I think I'm transphobic... help

[sad panda]

What is a person supposed to do if they realize they are transphobic?

I have been thinking abt it and... well i definitely have internalized transphobia but I think I have transphobia in general too, and I think this is ultimately the reason I can't see myself not detransitioning in the future. I feel like it is eventually gonna end up as pretty much detransition or die. I don't want to be trans and don't want to be perceived as trans at all. It causes me so much grief. It is pretty nearly unrelenting.

I'm not trying to be awful by posting this here. I'm trying to learn and grow. But.. even if i want to stop being transphobic I don't feel like I can. Obviously i have tried, I have stuck around here for like 3? 4 years now? And seen a lot of people's transitions and talked to a lot of people about how they feel. I've even come out to a few people IRL about myself being trans when i used to swear I would never tell anyone. But, somehow I still feel all this subconscious negativity towards transition and being trans, and some part of me just cannot accept it.

Help? I don't want to be like this. What can i do?

It's so bad i can't even talk to therapists about it. I don't even want to be associated with trans things to someone i pay to not judge me... It got to the point that i was thinking of making some TERF friends who could hate on me just to have an outlet for how I feel. I mean, I know that transphobia is stupid and unacceptable but that doesn't make it go away. I'm feeling stuck in my own closed mind...

[Klaus]

Hatred of any kind starts from inside, but from your post it sounds like you're already well aware of that. Transitioning is about loving yourself enough to be who you are. If you choose not to transition, don't let it be because loving yourself is too difficult. The fact that you've considered specifically seeking out the company of people who hate you strongly suggests that's the reason. In my experience, the only people who hate others for being themselves are projecting self-hate.

There's no easy way to change, but it's definitely possible if you get to the root of why you have such negative feelings towards yourself. I'm not just talking about transition-related feelings, either. If you can't discuss those things with your therapist, I'd at least be honest with her about the way you feel about yourself if you haven't already. If you decide not to transition, do it because you love yourself. If you decide to transition, do it because you love yourself. Eradicating your transphobia from the outside in is pointless, but if you start from inside where the root of the problem is, hating other transgender people is going to become a non-issue.

I wish you the best. Being open to change is a step in the right direction.

[Ms Grace]

Cis centric society makes being trans out to be something beyond abnormal so it's no wonder trans people find themselves in such a conflicted place.

After I detransitioned in 1991 (for a whole range of reasons, one of which being I felt like a freak) I pretty much decided that "being trans was a mental illness that I had overcome"... yeah, pretty appalling. I never said that out aloud about other trans people although I know I thought it. Whenever I spoke about my trans history, which was very rarely, I framed it that I had only done it because I'd lost my marbles for two years and that I was "OK" now. Internalised transphobia or what??

Following my gender melt down in February last year I knew I wanted to transition to female, knew that I was female and knew that I had to do this and yet I was fearful of and loathing the idea of doing so. I was speaking to my gender counsellor and he simply challenged me on my inner transphobia. I couldn't deny it. I knew that anyone who was openly transphobic would disgust me, so why should be internalised position and posturing be any different, it deserved to be roundly condemned and evicted from my psyche, spat out like the vile toxin it was. And in that moment I felt OK about myself and about transitioning and other trans people. Yeah, that simple. Why? How? Because I wanted to. I refused to hate on myself for who I was, screw what cis centred society thinks.

[luna nyan]

Sad panda, I understand how you feel.

Everyone wants to be accepted and loved.
If you are from a social background where being trans is being part of a freak show, a child of the devil, insane, etc, then it is perfectly possible to be trans yet trans phobic.  It takes great conviction to leave a social group one has been part of for many many years.

I said to myself over 10 years ago, yes you are trans, but you're not trans enough to need to transition, go on HRT, and have surgery.  Most certainly, even now, I would admit that, but I have to recognise the fact that part of my decision at the time was due to my own internal trans phobia.  The one time I went to a meetup, I felt uncomfortable.

In the end, I could not deny myself completely and am on HRT for my sanity.  I've come to make peace with who and what I am, and have realised there is no pleasing some people and their prejudices.

