and kissing all over to make things get steamy lol

Its a combination of being rid of dysphora/depression, and learning how to drive your new car (managing your new sex drive). But its a common misconception that your sex drive will disappear forever you just need to figure out a NEW way to turn yourself on. Sexual intimacy becomes more than just a release, its actually hard for me to explain lol it just becomes.... more intricate than just getting a hard-on by seeing her naked or by being touched there.. it has a sort of sensitivity and tingling-all-over-the-body type of feeling... and even my wife who claims to be completely straight, says that our sex is "so much hotter" now lol

[Ginny]

As for being in the minority, it may depend on how you get your hormones. For instance, I should have clarified that I use the pellet method. This I get done by a Dr named O'dea based out in CA. On my first visit I was confused about not getting any AA and he told me they weren't needed and that progesterone (not progestin) is already slightly anti-androgenic. That combined with thr large amout of estrogen circulating pretty much made testosterone a non factor. The reason this doesn't work well for somebody who takes pills is because testosterone responds to other hormones spiking. The more you spike the more the testosterone also spikes.

As for arousal. I am no longer just aroused by something touching the head of the penis or naturally horny throughout the day,and having to releive it just to carry on as normal. This has actually been of great releif to me. However, if I were to think about cock right now, and I just did because I had to type it, then I get a strange tightening in my chest area, a tingling/tightening feeling in my lower abdomin, a slight pupil dialation, and my penis didn't get erect but it did get harder than it had been. And that was just from seeing and mentally imagining a cock for 2-3 sec. My point about this that I am trying to make, allst while embarrasing myself, is that your brain will find new ways to adjust to your hormone levels to allow you to have pleasure. Its the mental pathways involved and how the neurons fire that are going to "do it" for you. This is why it is said that the brain is the largest swx organ and trumps the actual sex organ.  This is also the reason that some people can have erections and suddenly stop having them even though they want to have them. There is something in the brain that is subcontiously preventing that erection, and if the person can discover what it is and how to correct their problem, then erections will once again resume.

For me just typing what I just did may have given me insight to my pre-HRT life. For instance I always thought of myself as asexual and not caring about either gender. I also spent a lot of time in sports and in general through the clubs I was in around other guys. And if you know about sports then you know that everyone gets hot and sweaty. I'm assuming now that I was in that perpetual state of horniness because I was around guys so much. However I didn't think of myself as homosexual and didnt know what transgendered was until I finally stumbled upon it from a news article three years ago. Its possible that subcontiously I always knew I was a woman attracted to men, but my brain didn't know how to process the information because there were missing key facts it itself needed to make the proper neueological connections. Due to this I was always horney due to the appropriate constant stimuli but not contiously being able to identify it.

Sorry about the end there, but when I start typing something and then discover, I have to explore less I forget about it. It also helps if you can keep rolling withthe same train of thought as more questions to yourself arise.
Again sorry, but hopefully part of this was usefull. I think I started it out alright.
~Jen

Ps: Thank you so much on starting this topic. I know it was 'nt your intention but I feel I'm able to inderstand my past a little bit better now because of you♥

[TerriT]

We still do it. But physically it is uncomfortable. Also, it's smaller. Also, barely a drop comes out. Sex is much different too. Not nearly as physical as before, much slower and intimate.

[ganjina]

Nice discussion stirring up here  !
I'll have to look into that pellet thing, never heard about it.

The description of how you girls got aroused previously versus now, is really surprising to me because  I almost never, ever, ever get turned on by getting touched or by seeing something, and never felt like going "OK LET'S DO IT!". Like if I had to do it to get a release or something. Quite disconnected to the pre-HRT penis thing and this urge you talk about, but I haven't started HRT yet! That has always been a major disconnect when am with a group of guys seeing a cute chick, and them getting turned on versus me being like aw she's really cute, but it's not like I want to bang her right now like an animal?

Actually the times I've really enjoyed the act is when it's more of an emotional, connexion, slow, sharing, intimate kind of thing, that could be definitely be a turn on. Sounds like my current, pre-HRT experience is so related and close to your post-HRT experience and feelings. How strange

Except I usually stacked all those pre-HRT issues Emmily was mentioning, the dysphoria, the chore thing, the depression. It's a long shot, but I'd bet than maybe post HRT in my mind it will not change that much then related to now? Maybe the sensitivity, the functional part, some feelings, and last but not least helping with the dysphoria stuff I hope?

This is really interesting, am feeling all curious now as to how nature work things out for us. Kind of a mix-up thing in my case.

PS: Also, glad to be of help .

[LittleEmily24]

Well, i think everyone has a different experience ~ but my sexuality had a complete overhaul.

