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Really Frustrated (CW: Pap & Kinda ranty)

Started by Ryan B., July 14, 2014, 11:59:43 PM

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Ryan B.

So I asked my nurse practitioner if she could help me get started on hrt through informed consent. She said yes, but wants me to get a pap smear done first. I've never had one done before and only had a half formed idea on what it entailed.

Looked it up and yeah, no thanks. It looks worse than I thought it was and was dysphoria inducing just reading about it and seeing diagrams. I don't think I could ever put myself into a frame of mind to get it done. It's not just dysphoria related. As a child I was forced to have a medical procedure done in that general area, twice (almost thrice). I'm not going to go into details, but as a child I found the experiences very traumatic.

Still, I have looked up ways to cope (and found nothing useful in that regard) and found this on this forum:

QuoteIf you're against getting a pap done, there is a blood test known as the CSA(Cervical Specific Antigen) that, while not commercially available, can be done with greater accuracy and less trauma on the patient's part. Call around and ask about that if you're more keen on it. I've had it done since I'm not sexually active and have PTSD that gets triggered if another person comes into contact with me there.

So is this just some sort of thing to give people false hope? Of course I looked that up as soon as I heard about it and found jack squat. Their supposed website doesn't even exist.

Also, while searching around I found this (among other things):
QuoteCervical cancer is in essence a sexually transmitted disease (STD) caused by the human papillomavirus (HPV). Thus any woman can estimate her personal risk. It's high if a woman has had multiple sexual partners. With prior negative Paps it's low if she abstains or if she is in a long term mutually monogamous relationship

So while I haven't had any previous paps done, I'm also a virgin whose family is low risk for cervix cancer and I don't smoke (supposedly that puts you at risk too). So why can't I refuse to get a pap done? I never consented to this. I don't have a choice? Seriously?

I feel like giving up.
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invisiblemonsters

there is alternatives like i heard about a DNA test that can test for HPV. i don't know though, i think even though you have a low risk of cervical cancer and even a virgin (you can still get HPV as a virgin btw), you should get it done because it is for your own safety. if you don't want it you could go somewhere else and have it maybe end up taking longer to get on t but if that is what is gonna help i guess you could do that. i just know though even though your odds seem in your favour, you should still do it and that is based off personal experience (with cancer). doctors just ask you to do things for your own safety, not to traumatize you.
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devention

Someone posted this a few days ago in a thread about a guy having to get a pap done. I don't know how helpful it would be to you, but it's something, at least.
The more I know, the more I know I don't know.






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Ryan B.

Quote from: devention on July 15, 2014, 01:01:13 AM
Someone posted this a few days ago in a thread about a guy having to get a pap done. I don't know how helpful it would be to you, but it's something, at least.

I think your link is broken. >>

Quote from: invisiblemonsters on July 15, 2014, 12:31:56 AM
there is alternatives like i heard about a DNA test that can test for HPV. i don't know though, i think even though you have a low risk of cervical cancer and even a virgin (you can still get HPV as a virgin btw), you should get it done because it is for your own safety. if you don't want it you could go somewhere else and have it maybe end up taking longer to get on t but if that is what is gonna help i guess you could do that. i just know though even though your odds seem in your favour, you should still do it and that is based off personal experience (with cancer). doctors just ask you to do things for your own safety, not to traumatize you.

Are you referring to the HPV test? I think I read that it was essentially the same as the pap smear, just tested for different stuff. I plan to talk to my np before considering anything... I just hope she listens to me. >< I feel like this should be my choice... it's my body.

I can't really help it if I found something traumatic..
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devention

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.






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Declan.

I've never heard of that being required prior to starting testosterone. Prior to getting a hysterectomy, yes, but that's it. You can be sedated. This isn't general anesthesia, mind you - it's the type of sedation they would give you if you had to have a colonoscopy. You will not be completely unconscious, but you'll be unaware of what's happening. For all you know, you're asleep, and you won't remember anything after the fact. I'm not sure how difficult it is to find someone who will sedate you, but I do know it's a possibility if it would be traumatic for you.
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Ryan B.

Quote from: devention on July 15, 2014, 01:16:52 AM
grrr.
http://www.checkitoutguys.ca/?q=about-the-pap-test
Got it to work that time. x.x

Thanks for the link. Dunno if it will help me or not, but I'll give it a look.

Quote from: Declan. on July 15, 2014, 01:21:52 AM
I've never heard of that being required prior to starting testosterone. Prior to getting a hysterectomy, yes, but that's it. You can be sedated. This isn't general anesthesia, mind you - it's the type of sedation they would give you if you had to have a colonoscopy. You will not be completely unconscious, but you'll be unaware of what's happening. For all you know, you're asleep, and you won't remember anything after the fact. I'm not sure how difficult it is to find someone who will sedate you, but I do know it's a possibility if it would be traumatic for you.