[sad panda]

Hatred of any kind starts from inside, but from your post it sounds like you're already well aware of that. Transitioning is about loving yourself enough to be who you are. If you choose not to transition, don't let it be because loving yourself is too difficult. The fact that you've considered specifically seeking out the company of people who hate you strongly suggests that's the reason. In my experience, the only people who hate others for being themselves are projecting self-hate.

There's no easy way to change, but it's definitely possible if you get to the root of why you have such negative feelings towards yourself. I'm not just talking about transition-related feelings, either. If you can't discuss those things with your therapist, I'd at least be honest with her about the way you feel about yourself if you haven't already. If you decide not to transition, do it because you love yourself. If you decide to transition, do it because you love yourself. Eradicating your transphobia from the outside in is pointless, but if you start from inside where the root of the problem is, hating other transgender people is going to become a non-issue.

I wish you the best. Being open to change is a step in the right direction.

Wow Klaus, thank you. That was a really heartfelt reply.

I do think that you're right... it is self-hate. I wasn't bothered by trans-related things until I actually allowed myself to transition and it became a stain on my own being.

I grew up in a family that valued being normal more than anything, and yet more than anyone else i was always out of reach of being normal. I felt and was treated like a criminal for existing because i couldn't just be normal...

So it took a long time to allow myself to transition and ever since I did I have been in constant pain over how being trans makes me feel. And i started nitpicking myself and other trans people and all the ways they're not normal. I have tried to learn to love myself but it hasn't stuck yet. I don't love myself, nothing has helped me do that yet, and i want to believe that someday I will but, I don't know. :c

It's just like, if I'm never gonna love myself anyway at least I could make life easier by hiding in a cis boy presentation right? Idk. Unfortunately who I am is very not normal for a cis boy too.

[sad panda]

Cis centric society makes being trans out to be something beyond abnormal so it's no wonder trans people find themselves in such a conflicted place.

After I detransitioned in 1991 (for a whole range of reasons, one of which being I felt like a freak) I pretty much decided that "being trans was a mental illness that I had overcome"... yeah, pretty appalling. I never said that out aloud about other trans people although I know I thought it. Whenever I spoke about my trans history, which was very rarely, I framed it that I had only done it because I'd lost my marbles for two years and that I was "OK" now. Internalised transphobia or what??

Following my gender melt down in February last year I knew I wanted to transition to female, knew that I was female and knew that I had to do this and yet I was fearful of and loathing the idea of doing so. I was speaking to my gender counsellor and he simply challenged me on my inner transphobia. I couldn't deny it. I knew that anyone who was openly transphobic would disgust me, so why should be internalised position and posturing be any different, it deserved to be roundly condemned and evicted from my psyche, spat out like the vile toxin it was. And in that moment I felt OK about myself and about transitioning and other trans people. Yeah, that simple. Why? How? Because I wanted to. I refused to hate on myself for who I was, screw what cis centred society thinks.

I can't accept a screw cis society mentality... I mean, I want to be a part of cis society. Were you self-aware about your transphobic feelings before the therapist called you out on them?

Sad panda, I understand how you feel.

Everyone wants to be accepted and loved.
If you are from a social background where being trans is being part of a freak show, a child of the devil, insane, etc, then it is perfectly possible to be trans yet trans phobic.  It takes great conviction to leave a social group one has been part of for many many years.

I said to myself over 10 years ago, yes you are trans, but you're not trans enough to need to transition, go on HRT, and have surgery.  Most certainly, even now, I would admit that, but I have to recognise the fact that part of my decision at the time was due to my own internal trans phobia.  The one time I went to a meetup, I felt uncomfortable.

In the end, I could not deny myself completely and am on HRT for my sanity.  I've come to make peace with who and what I am, and have realised there is no pleasing some people and their prejudices.

So just going on HRT made you feel better? That's one thing I never quite got, what's the body dysphoria like? People act like it's hardwired into their brain when most trans people go a long time in life without hating their bodies and only start to when they get attached to being a different sex.

(I mean I get some body dysphoria, but it's out of fear of being rejected by people over how my body is)

[Nero]

People act like it's hardwired into their brain when most trans people go a long time in life without hating their bodies and only start to when they get attached to being a different sex.

That might be true for some. But others have this strong sense of body 'wrongness' even before they know what being trans is or that transition is an option. Like, my dysphoria during puberty was much more than just - 'I feel like a boy, so I shouldn't have tits and bleeding'. Much more visceral than that. Something inexplainable.