- my fetishes and turn-ons went through a complete "reboot", all the things that turned me on before suddenly gave me no interest
- the way I feel being touched all over, or being spanked or having my butt grabbed, or kissing in certain places ~ have a HUGE effect on me now as opposed to before.
- I was never a "think with my d*ck" person, so its not like i was any much different than you.. I was always a long-term relationship, sex being a "special moment", never enjoyed talking about sex with my guy friends kind of person ( i would actually kind of get disgusted when they would go into detail about what they would "do" to a certain girl )

..but despite being as sexually timid as I was, it was never like how it is now lol its just a totally different experience; emotionally, mentally, physically, energetically lol... let me put it this way, back then sex (when it was enjoyable) i was silent and focused. Now, every time I have sex with my wife, I grab things, i close my eyes, I breathe hard, I MOAN at an uncontrollable volume level lol.. and i'm also way more sexually open (meaning that back then despite having turn-ons, i would never have admitted to them or suggested them at all, and now whenever i get the urge to try something new, i just suggest it like its nothing and i'm super open about what I like and what turns me on)

also; and i hope this isn't too graphic ~ something that just gets my heart pumping is when i get touched (or rather, "rubbed") down there and my wife treats that whole area as if it were already a vagina... even though i'm sure the feeling is completely different than how i imagine it is, the idea that she is doing that is such a huge turn on for me ~ there is absolutely no penetration, no definite or intense sensations... but I literally start getting all squirmy and tingly. Another thing that really gets me going is when she kisses or licks my nipples lol back then my nipples were a NO FLY ZONE... like seriously, it was one of those "stay the F away" areas.. i didnt like being touched there and if i did get touched there, it did absolutely nil for me.... now, im so incredibly sensitive there that whenever she plays around with me there I get the same tingling/squirmy feeling, or being grabbed on my waist also turns me on... i could go on to make a list of things that turn me on compared to before ~ the point is  that even when back then sex was an emotional experience for me, it was always mostly situated in the inclusion of ONE area; the genitals... now its just, everywhere lol (just thinking about it now makes me all light headed lol) <<< thats another thing, sexual thoughts never made me feel light headed or woozy in the past, i just use to get "erect" or turned on, now its like i get all dreamy and flustered lol

[Ginny]

Actually the times I've really enjoyed the act is when it's more of an emotional, connexion, slow, sharing, intimate kind of thing, that could be definitely be a turn on. Sounds like my current, pre-HRT experience is so related and close to your post-HRT experience and feelings. How strange

This is really interesting, am feeling all curious now as to how nature work things out for us. Kind of a mix-up thing in my case.

That right there. Some sort of emotional link, rather than another reason. Totally how my brain functions now, though triggers are a good way to jump start this. Because of this I may only get really aroused once to twice a month, most likely because i'm not with anyone and its an effort, though very worthwhile, for me to create a long enough mental scene with emotions and everything. At least it sounds like you may already be in this mentality.

And yes. I am a naturally curious person too and am constantly looking at how or why something works. Its one of my great fascinations. Have you discussed these or other issues with your therapist? Or is that also in the pre stage? For instance I think therapy in itself is a crock, in that only you can decide what is best for you. However, I do find it interesting from an intellectual standpoint in that I can rapidly bounce ideas and thoughts off the therapist without feeling judged, and I can quickly get something out there only to find out "wow! That seemed so much better in my head than if I expand on it verbally".

Add on to Emily: arg is seems we keep posting these WoT posts and it keeps asking me to resubmit.
I would just always leave when other guys would talk about sex as i never really felt comfortable with it. As for that "sqirmy" feeling from being touched thighs, neck, nipples, waist, and so on. I think thats the best  feeling in the world now. And then sometimes just feeling so weak that your legs feel like they are going to give. As for method of use, i concur that i get much more enjoyment from rubbing and thinking of it as a clit than from a penetrating motion. And omg dont even get me started on newfound kinks with tje old me having zero! Heck thats been probably more of my therapy time these days as neithrr of us ia conxernes about me transitioning anymore. When in the world did I want to be a s to a D? Oh my my my. The things you will learn when you become more open.

[Ginny]

My besty just brought an interesting thought to the table. What do you think its like for FtM transitioners? Do their emotions close up? Do they now prefer a thrusting motion as opposed to rubbing? Do they still find the same things pleasing or displeasing? I really think I should have gone into research. So many many unanswered questions or questions I didn't even know needed tp be asked.

[LittleEmily24]

My besty just brought an interesting thought to the table. What do you think its like for FtM transitioners? Do their emotions close up? Do they now prefer a thrusting motion as opposed to rubbing? Do they still find the same things pleasing or displeasing? I really think I should have gone into research. So many many unanswered questions or questions I didn't even know needed tp be asked.

Would it be unbecoming of me to ask it in a thread in the FTM section?