"Girls only"

[Ms Grace]

As a footnote to this post where I asked a number of women at work out for drinks at the end of a busy and stressy day...

I feel a bit bad because I deliberately didn't ask one of the guys, a friend of mine who I have often had a drink with after work. Us drinking together has happened less since I transitioned in large part due to him being very busy in his personal life, him attempting to cut back on his drinking, his dietary practices (part day fasting) and me not being at work on as many days as him. I feel there is a bit of gap between us now, not due to me being trans, but due to a male/female thing. He certainly has a one track mind when it comes to women, and while he isn't attracted to me (my boobs are too small for that anyway!) and I'm still attracted to women, I have come to feel his sexual banter to be a bit tiresome. I knew that if I invited him along for drinks with the women that his presence would change the dynamic of the get together and what I was hoping for out of the evening which was a bit of female bonding. So yeah, I didn't ask him.

Personally I was always devastated when I found out the women went off for a girls thing without asking me so I feel bad about doing that to him. I doubt he will be devastated if he hears of it but it'll be a confirmation that he and I are drifting apart. He has already said to me that as much as he likes me as Grace he misses my male persona.

Anyway, I understand now why women do have "girls only" things, it feels much more comfortable and the conversations are a lot less dominated by how the men steer the discussion in the direction of themselves and their interests. There is a lot more personal sharing and the like. I love it!

[Ms Grace]

I should add that the kicker was, at the end of the evening everyone agreed it had been great and that we should do it more often. Given I organised it I felt pretty pleased with myself! 

[Jill F]

Yes, It's a much different dynamic during "girls night out", isn't it.  My wife has been part of a once-a-month, women-only dive bar crew for some time and I was recently included in this already LGBT-friendly group.   I knew a few of them before I transitioned, and I must say that they are definitely more relaxed and open to me now.  It is quite evident that most of them put on a slightly different face when in the presence of guys.

The mixed group dynamic is also much different when it's "guys from work" rather than "guys who are available".  It's also fun to watch when the guys in question qualify as both.

One thing is for sure, though, the last thing girls want while letting off steam is a "bros before hoes" guy around.   Odds are his type are half the reason we need to let off the steam in the first place.

[Alainaluvsu]

Good for you

It's probably for the best you didn't invite him. He probably would've felt awkward and the girls would've probably felt weighed down by having to keep the conversations "guy friendly".

[stephaniec]

don't feel bad just enjoy you new life

[rosinstraya]

I guess this a difficult one (I'm not there yet, so...) The idea that of "we stay the same, male or female" is difficult to agree with fully, in that there are pretty bleedin' obvious changes that have taken place. Emotionally I guess we're in a different place and we fit in differently in our environment. Sure, that central essence of who we are and our take on the world remains the same...but different.

So, yeah, not straightforward. Glad you had a great night out though. 

[antonia]

A good friend of mine that has been out for 25 years told me something that I did not believe at the time but I've since come to realize that there is some truth to it.

She told me that at some point I would have to make up my mind, that it would be impossible to belong in both worlds, that unfortunately grabbing a pint with the boys and going to lunches with the girls are mutually exclusive activities. She also told me that the worst thing I could do was to not belong in either group. I'm still processing but as I get more accepted into the female culture and groups I see more of what you mentioned, the dynamics when there are no boys are totally different and I don't think that's something we can change.

I guess the bottom line is being a woman means sometimes we need to do things women do even when they are things that we aren't totally comfortable with or male culture would not encourage.

[TashaEve]

She told me that at some point I would have to make up my mind, that it would be impossible to belong in both worlds, that unfortunately grabbing a pint with the boys and going to lunches with the girls are mutually exclusive activities. She also told me that the worst thing I could do was to not belong in either group. I'm still processing but as I get more accepted into the female culture and groups I see more of what you mentioned, the dynamics when there are no boys are totally different and I don't think that's something we can change.