Some people do develop new dysphoria while transitioning, but I think that has a different cause. Like some guys start to get bottom dysphoria once the rest of them looks male.

[sad panda]

That might be true for some. But others have this strong sense of body 'wrongness' even before they know what being trans is or that transition is an option. Like, my dysphoria during puberty was much more than just - 'I feel like a boy, so I shouldn't have tits and bleeding'. Much more visceral than that. Something inexplainable.

Some people do develop new dysphoria while transitioning, but I think that has a different cause. Like some guys start to get bottom dysphoria once the rest of them looks male.

Hmmm... yeah, though I wonder, do you think that "I feel like a boy" could have later become an outlet for those feelings too, even if they were a little different than that, or more complex? I mean, a lot of cis people feel wrong about or hate certain body parts as well, and a lot of cis girls are horrified by puberty, you know? Without identifying as a boy or anything.

Sorry I'm not assuming anything though, just some thoughts, plus I know you're not really holding onto any insecurities about this so sorry if I'm being too nosy

I'm just trying to figure stuff out... I don't know. :/ I still don't even know why I transitioned anyway, at this point I kinda hate my past self for acting like I have to affirm gender roles and be a girl just to be me, even if the real alternative was pretty unforgiving too.

[Nero]

That might be true for some. But others have this strong sense of body 'wrongness' even before they know what being trans is or that transition is an option. Like, my dysphoria during puberty was much more than just - 'I feel like a boy, so I shouldn't have tits and bleeding'. Much more visceral than that. Something inexplainable.

Some people do develop new dysphoria while transitioning, but I think that has a different cause. Like some guys start to get bottom dysphoria once the rest of them looks male.

Hmmm... yeah, though I wonder, do you think that "I feel like a boy" could have later become an outlet for those feelings too, even if they were a little different than that, or more complex? I mean, a lot of cis people feel wrong about or hate certain body parts as well, and a lot of cis girls are horrified by puberty, you know? Without identifying as a boy or anything.

Sorry I'm not assuming anything though, just some thoughts, plus I know you're not really holding onto any insecurities about this so sorry if I'm being too nosy

I'm just trying to figure stuff out... I don't know. :/ I still don't even know why I transitioned anyway, at this point I kinda hate my past self for acting like I have to affirm gender roles and be a girl just to be me, even if the real alternative was pretty unforgiving too.

No, it's okay. I don't think physical gender dysphoria is something one can understand if they haven't had it. I mean, yeah most cis girls hate their bodies or aspects of their bodies. This is different. And I really don't know how I came to be trans - maybe happened in the womb, maybe not. I'm not really attached to any theory. But it's been there as long as I can remember. From at least 4 years old (and earlier, from relative accounts). I didn't really have genital dysphoria, but I had genital confusion at a young age. Puberty is where it got bad.

One of the issues being ftm is the fear or possibility of ingrained misogyny. I mean, we live in a world where being female is the inferior state of being and has been for all of recorded history. Instead of just dismissing that angle, I've tried to explore it. Is the physical dysphoria a symptom of internalized misogyny? All I know is whatever happened to make me trans, happened very early in life for me (and no I wasn't abused or anything). And I have no doubt that I was meant to transition, no matter how it came to be.

I know a lot of people might disagree with that, and I would have early in transition as well. But well, I've come to a point that the why doesn't matter anymore. If they autopsy my brain and discover I was never 'really' trans, that doesn't matter to me (deceased or otherwise lol). I still know I made the right and only choice I could have made.

[Ms Grace]

I can't accept a screw cis society mentality... I mean, I want to be a part of cis society. Were you self-aware about your transphobic feelings before the therapist called you out on them?

Definitely. I knew I was being a real douche but because I kept it secretly tucked away in my brain that apparently made it "alright". Being challenged on it just forced me to realise I was being duplicitous.

So Sad Panda, do you dislike other trans people? Is that why you want to join cis centric society, so you can jeer at us? If your answer is yes then you do indeed have transphobia, if the answer is no the question you should be asking is why do you hate yourself so much for existing...forget about whether it has anything to do with being trans or not.