I'll have to ask about this. I don't think a pap smear would be a problem if I could be sedated like that. Thanks
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Declan.

If you've truly never had any type of internal intercourse regarding your reproductive organs - including toys - I imagine there's probably no need for this test at all. I've never had one, and won't until I have a hysterectomy, in which case it's required as far as I know. Sometimes I feel that doctors push these things because they don't believe you're telling the truth, just as so many female-bodied persons are pushed towards birth control regardless of sexual activity. I can't recommend never getting one because it is a cancer test, after all, but I don't believe this is as dire a situation as your doctor is making it out to be.

However, if you can find someone who will sedate you, I do recommend taking that route if possible instead of avoiding the test. If you have a hysterectomy, you can't get out of it anyway - at least as far as I'm aware.
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Ryan B.

I don't know if I can get out of it, virgin or not. My nurse practitioner seemed really adamant about me getting one... maybe it's my age? I just turned 25 and from all the reading I've done it seems they want people to start getting them after about 21 at least.

I really think being under that form of sedation would help tremendously. And if it's true that I'll have to have a pap done to get a hysto (I don't really understand why though..) I really hope they'll sedate me for that one as well... otherwise, I guess I'm never getting a hysto. >__>
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Declan.

As far as I know, it's 21 or within 3 years of becoming sexually active. External sexual activity does not count. Printing out some reading material for her may help your case. The only issue I can see with sedation is expense (if you're uninsured) and potential risks from anesthesia, but considering people are put under for much less, I don't think it would be too difficult for you to find someone willing to do that.
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SX0877

My hrt doctor decided that she would not need to do a pelvic exam or pap smear after she knew I wouldn't react well and was not sexually active.
My hysto surgeon did not do a pap smear either but did a pelvic exam, not a complete one, just the necessary parts for him to know what he was dealing with and he told me that this very first exam would be my last one.
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campenella

I've also never heard of getting a pap done before hrt. Do you have a doctor you normally go to? Ask her why she needs a pap before T and not a levels test. Levels are done with the blood and have pretty much nothing to do with a pap which is a screening for cancers. If you are a virgin and she isn't listening, basically say you want another nurse.

I didn't have a pap done right before,  but only years before when I was being tested because of a PH imbalance, I had swabs/pelvic exams done before that and it was very pleasant and did not hurt. They did a level check on me and wanted me to get the HPV shot because of my age. I didn't need a pap for HPV, they asked me if I still wanted to get it since I was on the cusp of the age cut off and I said yes. I had my pap after I was already doing HPV shots, my regular physician saw that I'd never had one. I went in voluntarily for one and I found it very similar to a swab. This was done this year.

It was really quick, while a male gyno and I was so nervous that he was done before I knew it. I kept my binder on the whole time, He was quick and efficient and didn't gender my genitals because I was at a LGBT clinic. For me It didn't hurt because he was very gentle. When I had swabs at Planned Parenthood they were also very gentle even though they had to do mutiple tests on me since I was having an alergic reaction and they needed to know why. No pain, no cramping. Honestly I don't like them because of a history of being uncomfortable with traumatic reasons too, and they wanted a nurse to come in with me because of it but I refused since I knew I'd panic more. My doc distracted me the whole time (less than 1 or 2 min) and the experience was less invasive than any swab I'd had done so I could immediately forget about it and continue my day without any stress or bad reactions.

Honestly people sort of underhype the need for HPV shoots and why faab people really need them. PIV isn't the only reason why you could contract HPV, this is for anyone. You have to had not had your genitals touch just about anyone else's in a sexual way to be sure that you don't have it, and it's still a good idea b/c it's basically insurance, as it prevents strains of HPV in the future. This is for anybody who is faab, not just transmen or women.

External sex indeed does count with HPV, basically it's like any sTI/STD
http://www.hpvinfo.ca/adults/frequently-asked-questions/

The reason they want you to get a pap/pelvic for a hysto is to make sure you don't have any abnormalities etc. It's basically doctor's covering their butts medically too to show that you either do or don't have abnormalities before they go into surgery. They need to know and have it on record. Looking at diagrams can make you feel so out of this world, I looked at one and immediately got dysphoric. I remember reading stuff on another forum where people would constantly hype up how much pain they were in before disclosing they had endo later on. Take the precautions that you need in having someone with if you need/sedation. If you get sedation definitely take another person with you to the appointment.
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Declan.