I hope that's not true, but I'm beginning to see it myself.
I was really good 'mates' with a guy from work. We'd go for drinks after work and talk philosophy for hours. Lately though our drinks have been a lot less frequent and I find myself chatting with his partner more (she also works with us). I hope to bridge the gap, but that's seeming less likely as my transition progresses.

All that said, I am really enjoying the 'girls club.' The guys just tend to suck the energy out of the conversation.

[Ms Grace]

Yes, I think I have to admit that is what is happening with me too... this guy and I could chat for ages about philosophical and nerdy stuff but the connection, while still there, seems weaker.

[Allyda]

I've literally lost all my guy friends with the exception of a few neighbors. Sometimes one of my former guy friends will call, but usually only when they want something ie: advice on a computer or boat repair, or to borrow money(I've stopped this as I don't believe in paying for friendship). So now it's just me and the girls here though my neighbors and I aren't close. I live rurally so the process of establishing new close friendships is slow.

Allie

[Shantel]

Grace,
      This topic has struck a chord with me too. Since becoming the real me slowly but surely over the last twenty years my few male compatriots have dwindled to zilch other than one fellow who lives on the other side of the state. I used to go on hunting trips with some fellows and enjoyed the bonding and a few drinks around the campfire at night, but eventually I found the conversations to be boring and of little interest to say nothing about the crowing about women and their body parts which became a huge turn off for me.
      Most of the former guy stuff holds no allure for me anymore and I tend to enjoy my daily hour or two in a ladies coffee klatch at the local Starbucks where there is a variety of different topics discussed, mostly things that appeal to women. They do make catty comments about other women's appearance at times, but nothing misogynistic. They don't leer and drool openly over people's body parts and physical attributes and it has become a refreshing change to be accepted so openly into that group even as an androgynous male with obvious female attributes because they value someone who can be a good conversationalist on any subject and above all someone who can be a good listener, is emotionally connected and who shows empathy for others, over anything else.

[Donna Elvira]

I'd have to say this side of things has been a very interesting side of transtioning. I myself have always felt more comfortable in the company of girls/women but since coming out and living openly as a woman, one of the really big changes has been the fact that most of the women I know have quite quickly accepted me into the fold.

I have also made several new female friends, people who never knew me as a guy, and that has been particularly satisfying. I have never tried to hide my past, impossible given the number of people who know me, but there is a big difference in knowing I lived most of my life as a guy and having actually known my male persona.

Like others who have posted, what I love most is the level of intimacy that exists among women and at lunch now, I am mostly with a couple of female colleagues, one of whom is really becoming a very good friend. 

With my old male friends, it is still mostly OK but I'd have to agree there is a probably a little more distance than before.They have been extraordinarily supportive and one at least is quite obviously fascinated by what I have done. I'm even thinking he likes me better as a woman than before...  Most interesting though is how the relationships with their spouses have changed. While we always got on well, I would have to say we have gotten closer and I find myself having conversations at a level of intimacy we had never allowed ourselves previously.

I kind of agree that at some stage we have to decide what world we belong to and as someone who has spent most of her life with a very deep  feeling of not belonging, it is a huge relief for me to discover that I may be putting that behind me at last. Having decided to live the rest of my life as the woman I always felt was there inside me, I have been really happy to discover how accepting most of the women I know have been. Definitely one of the most positive aspects of my transition!
Hugs
Donna   

[Allyda]

Grace,
      This topic has struck a chord with me too. Since becoming the real me slowly but surely over the last twenty years my few male compatriots have dwindled to zilch other than one fellow who lives on the other side of the state. I used to go on hunting trips with some fellows and enjoyed the bonding and a few drinks around the campfire at night, but eventually I found the conversations to be boring and of little interest to say nothing about the crowing about women and their body parts which became a huge turn off for me.
      Most of the former guy stuff holds no allure for me anymore and I tend to enjoy my daily hour or two in a ladies coffee klatch at the local Starbucks where there is a variety of different topics discussed, mostly things that appeal to women. They do make catty comments about other women's appearance at times, but nothing misogynistic. They don't leer and drool openly over people's body parts and physical attributes and it has become a refreshing change to be accepted so openly into that group even as an androgynous male with obvious female attributes because they value someone who can be a good conversationalist on any subject and above all someone who can be a good listener, is emotionally connected and who shows empathy for others, over anything else.

