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Tension

Started by luna nyan, July 17, 2014, 06:18:58 AM

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VeronicaLynn

Quote from: Satinjoy on July 27, 2014, 05:59:26 PM
As a sober alcoholic I have to comment something, but what....

Only that if it pulls on you, and it does not do that to "normies", and if it starts to screw with your life on any level, why not check out an AA meeting and see if you like it?

I came in to a meeting to get a free cup of coffee because I couldn't afford to buy one, and my life changed forever.


I'm not sure I need to do that. Part of it is I don't want to give myself yet another label. I absolutely was abusing alcohol for awhile, because I didn't think I could handle this sober, while I can now, I don't know that I would have joined Susan's or read everything I have about it sober. I only had 4 glasses of wine last night, and I plan to start not drinking every night soon. In any case, I can't really claim to still be drunk from last night, or even hungover. I'm still bigender, it's not something that I can't handle sober. If it turns out I can't moderate my drinking now that I've officially accepted being trans sober, I will need to go to an AA meeting, or maybe even rehab. I think I'll be OK though now.
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Kaelin

Going through AA is not necessarily the right thing for a person.  One should see whether the 12 Step program resonates with them.  7 of the steps are tied to the existence of an almighty God (and a male one at that) who you call upon to help you resolve your problems.  If you have secular attitudes about fixing with ails you, I would not recommend AA.
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Satinjoy

i folund it lifesaving.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
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Allyda

Quote from: Kaelin on July 28, 2014, 09:45:40 AM
Going through AA is not necessarily the right thing for a person.  One should see whether the 12 Step program resonates with them.  7 of the steps are tied to the existence of an almighty God (and a male one at that) who you call upon to help you resolve your problems.  If you have secular attitudes about fixing with ails you, I would not recommend AA.
A lot of people see the 12 step program being tied to a male almighty God. Personally, I believe God is genderless, but that's beside my point. What those 7 steps refer to is Your Higher Power, which for some is a male almighty God but not all. You use whatever higher power you believe in, whether it be the grand puhbah, or an almighty God. What I'm saying is your higher power doesn't necessarily have to be an almighty male God. It can be whatever higher power you choose.

Please know I'm in no way advocating the use of 12 step programs. In fact, I'm not a drinker and I've never abused drugs. I was however back in the late 80's involved with a woman who was an alcoholic which is the only reason I have any insight into the matter. And my purpose with this comment is purely educational, nothing more.

Allie :icon_flower:
Allyda
Full Time August 2009
HRT Dec 27 2013
VFS [ ? ]
FFS [ ? ]
SRS Spring 2015



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Kaelin

The gendered God is not one that applies to people in general but rather the "official" language adopted by AA.  Besides what Wikipedia says of it, it is the wording that also appears on the official AA website.  Steps 3 and 11 in particular allude to a gendered God, but three others (5, 6, 7) point to "God" or "Him" (which appear to clearly intended as synonyms), and two others (2, 12) refer to religious language relating to God (given the other mentions of God in other steps):

Quote2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

The official language appears clear on this matter, but I would actually be surprised in God's male-ness is in any way central to the program.  It's more that the program's philosophy is based on a certain cluster of Judeo-Christian belief systems.  For people who do not share these beliefs -- people who don't worship a god or who believe it is irresponsible to invoke their god/gods/supernatural in this way -- AA is unlikely to be effective for them.  For people who do approach God in this way, it's more likely to help them.

Mind, I haven't had experiences with drug abuse either, but I have compelled to participate in religious organizations and found they did not help me (and sometimes were rather harmful).  This is not to say that stuff with a religious bent is bad (or bad for everyone), but AA's particular religious component is significant and should be acknowledged by anyone looking to engage themselves or others with the program.
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JulieBlair

I started reading this thread, primarily because I admire people who refuse to make an affirmative declaration regarding gender.  I doubt that if we are really honest, that most of us in the trans community are at polar ends of the gender spectrum.  I'm a girl/woman mostly, but certainly not entirely.  The struggle with balance doesn't exist for me in the way here described.  I can be a woman, live, feel, present as such, without abandoning the male identification that works.  But I paid the price - sometimes (often times) I weep over that.  So I admire you.

Estrogen and testosterone are not narcotics, if you get psychic relief it is not because of chemical dependency, but because of hormonal alignment.  That is why we take it.  It keeps us balanced.  That said, alcoholism and drug dependency are pretty common here.  Nero was our latest causality at Susan's, but there have been others.

