What kind of man/guy are you? Do you want to become? And how did you get there?

[sylvester06]

Hey guys,
Been lurking for a month or so and finally emerged to ask some questions.

I went to my first meeting with a gender therapist a couple of days ago and something she said really struck me so I wanted to hear some of your experiences/thoughts.

I'm pretty sure I'm an ftm - throughout my life I've had thoughts about being male and I've been having a lot of physical dysphoria for the past year. But, I'm struggling with the idea that if I'd transition I'd become a straight white male (though I'm also terrified of HRT making me gay). I'm pre T and for the past 2 years, I've passed probably 60% of the time and I have no idea how people are reading me – presumably straight, but gay men have hit on me a couple of times.

Anyway, while talking to the therapist, some of my family history came out:
1. A father who was physically there, but couldn't express any emotions (or recognize my thoughts/feelings as being valid). I completely cut him out of my life at 14, tried to repair the relationship around 19, but since he couldn't make steps that would make it a healthier relationship, I haven't communicated with him since. I'm 24.
2. And for 4-5 years in my childhood I had stepfather who was verbally abusive.

I'm an only child, so with the exception of about 4 years, it was only my mother and I living together until I went to college.

The therapist made the comment that it was no wonder that I was having trouble seeing myself as a straight male (even though I exclusively like women), because I had those examples to model myself after. I think that some of that explains some of the struggle that I'm having.

I'd like to be/become a straight man that can recognize my privilege, that can recognize the needs of minority groups, that can use my position in helpful way, and one that is comfortable expressing and dealing with emotions. But, I think that I can count the number of straight men that I knew that fit those criteria on one hand, and I don't know any guys like that now.

I know that if I start HRT, I'm just going to be myself and see what happens, but the identity thing is just throwing me right now (personal history + too much queer theory in college lol).

So, questions:
1. What kind of man/guy do you see yourself as?
2. What kind of man/guy do you want to become (post HRT or just as self improvement)?
3. How did you become the type of man that you are now (especially if you didn't have many male role models)?
4. Any advice for me?

[Felix]

I've seen this question come up at support groups for transmen. Usually all I can say is that I got a lot of guidance and reference points from fictional characters.

I remember almost desperately grasping at straws for male role models as a kid. I like my dad but he never talked a lot or showed a lot of emotion, and he was almost completely out of my life by the time I was a teenager. I used to daydream about being (or being adopted by) Data or Captain Picard from the second star trek series, or Q. Or Spock from the older one. Or David Bowie after seeing Labyrinth. I wasn't really allowed to listen to secular music, but the novels and comic books I read weren't policed as carefully. I liked science fiction and horror, and I looked up to a lot of the authors, particularly Isaac Asimov, Neil Gaiman, and Ray Bradbury. Pre-internet it was easier to idolize strangers, just knowing they wrote the stories that made my life what it was. When I got out from under my parents' supervision but was still a young teenager I got more into music, and I looked up to Trent Reznor and GG Allin and Lou Reed. And others. I tried a lot of drugs, and learned all I could about Timothy Leary, Terence Mckenna, Sasha Shulgin, and Carl Sagan and his wife.

I'm going to stop listing every random person I spent time infatuated with, but there were so many more. As a young person I was fixated on finding better worlds than my own and figuring out why they were better and if I could make any of those details real, and obsessed with finding people who seemed good and worth patterning myself after. I had a childlike belief that the whole world would be better if we could know more and find ways to fix things, and I was angry that people didn't seem to care. I was socially immature far later than I should have been, and so I was not aware at the time that nerding out so hard on what is typically just entertainment was not what any of the socially successful kids were doing.

Seeking so hard was not healthy, but I was able to get some good out of all the pop culture scavenging. All the fictional people I came across had problems and weren't perfect, and they talked about and tangled with their faults and other obstacles transparently, the way real people don't. I got tactics and ideas about what is normal and warnings about what to possibly expect, and that helped immensely.

So I made who I am by overlaying my intense ideas about being noble and ethical and kind over a zillion little anecdotes in books about how people behave in various circumstances. I no longer limit myself so severely to any particular genre of literature or music, so I have ongoing input that is less charged and more broadly applicable.