[sad panda]

Hmmm... yeah, though I wonder, do you think that "I feel like a boy" could have later become an outlet for those feelings too, even if they were a little different than that, or more complex? I mean, a lot of cis people feel wrong about or hate certain body parts as well, and a lot of cis girls are horrified by puberty, you know? Without identifying as a boy or anything.

Sorry I'm not assuming anything though, just some thoughts, plus I know you're not really holding onto any insecurities about this so sorry if I'm being too nosy

I'm just trying to figure stuff out... I don't know. :/ I still don't even know why I transitioned anyway, at this point I kinda hate my past self for acting like I have to affirm gender roles and be a girl just to be me, even if the real alternative was pretty unforgiving too.


No, it's okay. I don't think physical gender dysphoria is something one can understand if they haven't had it. I mean, yeah most cis girls hate their bodies or aspects of their bodies. This is different. And I really don't know how I came to be trans - maybe happened in the womb, maybe not. I'm not really attached to any theory. But it's been there as long as I can remember. From at least 4 years old (and earlier, from relative accounts). I didn't really have genital dysphoria, but I had genital confusion at a young age. Puberty is where it got bad.

One of the issues being ftm is the fear or possibility of ingrained misogyny. I mean, we live in a world where being female is the inferior state of being and has been for all of recorded history. Instead of just dismissing that angle, I've tried to explore it. Is the physical dysphoria a symptom of internalized misogyny? All I know is whatever happened to make me trans, happened very early in life for me (and no I wasn't abused or anything). And I have no doubt that I was meant to transition, no matter how it came to be.

I know a lot of people might disagree with that, and I would have early in transition as well. But well, I've come to a point that the why doesn't matter anymore. If they autopsy my brain and discover I was never 'really' trans, that doesn't matter to me (deceased or otherwise lol). I still know I made the right and only choice I could have made.

I don't really know what to say other than that I wish I felt that sure of anything hah.

I don't have anything grounding me in my trans identity, other than that I have a lot more in common with girls and I'm more accepted as a girl, and I have a pretty deformed body for a guy... though it feels ugly for a girl to me too, but I know that's colored by feeling invalid.

I mean, I had a lot of very very intense body dysphoria in puberty, but it had more to do with being fat. I never had to think about how it would feel to look particularly masculine in any one way, though I don't think I would have minded either as long as I could have my own style... idk.  actually in spite of how un-guyish I looked, I felt better about my body as a boy because I didn't really look like anyone, there was nobody to compare to. I did still compare to other girls a lot, but I didn't think they expected me to look pretty in a conventionally female way at least.

[sad panda]

Definitely. I knew I was being a real douche but because I kept it secretly tucked away in my brain that apparently made it "alright". Being challenged on it just forced me to realise I was being duplicitous.

So Sad Panda, do you dislike other trans people? Is that why you want to join cis centric society, so you can jeer at us? If your answer is yes then you do indeed have transphobia, if the answer is no the question you should be asking is why do you hate yourself so much for existing...forget about whether it has anything to do with being trans or not.

No, it's not like I'm gonna run a trans hate campaign or deny trans people any rights, but I'm honestly not that optimistic about trans people ever finding acceptance and respect in the cis world, actually especially when cis people become more familiar with trans people, I just feel like trans people are usually pretty different than cis people of the same gender, that's honestly how I feel, I'm not trying to be mean or anything.

Not that being different is wrong, but I think it would be harder for cis girls to find common ground with trans girls than with other cis girls for example and that is a barrier to cis people empathizing with trans people.

But... I'm frustrated with the whole concept of gender in the first place... so, sigh

I hate myself for a lot of reasons, probably ultimately because I was raised by people who made me feel hated, but it's hard to get rid of core beliefs like that just b/c I am aware of them, you know?

[Nero]

I don't really know what to say other than that I wish I felt that sure of anything hah.

I don't have anything grounding me in my trans identity, other than that I have a lot more in common with girls and I'm more accepted as a girl, and I have a pretty deformed body for a guy... though it feels ugly for a girl to me too, but I know that's colored by feeling invalid.

I imagine the uncertainty would be tough. But you're young still. A lot of people don't know who they are at your age.

I mean, I had a lot of very very intense body dysphoria in puberty, but it had more to do with being fat.