Kaelin recited the steps.  They were written in 1938 and derived from the six steps of the Oxford movement.  The founders were Christian, but so what?  Appendix two has one of the more profound statements in recovery and I quote.

"Most of our experiences are what the psychologist William James calls the "educational variety" because they develop slowly over a period of time.    Quite often friends of the newcomer are aware of the difference long before he is himself.    He finally realizes that he has undergone a profound alteration in his reaction to life, that such a change could hardly have been brought about by him alone.    What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self-discipline.    With few exceptions our members and that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves.

Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience."

Okay think about that. God is a shorthand for spiritual growth.  Whatever your idea of psychic/spiritual power is can work.  You need not ascribe gender, but you may if you wish.  If you were a Christian man in 1938 that would likely be male in nature.  For a trans woman in 2014, not so much.

You can be Wicca, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist or nothing at all and that unsuspected inner resource is available, can be tapped into and used to facilitate change.  The steps are ego deflating, and internally transforming.  Redemption through confession, examination, responsibility, and self sacrifice have been  around for millennia.  It seems to me that AA/NA works because it combines public support with honesty and growth.  At least it has worked that way for me for over twenty-five years.  I go to meetings because I love people there.  I do service because it reinforces my commitment to the community.

Kinda sounds like Susan's huh.  I am here to learn and grow.  As a side benefit I have found friends that I love.  Even better I can be of service and filled with purpose.  A couple weeks ago, this same chorus pondered why we post.  For me the short answer is so that I can live; so that the inevitable tension of male/female, yin/yang, masculine/feminine or other dichotomy definition doesn't leave me in shattered pieces once again.

Fair Winds and Smooth Seas,
Julie

I am my own best friend and my own worst enemy.  :D
Full Time 18 June 2014
Esprit can be found at http://espritconf.com/
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Allyda

Oh I certainly agree with you Kaelin, AA isn't for everyone nor did it help my SO back in the late 80's. Within a week after getting out of prison for her 3rd DUI that was in reality her 8th, she went right back to 1/2 gallon of Lord Calvert a day -sometimes two if she was partying. I couldn't take anymore so I left.

Allie :icon_flower:
Allyda
Full Time August 2009
HRT Dec 27 2013
VFS [ ? ]
FFS [ ? ]
SRS Spring 2015



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VeronicaLynn

What I don't like about the AA mindset is that they assume everyone is the same and no one an go from being a heavy drinker to being a social drinker. Maybe for some, they can't. I don't like other people to put limits on me. Just like I don't like people putting limits on me because I'm MAAB, or put limits on me because I'm trans. I can control my drinking, I did make a mistake of thinking I could control these transgender thoughts, and thought badly of myself because I couldn't. Drinking really is something different, it's a matter of not putting a glass up to your mouth more than you want to. Yes, I know it's harder than that, but it is possible, as compared to controlling these thoughts and feelings I have.

Still sober since this morning, and I think I'll stay for awhile longer, but then have a few glasses of wine before bed. I don't want to ever go back to where I was, I'm gradually getting better, and I really like not being hungover. I don't want to ever go back to drinking so much I feel bad the next day.

The one thing I am sure I want to change about my body is that I want to lose all this weight I gained by drinking so many extra calories, and then some. I was super skinny when I was a teenager, I wonder if I can be again, or at least wonder how thin I can be. At the very least, I preferred the way my body looked last year, I know I can get it back to there. I bothers me a bit that I'm shopping in the plus-size women's section.
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Satinjoy

The important thing is you know there is an identified resource that worked for a couple of us here for many years.

Your other decisions and your relationship with alcohol, is all yours.. not for us to interfere with.

But it is always good to have a safety net.

Julie and I need it and it worked for us.  So, we share that, because we were helped.  No other reason.  If you like the way we think and talk, it is heavily AA influenced.

But to tell you what to do?  Nope.  I intensely dislike forcing of any kind.

Hope you can do the weight thing, Been there, done that.  :)  Enjoy your day
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
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JulieBlair

Quote from: VeronicaLynn on July 28, 2014, 11:05:35 PM
What I don't like about the AA mindset is that they assume everyone is the same and no one an go from being a heavy drinker to being a social drinker. Maybe for some, they can't. I don't like other people to put limits on me. Just like I don't like people putting limits on me because I'm MAAB, or put limits on me because I'm trans. I can control my drinking, I did make a mistake of thinking I could control these transgender thoughts, and thought badly of myself because I couldn't. Drinking really is something different, it's a matter of not putting a glass up to your mouth more than you want to. Yes, I know it's harder than that, but it is possible, as compared to controlling these thoughts and feelings I have.