---
TL;DR 
1. I see myself as a lazy/twitchy white american who is as healthy and polite as he can manage. I try to keep my beliefs about most things unobtrusive, but I speak up when my comments can make someone safer or if I think it might help someone who isn't talking but whose identity is being slandered. I try to avoid wearing visible logos or brand names, and I would be embarrassed if I thought my clothing looked expensive. I'm out of shape, and I vacillate between pale and sunburned. The older I get, the more I look like the kind of random douchebag guy I would not want to talk to.
2. I want to become a more typical gay guy, without feeling like I have to apologize for my body. I would like to be ready with a graceful answer and my confidence intact if I get rejected or made fun of for my genital configuration. Sometimes I'm good at that, but it feels pretty bad when I'm not.
3. I became the type of man I am very crazily, pasting details I liked onto a very few core non-negotiables. I try to guide further alterations to my body or character as an adult with evidence-based assumptions and logic.
4. I had a child when I was 18, and I've spent my life since then trying to give her the best life I could. She is disabled. Usually if I'm on this forum it is because I'm trying to balance my sanity with her need to have nonstop supervision and guidance. Anything I say is heavily influenced by my circumstances. My advice is to be practical about what you care about and what works for you, and throw out any outside opinions or advice that doesn't fit your values or situation.

[LordKAT]

So, questions:
1. What kind of man/guy do you see yourself as?

A man like any other.

2. What kind of man/guy do you want to become (post HRT or just as self improvement)?

The usual, wiser, kinder, smarter, etc.

3. How did you become the type of man that you are now (especially if you didn't have many male role models)?

IDK

4. Any advice for me?

Be yourself, don't look to others to define you. You know the difference between right and wrong, so use it.

[campenella]

1. What kind of man/guy do you see yourself as?
A normal if determined person

2. What kind of man/guy do you want to become (post HRT or just as self improvement)?
Well the person I'd like to be is more educated and less naive about the world. There are many things I need education in and I'm less afraid to do them.

3. How did you become the type of man that you are now (especially if you didn't have many male role models)?
My mother was a huge influence on me and my late father. My father was one of the strongest, kindest people I knew and my parents both had gender nonconformist things about them. It helped me establish myself as a person who can be comfortable in his own skin.

4. Any advice for me?
(this will be long)

Queer and identity politics are very damaging. You don't identify as trans to step into privilege, identity means nothing when it comes to being trans: meaning calling yourself trans isn't a free pass into privilege and oppression. But have some transphobia and homophobia free of charge 

It can be freeing to realize that you are trans, but it also means you understand dysphoria or the looming thought of insurance+healthcare. It also means that you cannot choose to be trans, you can choose to transition. Identity always implies that trans people have the choice of being trans; and if we had the choice I think many of us would choose to not be trans but to be a person who was comfortable with their sex.

Many people who transition don't want to be 'white men' because that's a position of power and they don't want to oppress women and minority groups but you don't have to always be afraid of privilege. You also don't defacto just start oppressing women. Learning how to give women and minorities the space they need while not being afraid to have a space for yourself is important. Being an ally isn't about self sacrifice, it's about coexistence. Being white isn't a curse: as long as you give minorities space we can tell and have mutual respect for each other.

I think queer politics teaches you that if you move to a place of power by transitioning that you are a bad person because of faulty logic: "patriarchy is bad because it gives men overall a sense of entitlement over women and teaches them that they should try and silence women, men are institutionally a source of oppression, trans men are men, therefore trans men are oppressors."

Queer theory I feel doesn't teach institution vs individual and doesn't teach intersectionality very well, it usually just translates into putting people into different castes versus teaching us that we all have privilege someone and to treat people as people instead of being afraid of ourselves.

[Natkat]

I don't agree that saying you identify put a mark on who say you can change. You can also identify as pretty much everything which is changeable or non changeable. it not very easy to change from black to white for exemple, but a black person can change to identify as black and not identify so
--
getting back on topic:

1. What kind of man/guy do you see yourself as?
lazy, old nerd... which should move his butt some more for this summer.

2. What kind of man/guy do you want to become (post HRT or just as self improvement)?
im already on T and had surgery and beside my hair (which need to be cut) im in general satifyed with
how my body turn out. speaking of a personal matter I want to be more independent and knowlegde of the world. I also want to be more "me" and less an expectations on how I should be but I think this is a general
problem.

3. How did you become the type of man that you are now (especially if you didn't have many male role models)?
I been very activist minded due to where I grew up I got to meet alot of people from diffrent backgrounds.
I also got to meet other transpeople when I was around 17 and it have got a huge inpact in my life. before that
time I had my friends to suport me, one of my early lovers told me I should be a fighter and another was always there for me to laugh and talk openly.