Well, that makes sense. Kids can be really nasty. Overweight kids are an easy target. Weight can cause some dysphoria as overweight women are made to feel they're too big and unfeminine. And overweight men are seen as unmanly sometimes. Really, it's just a bias. Being thin works the same way - it can be seen as weak and effeminate on men and not womanly/curvy enough on women. Hardly anyone has the ideal male or female body.

Well, I'll put that question back to you - do you think being heavy as a kid and having dysphoria about it played any part in your gender issues?

I never had to think about how it would feel to look particularly masculine in any one way, though I don't think I would have minded either as long as I could have my own style... idk.  actually in spite of how un-guyish I looked, I felt better about my body as a boy because I didn't really look like anyone, there was nobody to compare to. I did still compare to other girls a lot, but I didn't think they expected me to look pretty in a conventionally female way at least.

This could well be a result of living perceived as female. Women are so scrutinized and so judged first and foremost on their appearance. By men and women. Everybody. It's sort of the female version of men being judged on behavior. A man has to act right. A woman has to look right.

[Ms Grace]

But... I'm frustrated with the whole concept of gender in the first place... so, sigh

I totally understand. Me too.

I hate myself for a lot of reasons, probably ultimately because I was raised by people who made me feel hated, but it's hard to get rid of core beliefs like that just b/c I am aware of them, you know?

Hug.

[sad panda]

I imagine the uncertainty would be tough. But you're young still. A lot of people don't know who they are at your age.
Well, that makes sense. Kids can be really nasty. Overweight kids are an easy target. Weight can cause some dysphoria as overweight women are made to feel they're too big and unfeminine. And overweight men are seen as unmanly sometimes. Really, it's just a bias. Being thin works the same way - it can be seen as weak and effeminate on men and not womanly/curvy enough on women. Hardly anyone has the ideal male or female body.

Yeah, I was judged a lot for my weight, mainly by my family, kinda made to feel less than human for a long time.

Well, I'll put that question back to you - do you think being heavy as a kid and having dysphoria about it played any part in your gender issues?

Probably not, I was pretty girly before I gained the weight too. I do think my body influenced my gender issues though, I mean, I wouldn't have transitioned if I were more physically masculine, and my weight may have influenced how my body turned out (being fat raises your estrogen levels, though it's nothing like being on HRT, probably just something like reverse PCOS, in fact I think that's actually the cause of PCOS if I remember right... extra estrogen shutting down the ovaries), so in a way I guess it could have. But then who knows, I could have suddenly gained so much fat in puberty because my body had some problem that also made it less masculine.

I mean, my body also probably influenced my identity, I was treated different than a lot of men, or often outright mistaken for a girl and stuff. And online I was usually just assumed to be a girl, and I never had guy friends. All the while I wasn't socializing as a boy really so it's hard to feel meant for either world, but somehow I never doubted that I was allowed to be a boy like I doubt that I'm allowed to be a girl. Or rather, I didn't worry that people would reject my status as a boy, or that I would be judged for saying I was a boy, or thought of as an invader into the world of boys, or whatever people would think.

This could well be a result of living perceived as female. Women are so scrutinized and so judged first and foremost on their appearance. By men and women. Everybody. It's sort of the female version of men being judged on behavior. A man has to act right. A woman has to look right.

Well, I mean I always felt I had to look right... I especially developed an intense, nagging sense of that when I was overweight, which turned into all out agoraphobia for a long time, but before I felt I had to look right as *myself*, now I feel I have to look like something I can't actually be.. I have to disguise my natural appearance. that's why it's so hard, I feel like the unwanted/lesser fake version. So even in my worst phases of stressing over how I looked before... I never hated my body nearly as much or on as fundamental of a level as I do now, you know?

Cuz for a cis girl, there's this message... (it's not a good one of course but there's this message) just fix yourself up and you can be pretty, if you live up to the standards of beauty set for girls, you will be loved... but for me, that's never possible.

We can never be " cis " if we choose to change. But who the f**k cares anyway ?

I'm sorry but, I care.

[jussmoi4nao]

There's not much to say. I don't know why everybody is trying to motivate you when you're not stupid, you know life sucks and you know exactly why it sucks for you and you know how you react to the suckiness and you know why you react that way, and you know that theres really very few alternatives to your personal sucky reality. Some things you can fix and others just..are.

