Do anti-androgens...

[Mermaid]

Do anti-androgens change what you look like? I've been on mine for two months and don't know if much has changed... I want estro already but dunno if my endo will be kind enough *sigh*

Anyway, my libido's went down considerably (if not entirely), I get leg cramps and my shoulders are sore... also I think these muscles on the corners of my mouth are less pronounced now but that's about it... is anything supposed to be happening from being on anti-androgens alone? Because if so not much has been happening for me =/

[Flan]

In general no unless you don't mind waiting years for what little estrogen the body creates naturally to do something (and risk other health effects from not enough sex steroids of some kind).

(you should probably consume more water/electrolytes for the leg cramps)

[Misha]

I was on Androcur 50 first for 5 weeks before I got estrogens added to the mix. It did change my appearance a tiny bit but I have to add that based on blood tests I have unusual high levels of my own estrogens.

Skin quality change was quite noticeable and since I started to gain weight (finally :-) ) my face didn't look like I went through a gulag (I really looked like a corpse before HRT). Then loss of pigment on body hair and in general much slower body hair growth. If other exterior changes happened I didn't notice them.

And yes, my male libido dropped to 0 in just 20-25 days which I was grateful for. Antiandrogens effectively cause chemical sterilization so that is absolutely normal. And just after 3rd estrogen injection I got a new female libido which is much nicer :-) .

But what you describe about leg cramps and mouth muscles issue... Make sure you take a good look into the paper you got with your meds. Some side effects are seriously dangerous. The only negative side effect I had was serious drop in energy (which my therapist told me about while he handed over the prescription). And even now I have to sometimes sleep a total of 12 hours per day.

EDIT: When in doubt, ask your doctor. Sorry if I caused a scare but HRT isn't like taking a pain killer here and there.

[Ms Grace]

Won't do much at all to your appearance. Hopefully your endo will get you on some estrogen at some point soon, they're probably just wanting to get your T levels down before proceeding.

[Mermaid]

Uhm... I googled what cramps means and I don't really have that... Sorry, English isn't my native language. My legs just feel sore/tired all the time... Uhm...  Like when I wake up it feels like I exercised the day before and I really didn't... I feel tired a lot too and can fall asleep easy... Been napping every other day =/

Uhm... There's something that worries me though... My libido went down as expected, to the point where I had no desire for anything for weeks... However, like, when I did it, I noticed it was harder for me to get aroused and "its" smaller but ... I kind of came in 1-2 minutes? And not just once, I just feel very sensitive there and my orgasms are premature I guess? I'm really confused. I don't know if it's because I dropped my anti-depressants (which at the start really inhibited my ability to climax), or if it's because of my long abstinence from "doing stuff" for pleasure... I just don't understand? Shouldn't it be harder now for me to orgasm? I don't feel a need to do stuff but if I do I find myself squirming a little too fast lol....... Help?

[Dahlia]

AA only will shrink your pores and make your skin go smoother, because of lack of testosterone.

It will prevent going bald and thicken your hair a bit.

It will atrophy your muscles and yes, your 'muscle moustache' too.

But you'll need to take estrogen in the long run.

[Jennygirl]

After what my endo has told me in the past, I don't know why any doctor would put you on antiandrogens alone. Heck, he made it sound like he doesn't know why they are prescribed at all (unless overactive T receptors or abnormally high T level). The side effects sound gross

[E-Brennan]

I don't know why any doctor would put you on antiandrogens alone. Heck, he made it sound like he doesn't know why they are prescribed at all (unless overactive T receptors or abnormally high T level). The side effects sound gross

Me neither, but I'm getting the same treatment - antiandrogens first for a number of weeks, then estrogen.  The only thing I can think of (and god knows why I didn't ask in the appointment - I'll see what I can find out next time I go) is that the antiandrogens can be safely prescribed immediately without the need for any bloodwork to be done, but the estrogen needs to wait until the blood test results come back, and thus the subsequent appointment is when they are given.

And yeah, the effects are kinda gross.  Nothing cosmetic (although I swear I can see some tiny, tiny changes), and mostly they just strip away the effects of testosterone without providing any replacement.  There's been a few occasions where I've wanted to react to something either by getting angry (male) or by crying (female), but couldn't do either because I'm literally emotionally numb right now and it made the frustration even worse.  And I'm physically weak too - it's surprising how much of our strength depends on having a decent level of testosterone in our systems.  Removing the testosterone without giving estrogen has made me into a wimpy version of the guy I was before, which is an even less attractive life to be living.  I will be begging for estrogen when I return to the endo.

It will atrophy your muscles and yes, your 'muscle moustache' too.

What is a muscle mustache?  I Googled it and it came up with pictures of bodybuilders with mustaches...

[Misha]

After what my endo has told me in the past, I don't know why any doctor would put you on antiandrogens alone. Heck, he made it sound like he doesn't know why they are prescribed at all (unless overactive T receptors or abnormally high T level). The side effects sound gross

If I were to combine my initial reactions to Androcur  and then to Neofollin ... I think that would have knocked me out to sick leave. In my case the 5 week wait was actually my choice so that first the body could get used to one medicament and not stressing it with both at once right from the start.

And I also didn't like the idea of my body serving as a battleground for sex hormones. After all testosterone and estrogens negate one another. So it first got nicely cleaned up :-) .

