Non Binary and Binary members - lateral violence and working together

[Taka]

binary is anything that has only two possible values, which are rather either or.
like binary numbers, consisting only of 1s and 0s.
a binary view on gender, would say that there is only male and female, and you are either one or the other (this is rather true for most people).

non-binary is a term we have applied to all experiences of gender that don't fit with the binary view.
it might be the androgyne, where a person is a little bit of each, somewhere in the middle.
the neuter, that is nothing of neither, and would rather not be associated with any gender at all.
someone who is both at the same time, fully and wholly rather than in between.
or something else entirely. like a lone pluto in a world of men from venus and women from mars.

[Mark3]

I, for one, would love to make a thread about the things binary members have in common with non-binary members (and vice-versa) - I think it could be enjoyable and we can begin to learn that we aren't really so much different from each other as we think. One example I can think of is a non-binary and MTF sharing make-up tips, helping each other out by giving suggestions on fashion and maybe even going shopping together, having fun and laughing together.

I love this idea Jacey..!

[Taka]

i just realized one thing. a rhetorical mistake that is made so often.

why? because we forget to validate each other's viewpoints.
when offering a different option, solution, or something than the poster before, try validating their post as well if you can agree with it (in a general sense, not necessarily in the case discussed).

i just forgot to validate, maybe i thought it wasn't necessary. but we aren't mind readers, and i got self defense in response.
started defending myself as well, and then suddenly, after posting, realized that the extra posting might not even have been needed if only i'd validated first.

it's a mistake i often make. people think i disagree with them because i offer a completely different view or solution. i offer those because i see value in considering other possibilities, but when i don't validate the other's opinion before starting, of course they'll think i'm disagreeing. unless they actually know me really well, but most people here don't.

[Sammy]

Sometimes, when reading posts by both sides involved, I get that vague feeling that binaries are facing the same difficulties when trying to understand non-binaries (and vice-versa) as cisgenders when trying to understand transgender community. Duh.

[Taka]

i remember this manga author once writing about how she doesn't understand gays (even though she writes homoerotic literature).
she's bisexual, so it's easy to understand what it's like to like the same sex. but not liking the opposite sex, that's something of a mystery to her.

monosexuality and bisexuality are so different that it might be easier for a heterosexual and homosexual to understand each other, than it is for either to understand bisexuality. or for a bisexual to really understand the two other.

probably something of the same thing between binary and non-binary.
they're just so fundamentally different.

[Sammy]

i remember this manga author once writing about how she doesn't understand gays (even though she writes homoerotic literature).
she's bisexual, so it's easy to understand what it's like to like the same sex. but not liking the opposite sex, that's something of a mystery to her.

monosexuality and bisexuality are so different that it might be easier for a heterosexual and homosexual to understand each other, than it is for either to understand bisexuality. or for a bisexual to really understand the two other.

probably something of the same thing between binary and non-binary.
they're just so fundamentally different.

Ironically, I was contemplating a bit similar thoughts just yesterday and came to conclusion that I dont understand homosexual couples either. I_just_dont_get_it. Now, being trans as the most marginalised and stygmatised minority ever (amirite?), I should be all about acceptance, tolerance and understanding? Wrong. I am not homophobic. Period. Means, I dont care who do they sleep with and are attracted to and theoretically can befriend anyone if we click on the emotional level. But.. I just dont get them and do not really want to. So being such like - can I really condemn binary or cisgender people for not being able to understand or approve me as trans? Guess, not, so I better shut up  now:).

[Dread_Faery]

We need to address the gender assimilationist "just like you (cis)" narrative that permeates the binary trans world. Fortunately those who are militant in pushing that narrative are small in number, and already not welcome on the forum, but listen to the general chatter and there's definitely a culture of judging other trans folk on their ability to blend in. This environment is subtly not welcoming and a little bit toxic for non binary and gender non-conforming individuals, because we're not trying to fit neatly in the binary, which means we can get perceived as a threat to it.

I've only been back a couple of weeks and I've only really seen one example of naked aggression towards non-binary identified people, but I've read plenty of chatter that has made me feel uncomfortable in some spaces in the forum.

I feel that there needs to be more respect for other people's paths and experiences, yes there are some similarities in the various paths we walk, but we're not all the same and it really shouldn't be an issue that we aren't.