Everybody trying to motivate you its like...its like trying to keep a feather in the air. You blow and blow and blw but gravity us bringing it down, because gravity is an uncheangeable reality. So unless you can change gravity somehow why not just let the feather fall to the ground? You'll never be able to fly, you ain't a bird, you ain't even *attached* to a bird no more...so just let it drop and let it chill with the dustmites. It's a weird analoigy, I know.

Point is trying to get better just adds exhaustion to the sadness. Cuz it's never gonna be alright. It's always going to be painful. Nothing you can do about that. But don't listen to the people who are trying to bring you up because if you do you'll just end up lonesome because people learn pretty quick who can and can't be saved, and they stop caring until it's too late (then after that they love you again and everybody scrambles to make like they never stopped).

But yeah. Hey at least you're a swans feather, tho. Grade A ->-bleeped-<-. You're beautiful so at least let yourself not be too extremely insecure about that...you do need SOME solaces after all.

[Jessica Merriman]

I don't know why everybody is trying to motivate you when you're not stupid

We do it because this is a support site and we are there for each other in good AND bad times. I personally have no problem talking to someone who has questions so my time is not WASTED at all. I would be offended if someone called me a grade A ->-bleeped-<- if my topic was about possibly having transphobia.

[jussmoi4nao]

We do it because this is a support site and we are there for each other in good AND bad times. I personally have no problem talking to someone who has questions so my time is not WASTED at all. I would be offended if someone called me a grade A ->-bleeped-<- if my topic was about possibly having transphobia.

Ohh, peshaw. I use "->-bleeped-<-" endearingly and SP knows that. It's just shorthand of transgender and way overblown imho.

And as for the other...umm okay. But what people don't realize is platitudes can make you feel isolated. The funny thing is it seems like 99% of people giving support give it more for themselves than the person they're giving it to. Sometimes girl needs reaal talk...not "it gets better" "you can do it" etc over and over.

[autumnwind44]

What is it about transgender/transsexualism that you feel uncomfortable with or do not like?

I dont like spiders, im arachnophobic but every now and then lately I do find myself looking an that minute black spec on the wall and wandering: "why?"

In doing so I feel alot more conscious of it but oddly, less scared of it.

Maybe internal questioning of the phobia could lead to either reasons for these feelings  or alleviation of some of these feelings.

Another interesting question is, would you be ok being trans if there were no one else in the world or is it others perception and judgement? (even if they dont say anything)

I would personally say that talking to a professional about this is usually the best way to go but I understand that you feel that you cant.
x

[sad panda]

There's not much to say. I don't know why everybody is trying to motivate you when you're not stupid, you know life sucks and you know exactly why it sucks for you and you know how you react to the suckiness and you know why you react that way, and you know that theres really very few alternatives to your personal sucky reality. Some things you can fix and others just..are.

Everybody trying to motivate you its like...its like trying to keep a feather in the air. You blow and blow and blw but gravity us bringing it down, because gravity is an uncheangeable reality. So unless you can change gravity somehow why not just let the feather fall to the ground? You'll never be able to fly, you ain't a bird, you ain't even *attached* to a bird no more...so just let it drop and let it chill with the dustmites. It's a weird analoigy, I know.

Point is trying to get better just adds exhaustion to the sadness. Cuz it's never gonna be alright. It's always going to be painful. Nothing you can do about that. But don't listen to the people who are trying to bring you up because if you do you'll just end up lonesome because people learn pretty quick who can and can't be saved, and they stop caring until it's too late (then after that they love you again and everybody scrambles to make like they never stopped).

But yeah. Hey at least you're a swans feather, tho. Grade A ->-bleeped-<-. You're beautiful so at least let yourself not be too extremely insecure about that...you do need SOME solaces after all.

Thanks Abby, you know how it is. I think it would be easier if I felt beautiful... hah, but I don't. I feel like a walrus. I'm gonna get skinny again and see where that gets me at least. last time I was skinny... yeah, I was basically pre-HRT. I'm tried of feeling like a blob of human. Right now I'm sorta just at the point of skinny or die, literally, if I can't start enjoying something in life it's going to stop being worth it, this is just painful, and not in a fun way.