4. Any advice for me?
male privilige is a mix of something you atomantically got and something you own.
If you are scared of getting previliges then train yourself in seeing when you got them and when you dont.
its not wrong having privilige, you just need to know that not everyone got these.
you can ask yourself critical questions, and get invold in the things which matter to you. being a white man
dosent mean you are then forbidden to join the fight in sexism or rasism or other matters.

most importan just be yourself.

[Edge]

1. What kind of man/guy do you see yourself as?

I could ramble for a long time about the kind of guy I am.

2. What kind of man/guy do you want to become (post HRT or just as self improvement)?

Physically? I'd like to get more in shape and I'd also like to get a couple more tattoos. Although I am learning to accept my feminine features, I hope hrt and getting in shape help make me more obviously a guy.
Personality-wise, I already am the guy I want to be. There are some things I want to work on, but I'm pretty happy with who I am.

3. How did you become the type of man that you are now (especially if you didn't have many male role models)?

I'm guessing a combination of predisposition and life experiences. I'm my male role model. I also use fictional characters as role models, but since I only like them because they have traits I have and/or value, it really comes back to being my own role model.

4. Any advice for me?

Forget stereotypes. You don't have to be one. Be who you are instead.

[King Malachite]

1. What kind of man/guy do you see yourself as?

I see myself as a typical guy. 


2. What kind of man/guy do you want to become (post HRT or just as self improvement)?

I want to become a married man that is able to take care of his wife.  I want to be a hard-working man.


3. How did you become the type of man that you are now (especially if you didn't have many male role models)?

By increasing my faith and spirituality and seeking the Bible for a guidance into manhood.


4. Any advice for me?

Be honest with yourself.  Once you realize who you really are (and not what others want you to be), your vision of where you want to be in life can become so much clearer.  You may also find more peace within yourself.

[Bastian]

I have never had anyone in my immediate life who I looked to for a role model. So instead I found them on BBC and made my own family of role models.

When I was first starting to realize that this sheep was not like the others I found the comedian Eddie Izzard, who is a very out cross dresser from the UK who is also very straight (or male lesbian as he prefers). He became my first true role model. Nothing made sense at that time. I could see myself being with a man in my future but not as a woman. But I knew that I wasn't straight (f/m) so I tried to force myself to become lesbian which worked out as well as you can imagine before I threw up my hands and gave up for the better part of two years.

When I finally posted about all the stuff that was going on with me on a teen's help forum, it was suggested that perhaps I was trans. I was freaked out. I thought no way in hell. But then I found Eddie and I saw him and thought "You're really cool and everyone, even back in the 90's loved the ->-bleeped-<- out of you. Not in-spite of your differences but because you are different. You're a cross dressing guy and you are pretty damn cool." and then I stopped being so scared. I figured if Eddie could do it than so could I, but as a transman.

After than I 'met' John Barrowman. The flamboyant gay man who would be damned if he wasn't allowed to play a flamboyant pansexual on television for the world to see and just plane deal with. He gave me the confidence I needed to not be afraid of my sexual emotions and feelings. It didn't matter who I loved or was attracted to because if the world didn't like it, the world could just plan deal with it anyways.

And then I came upon Mr. Stephan Fry whose heartbreaking depression was something I could relate to. It was because of him and his famous letter to his fans regarding one of his many failed suicide attempts that I realized I could not just sympathize but perfectly understand what he was saying in that letter. Because of him I realized I suffered from sporadic and incomprehensible depression. It's a build up of little things that can ruin all the good things in a moment, and it doesn't matter how great our lives seem to others, sometimes there's nothing in the world that can tear away the crippling sadness. But that's ok too.

He taught me that even when it hurts, it's the good things in life, the ones that pull you back out of the raging sea of melancholy that matter, at least in those moments. He taught me that it's ok to be sad, it's ok to be depressed and shut down even when life seems good. He gave me the comfort of knowing that there are others out there, even National Treasures like Stephan Fry who get sad and depressed and feel like lifes not worth living. He gave me the comfort of knowing that while not everyone thinks about death almost every day of their lives, those of us who do, exist, and that's ok too. Because of him, i'm at my happiest in the in-between periods and now I know when the bad times are coming and I know how better to deal with them and I know that it's not some taint of my existence but that there are others like me who get it.