Still sober since this morning, and I think I'll stay for awhile longer, but then have a few glasses of wine before bed. I don't want to ever go back to where I was, I'm gradually getting better, and I really like not being hungover. I don't want to ever go back to drinking so much I feel bad the next day.

The one thing I am sure I want to change about my body is that I want to lose all this weight I gained by drinking so many extra calories, and then some. I was super skinny when I was a teenager, I wonder if I can be again, or at least wonder how thin I can be. At the very least, I preferred the way my body looked last year, I know I can get it back to there. I bothers me a bit that I'm shopping in the plus-size women's section.

Moving from heavy to moderate social drinking?   If you were as strung out as I was, that just doesn't work.  I quit/moderated/socialized a thousand times, but always ended up staring at life from the bottom of a bottle.  It's brain chemistry, the pleasure circuits and metabolic pathways for breaking down alcohol functionally change, they don't seem to change back.  I dunno I haven't had a drink in 25 years, could I socially have a glass of wine with dinner?  Maybe, but so what?  I might also end up back in the bottle, that has been the experience of many people I have known over the years.  It just isn't worth it to me.

So, by all means give social drinking a shot, if it doesn't work try abstinence for a while and see what happens (you'll lose some weight for sure).  For me just not drinking put me in suicidal depression, it took more.  For you, I dunno, find out I guess.  What I do know is that spiritual growth inside or outside of AA brings on a happier life.  Honesty and authenticity let us grow.  Service and fellowship beats isolation and depression every time.  Just saying ;)

Best of everything to you,
Julie
I am my own best friend and my own worst enemy.  :D
Full Time 18 June 2014
Esprit can be found at http://espritconf.com/
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Satinjoy

I wanted to revisit this thread, since the original post and topic hits so close to home.

Luna how is it going with keeping the balance together?

My dysphoria is increasing, or at least my need to see the body, which is transitioning, is getting stronger, but I am still able to maintain the boundaries needed to keep the marriage safe.

My need for the forum continues to be influencing time a lot, and I still need to stay focussed at work.  At home, the lines have been drawn and i am off forum with family, on when I have my personal time and am female presenting when alone or with daughters that fully accept the GQ presentation, wigged or not wigged.

I enlist the aid of the shrink for this balancing need.  Yesterday I asked how many genderqueer he has had out of his 200 patient experience.

Apparently i am the first, truly mixed male/female binaries GQ by that definition.  Remarkable that the therapy has gone so well, but the question could be begged as to what I am still, with no diagnosis, strong mtf leanings, and no question in my mind that I am not a woman trapped within a mans body, nor am I a man trapped within a mans body.  I am nonbinary and need a female body and to live socially as a male, but one that is GQ in presentation.

So checking in.   Its harder for me now.  But it is working and all is currently stable, in spite of the emotional intensity.

I once did a thread on "is transition inevitable".  The non binary position was that it is not inevitable.  The mtf position is that it was.  The ftm or male oriented transitioners didn't really comment on it, I wish we had more involvement by our special male presenting friends on the female oriented non binaries, I love their wisdom and strenth and draw on it.

Blessings and gratitude....

SJ, on the male side this morning yet full transitioned presentation until I get out to work.  How fluid.... interesting.

You sound a heck of a lot like me Luna.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
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luna nyan

SJ,

Here's the state of the onion as of this week.

I think I'm hormonal and snappy at people at the moment - my E levels peaked on my current implant 4 weeks ago and I'm on the downward trend with the E levels till October.

Dysphoria is under control.  I do spend more time online than is healthy, but actively trying to give more time to the family.  Funnily enough, I have no urge to dress.  There has been minor leakage - the girls at work have finally commented on the shaped eyebrows.  I just waved it off as they did need shaping as I do have some rather wild eyebrow hairs.

I was diagnosed MTF over 12 years ago, but borderline so.  I would still say that I am MTF, but have knowingly put that aside for other goals that are more important to me.  If I get to 55 years age without transition, I would say that I've won as I would have accomplished pretty much all but one life aim.
Drifting down the river of life...
My 4+ years non-transitioning HRT experience
Ask me anything!  I promise you I know absolutely everything about nothing! :D
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