Fashion and Gender

[ativan]

I just ran across this, it's a week old, but I just saw in in my news sideline stuff.
Kind interesting and follows some of the comments in different topics.
We've seen fashion runways with androgynous styles...
This article brings the question of gender down a notch or two.
Something I think is important to societies acceptance of the T community as a whole.
In other places I have been talking about the difference of the demanding of acceptance vs an understanding.
In some ways, the GLB demanded acceptance, leaving out the T as to much for society to accept.
Our time is coming, it's happening. I think we will gain acceptance.
But to truly have acceptance, an understanding is key to a longer lasting, even permanent acceptance.
Fashion plays a huge role in our community as a whole, we comment on it all the time.
This is a good article, just something to think about.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/20/clothes-aren-t-for-men-and-women-anymore-they-re-just-for-people.html
Ativan

[awilliams1701]

I've never seen any evidence that its ok for a man to wear a skirt in the USA. Even im like eww I don't want to see your junk. This is ridicules of course because you shouldn't see girls parts either unless they don't care. I think its more about showing off those awesome legs and there is nothing awesome about hairy legs. That and quick access to the goods.

[sad panda]

I've never seen any evidence that its ok for a man to wear a skirt in the USA. Even im like eww I don't want to see your junk. This is ridicules of course because you shouldn't see girls parts either unless they don't care. I think its more about showing off those awesome legs and there is nothing awesome about hairy legs. That and quick access to the goods.

I find this post pretty disturbing...

[kira21 ♡♡♡]

me too tbh!

[ativan]

From the front, there is no doubt that I'm male.
For fun, because I am on occasion mistaken as female from behind, I had a friend follow me through the park, taking photos along the way.
Not a single comment was made.
I think it was the camo pattern that scared them off more than my legs. 
But that was way back in august of 2012...
I'll leave this avatar up for awhile, but since my hair is longer and I've been losing some of that waist, it just feels a little dated to me.
I do know how to sit, walk, run and stand with a short skirt, and I don't want you to see my 'junk' any more than you do.
Ativan

*I live in Michele Bachmanns district, pretty conservative place. We even have our own little hate group in the area...
So it's not exactly the best place to be walking around in a skirt. I did wave to the Sheriffs deputy as he did his rounds of the parking lot.
He waved back...

[sad panda]

You look pretty fab in a skirt! We definitely need more men wearing skirts, cuz why wouldn't we? By the way, I'm pretty astounded that people with this phobia could have *not* realized that they already see men's legs like on a daily basis... y'know, in shorts.

[awilliams1701]

I've been trying to get over it, but I have a lifetime of training that says men don't wear skirts. I've been trying to put it past me since I found out about myself a Month ago. Its actually easier for me to accept everyone here as trans girls wearing skirts than a man wearing a skirt. I've come a long way in a month, but I still have a long way to go. I'm actually ok with being trans now, but a month ago I said I wished I was gay instead of trans. I don't feel that way anymore.

[Satinjoy]

My goodness Ativan, what an amazing pic

More later, need to think, may actually not be my long suit on a topic

If I get those results on my hormones I will kiss the endo

[ativan]

I've been trying to get over it, but I have a lifetime of training that says men don't wear skirts. I've been trying to put it past me since I found out about myself a Month ago. Its actually easier for me to accept everyone here as trans girls wearing skirts than a man wearing a skirt. I've come a long way in a month, but I still have a long way to go. I'm actually ok with being trans now, but a month ago I said I wished I was gay instead of trans. I don't feel that way anymore.

It's all good. I did make a little snarky comeback, but it wasn't meant to be anything other than fun.
You're most certainly welcome to join in the conversations here, we're pretty easy to deal with.
The non-binary section is a pretty caring place for a lot of people, a good place to learn about things that might be of importance to you.
I took your comment to probably be just as you explain it here.
I hope you accept mine as just having fun and an excuse to put up a pic.
The article to me is a sign of understanding and acceptance, something that is important for all of us.
Ativan

[Satinjoy]

Its a long journey AW and the first part is coming out of denial and finding self acceptance.  This is a kind place in a kind forum where you can find it.  And many of us are very sensitive about our presentations, especially me... we had to unlearn a lot of stuff to get healthy

Be well.

I triggered on the pic, quite intensely, physical dysphoria is truly nothing to take lightly.  I want to look like that, and I actually am getting there.  I am also apparently very high on estrogen cypionate right now.... my levels are peaking and have been all day...

Be well dear hearts, and safe

[awilliams1701]

Its hard with text only to know how someone reacts to something.

I'm not sure where my homophobia came from, but it vanished when I met a gay guy.
I was never lesbiaphobic (if that's even a word), which I know is a double standard.
I don't get bisexuals, but by the time I had heard of them I was mo longer homophobic and as such was perfectly ok with them.
I'm not sure where my transphobia came from, but until now its not something I've ever been faced with other that me fleeing anytime an issue regarding my gender came up. After seeing sites like this my transphobia is now vanishing as well. That isn't to say I still have a few issues left, but like I said I came a long way in a month. I actually now regret that I've never met any trans people in person. However who knows maybe I have.

I'm not sure where my phobias came from but it wasn't the way I was raised. I think it was from either Hollywood or peer pressure.

now that I'm more accepting, I think everyone on this site is awesome.

[Satinjoy]

They are dear

Also if you don't have a good gender therapist, your time has come, they are quite valuable

And for Ativan, I hope I did not embarrass you, its all meant as a compliment, and I always wondered what you were like, I couldn't read into it on the posts.  I already stabilized anyway.....

Blessings to all

By the way I'm bi, but don't act on it.  We are all kinds of things, and once physical changes come, good luck figuring out les, bi, gay, etc....  just humans, spirits in bodies, and needing nifty decorations

I am off topic.  Sorry about that.  Fashion puzzles me but in full transition I always look like a 70's lady, that's my era.