[Mermaid]

What is a muscle mustache?  I Googled it and it came up with pictures of bodybuilders with mustaches...

Muscle mass above your upper lip... Easy to notice if you take pictures with poor lighting, you'll see your moustache area is highlighted, making it look like you have shadow there, but your skin could be clean of any hair -.- It's annoying...

[Jennygirl]

After all testosterone and estrogens negate one another.

Bingo!

It doesn't seem to make sense why antiandrogens should be necessary at all (unless an extreme case of T absorption). Someday, hopefully soon, endocrinologists will wise the heck up.

I've never taken an antiandrogen in my lifetime and I never will

[E-Brennan]

I was always under the impression that having testosterone and estrogen "battling" in the body for dominance was rather like driving a car with the parking brake on.  You can get it to go in the right direction, but it's far easier if the parking brake is released; you need to give it far less gas to move where you want to go.  Of course, that's a gross simplification - and probably wrong as a result - but it was enough to get me to stop asking questions in the endo's office and take my spiro like a good little boy/girl.

[Ltl89]

I don't think AA's on their own do all that much physicially.  They are supposed to be used in conjunction with estrogen; however, lowering you T level has to have some impact on you to, so don't be shocked by any effects that occur.   

[Allyda]

Because I'm intersexed I already had natural estrogen receptors and very low T when I started my hrt. For that reason I was given my Anti Androgen , Estradiol Valerate, and my Spiro in the beginning. My E though has been increased slowly and during web communications with my Endo when I see him again on the 3rd my E will be increased again to the max for full transition and also, my delivery method for my E will be switched from orals to either shots or pellets.

I asked him about the pellets after hearing you describe how much better they are Jennygirl in another thread.

My initial tests shown that it seems sometime in my recent past my body started producing E on it's own at levels high enough to suppress T, which probably explains why around 5 years ago I could no longer pass for male no matter how hard I tried or what I wore. Which is why I went full time long before starting hrt/my full transition.

The Dutasteride (AA) was necessary in my case due to a feminine hair loss pattern I had developed while the E vs. T battle raged on inside my body unknowingly to me. I had developed a couple of thin areas on the top left side of my head. 3 days after beginning my hrt with Dutasteride included my hairloss stopped abruptly and reversed. My hair is filling in nicely in those areas and you can no longer see my scalp unless my hair is wet in those areas, and my hair overall has thickened and growing very fast.

I only describe my experience to show how each of us has different body chemistry, and therefore will require an hrt regimen designed to each person's individual needs. Some of us can have excellent results on E alone, while others will need a little extra help from Anti Androgens. It is up to your Endochronologist, or other Doctor monitoring your hrt progress to determine these factors to give each of us the best resulting feminization based on each of our individual body chemistry.
I hope this helps a little.

Ally

[antonia]

I'm currently on Androcur only, the current best practise here in Canada is 5-6 weeks of blockers and then add estrogen, the theory is to make sure your body copes with the anti-androgen they prescribe, if you have an adverse reaction they can switch you to a different anti-androgen without having to worry if your bad reaction was to the estrogen or the anti-androgen, change one variable at a time, give it time to balance out and then change the next variable.

As far as the cramps go, I assume you are on Spiro, if this is a correct assumption keep in mind that it's primary use is as a diuretic, it makes your kidneys flush out water from your body which means you have to be careful to keep hydrated, watch your potassium levels (from going too high, salt substitutes, bananas, etc), this is especially true when exercising.

The physical changes will be minimal, think pre puberty, you will notice some male specific things go away such as libido, the smell of your sweat/urine will change, hair loss will stop and your skin will soften.

[Misha]

Bingo!

It doesn't seem to make sense why antiandrogens should be necessary at all (unless an extreme case of T absorption). Someday, hopefully soon, endocrinologists will wise the heck up.

I've never taken an antiandrogen in my lifetime and I never will

Lucky you Jennygirl :-) . I'll consider myself lucky if I won't need Androcur after SRS.

Given my initial testosterone levels comparable to sportsman on steroids (which surprised me given also my elevated levels of own estrogens) I doubt I would look how I look right now but we'll never know as I don't intend to go back and try again :-) .

I don't remember the exact numbers but above a certain number taking estrogens alone will lead to very slow progress since estrogens have weak anti-androgenic effects which for some is enough..

EDIT: Since I'll most likely drop programming after all is done I thought also about getting a degree from a medical university. Hmmm, why not actually become an endocrinologist? There aren't that many in Czech and I think a doctor's coat would look great on me :-) .

[Allyda]

EDIT: Since I'll most likely drop programming after all is done I thought also about getting a degree from a medical university. Hmmm, why not actually become an endocrinologist? There aren't that many in Czech and I think a doctor's coat would look great on me :-) .

I think this is a very nobile and wonderful idea. Your right,  a Doctor's coat would look great on you! Go for it girl!!

Best wishes!

Ally

[Misha]

I think this is a very nobile and wonderful idea. Your right,  a Doctor's coat would look great on you! Go for it girl!!

Best wishes!

Ally

Thanks Ally! I think you made me blush :-) .

[Allyda]

Hey girl you look great. I feel it's a very nobile idea and commitment to go to medical school so you can help other trans folks in your area. Kudos to you girl!!

Ally