If neither party has ever participated in any type of sexual activity, and neither party's birth parent had HPV, the potential risks of the vaccine far outweigh its benefits in my opinion. I'm not a doctor, but I do trust mine because she's one of the few who actually believes her patients and doesn't push a test or vaccine just because she thinks you might not be telling the whole truth. While flukes can still happen, I'm not considered at risk for HPV or anything paps screen for. It's possible Ryan isn't either.
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campenella

Quote from: Declan. on July 15, 2014, 01:00:58 PM
If neither party has ever participated in any type of sexual activity, and neither party's birth parent had HPV, the potential risks of the vaccine far outweigh its benefits in my opinion. I'm not a doctor, but I do trust mine because she's one of the few who actually believes her patients and doesn't push a test or vaccine just because she thinks you might not be telling the whole truth. While flukes can still happen, I'm not considered at risk for HPV or anything paps screen for. It's possible Ryan isn't either.

I hope this isn't directed at me because I didn't mean to come off as a jerk  :-X
Trust me when I say I don't mean to push anyone into an uncomfortable situation that they don't want. I'm simply relaying information and telling of my own experiences here. This is why I say that if he isn't comfortable with his nurse pushing things-to ask for another nurse. Personal risk is up to an individual, but I see the HPV vaccine as any other-something you should highly think about and shouldn't be underhyped.  The shot shouldn't be pushed, pap for T is definitely misleading

There is a double concern for Ryan with hysto and HPV which for a hysto some testing has to be done to check for abnormalities. Some things we have to go through suck majorly, and preparing for them, and having information helps a decision.
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mm

Ryan B, I am very interested in this thread as I am about to start T and have never had an exam or pap.  Being 23 I know many drs will want to do one on me.  I have never had anything beyond a tampon in me in my whole life.  The though of having a spectrum put in there and opened up makes me go have all these bad thoughts.  I wish all the time why do I have these parts in the first place; they give me pain and bleed ever month no guy should have to put up with this.  I want a total hyster ASAP, which will be a couple of years for me I think now.  I sure hope I can started with T without a dr seeing my parts down there.  Reading about how an exam and pap are done is the worst dysphora I ever had.
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Declan.

Quote from: campenella on July 15, 2014, 01:17:25 PM
I hope this isn't directed at me because I didn't mean to come off as a jerk  :-X
Trust me when I say I don't mean to push anyone into an uncomfortable situation that they don't want. I'm simply relaying information and telling of my own experiences here. This is why I say that if he isn't comfortable with his nurse pushing things-to ask for another nurse. Personal risk is up to an individual, but I see the HPV vaccine as any other-something you should highly think about and shouldn't be underhyped.  The shot shouldn't be pushed, pap for T is definitely misleading

There is a double concern for Ryan with hysto and HPV which for a hysto some testing has to be done to check for abnormalities. Some things we have to go through suck majorly, and preparing for them, and having information helps a decision.

You didn't come across as a jerk at all. I understand what you're saying, I merely disagree about the importance of these things when one hasn't participated in sexual activity. There are doctors that push unnecessary tests and vaccinations because they don't trust their patients to tell the truth. I know that's an issue for both parties, but if someone lies about their sexual experience, that's on them, and I don't appreciate that truthful patients are more or less punished by being pushed by their doctors to go through invasive or potentially dangerous procedures. My comment wasn't really directed at you though, just the situation in general.
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Ryan B.

Quote from: campenella on July 15, 2014, 12:16:23 PMExternal sex indeed does count with HPV, basically it's like any sTI/STD
http://www.hpvinfo.ca/adults/frequently-asked-questions/

I have done external things with a partner... so I guess that rules me out. Still think this is bs. It should be up to the individual. I feel like it's my body so it should be my choice. =/

Not aimed at anyone in the thread; just more ranting... ---> All I want is to start hrt. I think it's getting close to the 2 year mark now, on how long I've been trying to start. Everytime I think that I'm close, something else is forced on me or... just more bad news.

I express my worries to my parents, my aunt... even to one of my best friends and no one even tries to understand where I'm coming from. One of 'em even had the gall to say "its not super invasive" ... yeah, right.. my worries, my fears and my feelings are not valid.

I'm sorry, I keep whining. The more I continue to think about it, the more frustrated and angry I feel..
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Brandon

I'm no doctor but if your not sexually active at all then I don't see why you would need a pap smear, Even in sex education they told us to only do those if your really sexually active and have had mutiple partners, Some doctors are just stupid and push you to do unessicary things. No doctor has a right to put someon in an uncomfprtable position like someone stated and you stated its your body and its on them.
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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mm

Many drs assume if you are in your 20's you must of had a guy in you many times by then.  We need to educate them that there are people who haven't.
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Brandon

Quote from: mm on July 15, 2014, 03:15:56 PM
Many drs assume if you are in your 20's you must of had a guy in you many times by then.  We need to educate them that there are people who haven't.


Well I am a straight male and I highly doubt if we can educate them. So thats a dumb ass assumption. Not everyone wants to have sex right know. I plan to be married with a wife before that happens
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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