[Jess42]

I just can't believe that we all face the same discrimination from society, the same hate, the same animosity, the same non acceptance form society and so on and we are fighting amongst ourselves. We are all under the same "umbrella" and no one wants to get wet in a downpour. I mean I am non binary, I think. Sometimes it seems like I am drawn toward the MTF binary. And then sometimes back to non binary. Really though, what difference does it make? I'm me and that is all that I can be. Whether MTF Non Binary, MTF Binary, Cis ( yeah that worked really good when I tried. BIG FAIL ) I really don't care who identifies as what because I find the experience here priceless. Way better than therapy even.

Some may not like what I got to say in this next part but we are all shunned by society. Except for small circles or subcultures. Yes it seems to be changing and picking up momentum but the important thing is that we are all transgender no matter how broad that term may be, and we really need to stick together especially when we are gaining sympathy from parts of society. I'm sorry but no one is better than anyone else and no path is more legitimate than any other. If we stick together, we may change things. If we separate and form our own little groups, well we are divided and one rule of warfare is to divide and conquer. I for one don't want this movement conquered. I want to see it pick up more momentum and force society to accept everyone, or at least respect everyone's right to live their own lives. But how can we expect society to accept and respect us, when we can't even accept or respect different concepts under the same transgender umbrella?

I really expect someone is gonna' get mad at me for saying what I said. I am sorry if I offended anyone but we really need to stop and think and then stick together because we as transgender are becoming more and more known in society in a positive light. No more swept under the rug, no matter how you identify. Now is the time we really need to stick together. I mean Cindy put her self out there and got way more positive responses than negative. That is a plus. A really big plus. And now is the time we all need to stick together.

No I will shut up and wait for the rotten vegetables to hit me in the face.

[Jill F]

We are all under the same "umbrella" and no one wants to get wet in a downpour.

Yes, get out that transgender umbrella so we don't all get covered in gender fluid (or rotten tomatoes).

Sorry, bad joke.  I fully accept non-binary people as part of "the club" and we really do need to stick together.   You'd think we would all know a thing or two about the importance of tolerance around here.

[Jess42]

Yes, get out that transgender umbrella so we don't all get covered in gender fluid (or rotten tomatoes).

Sorry, bad joke.  I fully accept non-binary people as part of "the club" and we really do need to stick together.   You'd think we would all know a thing or two about the importance of tolerance around here.

Yeah, you would think so huh? Strength in numbers for sure. United we stand, divided we fall and all the other clichés. I really have no idea what I am. One day I am one and ready to go for it and the next I'm the other and kind of apprehensive. So what does that really make me? Other than all messed up.

[Jill F]

Yeah, you would think so huh? Strength in numbers for sure. United we stand, divided we fall and all the other clichés. I really have no idea what I am. One day I am one and ready to go for it and the next I'm the other and kind of apprehensive. So what does that really make me? Other than all messed up.

I was there on the fence for a few months myself.  Have you tried taking E?  That's ultimately what made me realize I belong over on the "F" side.

[Jess42]

No. I already have low T levels and am an emotional mess at times. I am thinking really hard but my god, how would I react to E? That is kind of what I am scared or kind of apprehensive of. I mean when I finally opened up to my shrink, she knew. Then the tears came and I bawled like a little girl. She actually told me that I didn't even act like a real guy. So I can all I can to do is say the word and then she will refer me to an Endo. She told me I overplayed my guy persona. She told me it was so far out there and over the top that I was either crazy, or using it to hide my true self. Unfortunately I am still on the fence. It sux 'cause I never had this problem before. Either, both or more of one than the other. Definitely more the female than male. Who knows? It is definitely something I really need to try to figure out.

[peky]

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on Yesterday at 12:25:31 pm
You are consistently and absolutely a part of the problem and lack the intelligence to realize it.
Your words are meaningless and I find your words hollow in content.
This is exactly what divides us. The poster said if something offends to ask and see if it was a misunderstanding. Maybe you should ease your anger a little and try to help with relations between members instead of judging which is something binaries are being accused of. 

Absolutely right Jessica.

Ativan Prescribed response is offensive and unduley harsh !

[Cindy]

Considering I started this thread to remind people to interact with each other in a respectful and understanding manner, I am very disappointed that members have used this as a way of arguing between each other rather than working together.

Thread locked in sad amazement.