Now then to answer your questions:
1. What kind of man/guy do you see yourself as?
I see myself as polite and kind. A guy who would rather be bit than kill a mosquito. Who saves the spiders and sets them free when others want to step on them. Who will stop on the side of a highway and ask if the stopped car is alright. Someone who just wants to please everyone, even if it means he gets hurt as a result. The guy whose there when you call in the middle of the night and need someone. The guy whose late sometimes, but always makes sure to call to let you know. The guy who values how others see him because it does matter. The guy who will help when you need it. The guy who can still hang out with his ex and best friend whose now dating the ex and not kill someone in the room. The guy who brings you soup because you said you were sick. The guy who lets all the pain fester inside because he doesn't want his sadness to ruin everyone else's good time. The guy who learned violin so he could play for himself. The guy who said he'd rather die than live a lie.

2. What kind of man/guy do you want to become (post HRT or just as self improvement)?
I want to become more assertive and not let people walk over me as much.
I want to learn to swing dance.
I want to make a difference in the world in some way that matters.
I don't want to be forgotten.
I want to become a published author.
I want to be a good husband and a good father one day.

3. How did you become the type of man that you are now (especially if you didn't have many male role models)?
See the first bit above.

4. Any advice for me?
- If you don't have role models in your real life, then find some. Either in books or tv or music. Role models are important. They let us see that those things we are afraid of, others can overcome and if they can do it, then so can we.
- Don't be afraid of 'becoming gay'. No one 'becomes gay'. Gay is not a choice. My therapist told me i'd probably "go straight" when I went on T, I told him it was highly unlikely i'd become straight. I'm bi but could never have a long term relationship with a woman. Emotionally i'm gay and no amount of hormone will ever change that.
- You're going to be ok 

[krogan]

1. What kind of man/guy do you see yourself as?

Introverted. Serious. Anxious. Hard working. Prideful. Contrary. Laconic. People often don't know what to make of me, but they quickly find that behind my serious veneer.... I'm even more serious. 

2. What kind of man/guy do you want to become (post HRT or just as self improvement)?

I'm already 4 years on T and 2 years post-op. I want to work on my body because at the moment it's not as toned/muscular as I'd like. Having said that, I'm quite into androgyny, so I also want to work on feeling confident enough to express that.
That's just surface level stuff obviously.... I'd like to speak up for myself more, and I want to be more reliable. I can be a bit flaky because I tend to disappear into my writing/games. I want to become the type of guy who helps to create more positive masculinities - ones not based on domination.
I'd like to be more open and loving. Unfortunately, harbouring a 'secret' desire to be a man has left me a somewhat secretive and guarded individual. I'm tired of that now; it's time the walls came down.


3. How did you become the type of man that you are now (especially if you didn't have many male role models)?

I trusted myself. I questioned everything I trusted and tore it down.   
In terms of male role models, I drew a lot of inspiration from fictional characters. I always used to be attracted to villains in films, because some exhibited 'deviant' (e.g. 'feminine') traits. The main male protagonists were usually pretty vanilla and unattractive to me. In terms of behaviour though, I definitely absorbed ideas about duty and self-sacrifice from all those heroes. Aside from that, I listened to my dad and did the opposite.

Er... but my biggest male inspiration IRL was my English teacher. He was gay, and very intelligent, progressive, etc.... he was just awesome, and strong, and a good person. Most cis men I'd met up to that point had been sexist arseholes. So from a young age I had a pretty low opinion of men and thus felt ->-bleeped-<- about wanting to transition. He made me realise that I wouldn't automatically turn into them by transitioning; that I should just trust and stay true to myself, and that I wouldn't be deficient in any way by not fitting into the mould left by my dad. So... basically I'm just like all the cis boys with git fathers.

4. Any advice for me?

Don't worry about it. You are the man you are now - hormones aren't going to transform you into someone completely different. I'm just the same old me, trying to do the right things and all the 'wrong' things too.... only now I can grow a beard. Taking T didn't change my sexuality and it certainly didn't change my personality. I have not become my father, thank god...

[Ephemeral]

I've seen this question come up at support groups for transmen. Usually all I can say is that I got a lot of guidance and reference points from fictional characters.