By the way the shrink says we gravitate to clothes of the decade of our puberty.  True in my case.  Thoughts?

[helen2010]

AW

Congratulations on your rapid progress.  Took me years to accept that I was anything other than  a normal alpha male with an  unusual preoccupation or attraction (rarely acted on) to/with cross dressing.   My understanding seemed to progress slowly but moved, in retrospect, in lock step with the growth of the internet and improving therapies.

Any way now in my mid 50's and am only now understanding my identity.  A hell of a journey - stressful; sometimes fraught and angst ridden; often frustrating and confounding;  but as I look back it has been revelatory and transformative.  I like me, I better understand me and I am now ok with finding my own paths; part on curiosity and whimsy; but mainly because the climate feels better, the view or perspective more compelling and the fellow travellers more similar in spirit and ambition.

I no longer think in terms of black and white, pink or blue, male or female.  I am less staccato.  I seek to sense the flow and allow it to carry me for a while, I hear the music, I see more colour, texture and nuance - I am increasingly entranced and engaged, and love this life.  It still feels that I am a relative infant but my steps are becoming more bold as I understand who I am, and may become,  as non binary.

Clothes, presentation and expression are becoming more and more important to me.  They say that "clothes maketh the the man",  but in my case they "expresseth the non binary".  Acting on Ativan's earlier advice I have been amazed by the power of even minor changes in cut, color, style, fabric, accessory, or hair etc in better expressing or hinting at my identity.   As a fashion newbie this part of my journey promises to be a whole lot of fun and discovery.

Safe travels

Aisla

[helen2010]

By the way the shrink says we gravitate to clothes of the decade of our puberty.  True in my case.  Thoughts?

SJ

Not so much for me.  Really quite andro which I can't recall from my experience of 70's fashion. 

Aisla

[ativan]

I didn't think about any possible triggers from the pic.
I know it was a compliment, but I'm taking it down just the same.
It was only meant to be temporary, and I let my narcissism get the better of me.
awilliams, you hang around, people who are new to the community have valuable insights for others who are new as well.

Back to the article... the real topic here. It's not like we don't go off topic, yah know? 
Ativan

*my fashion sense comes from having a sense of fun while in private with a friend.
My sense of street clothes come from Rosa, who was more than a friend in her floor length dress's that were a wonderful swirl of color and her beauty, when she would show off for me by twirling once, back in the early 70's when I was trying to man-up and she was just trying to be the woman she was and wanted to be.

[ativan]

<----- *not really me, but hey... I kinda feel like that some days. 

[ativan]

I'm pretty astounded that people with this phobia could have *not* realized that they already see men's legs like on a daily basis... y'know, in shorts.

Some of their hairy legs would look better shaved, but god point!

[awilliams1701]

That's the plan. I feel like just raw information wise, I THINK I know what to expect for HRT, GRS and many other areas, but I think I'm at the point where I don't even know what questions to ask. I start therepy next week and its my hope for it to be positive and something I'll want to periodically have to help with the social aspects of the transition and anything unexpected that pops up (which hopefully won't be between my legs). I'm also hoping I can get started on HRT right away instead of waiting. I've only known about being trans a month and my dislike of my male components only has gotten worse.

I didn't think about any possible triggers from the pic.
I know it was a compliment, but I'm taking it down just the same.
It was only meant to be temporary, and I let my narcissism get the better of me.
awilliams, you hang around, people who are new to the community have valuable insights for others who are new as well.

Back to the article... the real topic here. It's not like we don't go off topic, yah know? 
Ativan

*my fashion sense comes from having a sense of fun while in private with a friend.
my sense of street clothes come from Rosa, who was more than a friend in her floor length dress's that were a wonderful swirl of color and her beauty when she would show off for me, back in the early 70's when I was trying to man-up and she was just being the woman she was and wanted to be.

[Kendall]

Well even kilt wearing guys wear high socks normally just bellow the knee, which covers most hair on legs.

Its been said, many European women didn't start shaving their legs until the late 90s.

Kendall

[ativan]

I feel like just raw information wise, I THINK I know what to expect for HRT, GRS and many other areas, but I think I'm at the point where I don't even know what questions to ask.

I mentioned this the other day on another topic, that the fastest way to find the topics of interest for you is to use the little search box up there at the top right of every page.
Put in the word of your interest, press enter and whalla! (is that a word?) a list of topics that have that word in them pops up.
It's one thing to find raw information, another to read about others experiences and views of that information.
It would be easy to say that this forum has the most information in one place than any other place, when it comes to opinions and viewpoints.
It also gives a good perspective of how a lot of things have evolved in recent times (I'm not sure how far back some topics go)
A few days worth of reading, and scanning through, topics will not only provide those perspectives, but probably bring together the questions you might have.
You might also have altogether new questions and the process is the same.
The current topics are just the tip of the wealth of information from the people who use this forum.
Look through back pages of any section that is of interest, also. Page numbers behind the front pages are at the top and bottom of the list of topics.
The information can be overwhelming, and people will help as much as they can, but it's up to you how much and how fast you'll find what your looking for.
The better the key words in the search boxes, which you'll get used to different terms and such, the more refined your searches, so the more refined your questions will be.
Don't forget about the chat, or the wiki (another source of info).
At first glance there doesn't seem to be all that much here, but once you start to look at the forum in depth, it has an amazing amount of information.
Not to forget the Mods who do a good job of keeping this forum running in a manner that everyone benefits from. Keeping it friendly...
If you haven't tried some of these different things out, you're gonna be having fun finding out just who you are and what this community is about. 
Ativan