I remember almost desperately grasping at straws for male role models as a kid. I like my dad but he never talked a lot or showed a lot of emotion, and he was almost completely out of my life by the time I was a teenager. I used to daydream about being (or being adopted by) Data or Captain Picard from the second star trek series, or Q. Or Spock from the older one. Or David Bowie after seeing Labyrinth. I wasn't really allowed to listen to secular music, but the novels and comic books I read weren't policed as carefully. I liked science fiction and horror, and I looked up to a lot of the authors, particularly Isaac Asimov, Neil Gaiman, and Ray Bradbury. Pre-internet it was easier to idolize strangers, just knowing they wrote the stories that made my life what it was. When I got out from under my parents' supervision but was still a young teenager I got more into music, and I looked up to Trent Reznor and GG Allin and Lou Reed. And others. I tried a lot of drugs, and learned all I could about Timothy Leary, Terence Mckenna, Sasha Shulgin, and Carl Sagan and his wife.

I'm going to stop listing every random person I spent time infatuated with, but there were so many more. As a young person I was fixated on finding better worlds than my own and figuring out why they were better and if I could make any of those details real, and obsessed with finding people who seemed good and worth patterning myself after. I had a childlike belief that the whole world would be better if we could know more and find ways to fix things, and I was angry that people didn't seem to care. I was socially immature far later than I should have been, and so I was not aware at the time that nerding out so hard on what is typically just entertainment was not what any of the socially successful kids were doing.

Seeking so hard was not healthy, but I was able to get some good out of all the pop culture scavenging. All the fictional people I came across had problems and weren't perfect, and they talked about and tangled with their faults and other obstacles transparently, the way real people don't. I got tactics and ideas about what is normal and warnings about what to possibly expect, and that helped immensely.

So I made who I am by overlaying my intense ideas about being noble and ethical and kind over a zillion little anecdotes in books about how people behave in various circumstances. I no longer limit myself so severely to any particular genre of literature or music, so I have ongoing input that is less charged and more broadly applicable.

I second this a lot. My dad was not very present either so I also lacked male role models in my life. Even though he existed he was always someone in the distance, very detached and more observing and not so involved with me and my life. I hope to not become like him when/if I ever have children in the future.

1. What kind of man/guy do you see yourself as?
Pretty masculine with a feminized visual impression. I am heavily influenced by Asian male fashion. Deeply emotional on the inside but I don't really show or express my emotions that readily. It makes me very uncomfortable unless I trust the person. I am otherwise pretty harsh I think. Very straight and up to the point but also quite soft once you get to know me. Very protective of those I care about and I value honesty highly. I'm quite simple in that way. Also highly intellectual and intelligent.

Some of the role models I have are men I've found in fiction. Especially the more gruff, silent, socially withdrawn kind of guy who goes and does his own thing but is deeply caring in secret. Hei from Darker Than Black is definitely a poignant character in how I created my own masculinity. I would say though that I didn't look up to these characters so much because they were role models as much as I always deeply identified with them in the first place. It was who I was inside but the real question is how I was going to realize it. I understood this a little more than a year ago.

2. What kind of man/guy do you want to become (post HRT or just as self improvement)?
I think I would strive towards to learn to be better at expressing myself emotionally I think, to be more involved with life and people around me, to learn to share of myself a bit more and be less imposing with my will and desires on others and expect them to conform and be better off trying to develop a middle-road where everything is not my way or the highway.

3. How did you become the type of man that you are now (especially if you didn't have many male role models)?
I looked a lot to Asian media because I realized the type of man I sought can be found in Asia, not in the West. With that said, I am still myself and that hasn't changed, but instead of fully creating something out of scratch which is difficult to feel secure in, it was more that I looked for something to affirm myself and I found that in Japanese media. I especially like how Japanese men are not always depicted as hypermasculine dudes who are all big brawny muscled men with little brain and no real sexual sensibility as in, they only care about defeating their foes by force and saving the girl. Japanese men are usually depicted as more sensitive in this regard, in that they show more otherworldly concern and have a more apparent emotional life.

4. Any advice for me?
Experiment. Don't be afraid if it doesn't work out for you but feel yourself through of what seems right or wrong here, because there is no right or wrong when it comes to our identities. The most important is to be honest about ourselves and not fall prey to insecurity that I think a lot of guys do regardless whether they are trans or not. Remember that what's important is that it should be something you feel comfortable with and it is expressive of who you feel you are inside. If people think that's gay or something else it's their problem, not yours. If they like you they should accept you for who you are.