Auntie Shan, it's they, your former male compatriots that lost out. But I know what you mean. My former next door neighbor used to talk like that to other men and boys that used to come around many times within earshot of me and my ex SO, a pair of girls and his wife who would just shake her head. Either he didn't care we could hear him talk about our breasts and whatnot, or he just didn't give a crap. Either way I have no use for talk like that, so I disassociated myself from him.

I think what it is, is men want to feel comfortable to say what they want when conversing with each other, and with a woman around be she trans or cis they feel they have to watch their words, and that makes them feel uncomfortable. I think the same goes for us girls too. We like to be comfortable discussing more enlightened topics most men aren't comfortable with. A lot of which most men find boring. Just my $.02 though.

Allie

[Allyda]

I kind of agree that at some stage we have to decide what world we belong to and as someone who has spent most of her life with a very deep  feeling of not belonging, it is a huge relief for me to discover that I may be putting that behind me at last. Having decided to live the rest of my life as the woman I always felt was there inside me, I have been really happy to discover how accepting most of the women I know have been. Definitely one of the most positive aspects of my transition!
Hugs
Donna

This pretty much describes for the most part how I'm feeling even though my circle of friends is small.

Where have you been Donna? I've missed you. I think the last time we conversed I was still uncomfortable posting photos. As you can see I've gotten over that. Seriously how have you been?

Allie

[Donna Elvira]

This pretty much describes for the most part how I'm feeling even though my circle of friends is small.

Where have you been Donna? I've missed you. I think the last time we conversed I was still uncomfortable posting photos. As you can see I've gotten over that. Seriously how have you been?

Allie

Hi Allyda,
It's very sweet of you to inquire and yes, it's great that you posted a photo. You look just a little sad but, while I understand all the reasons many people prefer not to post photos, these images bring the people here that much closer.

On my own side, things have been a bit complicated over the last few months as I struggled with the realization that no matter what I actually did and accomplished , I was going to loose my job at the end of July. I was really very down for a while but have recovered enough to finish up strongly. Among others, this means that I have just been very busy getting as much done as I can so that I leave as positive an impression as I can with as many people as I can. It was my way of making a statement.

The great thing is that it by doing this, I may have had more impact than I imagined initially, possibly even reopening some doors that seemed to be definitively closed. The future will tell! Meanwhile, if you have seen my other posts, next bg step is GRS, just over 4 weeks down the road!

Wishing you all the very best!
Bises
Donna
   

P.S. Grace, sorry for going off subject but I had to answer the question.

[jname]

Depends on the people, not the gender. Not all guys are as you have described at all.

[Ms Grace]

Depends on the people, not the gender. Not all guys are as you have described at all.

This is of course true in all cases, generalisations should never paint all with the same brush. That said, having lived on the guy side of things for over forty years I have been surprised, and dismayed, at the number of guys who are boob and sex obsessed.

I kind of agree that at some stage we have to decide what world we belong to and as someone who has spent most of her life with a very deep  feeling of not belonging, it is a huge relief for me to discover that I may be putting that behind me at last. Having decided to live the rest of my life as the woman I always felt was there inside me, I have been really happy to discover how accepting most of the women I know have been. Definitely one of the most positive aspects of my transition!

I relate to this so much, Donna. In a way that acceptance was what I had hoped for without having to transition, and while I got some of it from women it was only partial and/or they thought I was gay...

[kira21 ♡♡♡]

I think there are very very few guys who would be disappointed at missing a girly night out. I know I always was, but then, there is a reason for that. The same reason I was always very jealous of anyone who was pregnant and none of the men I knew could relate to that.

TBH though, I have to say, I haven't found girly talk massively different, but then again, I don't have many friends and the ones I do have are so far from normal men that I would not use them as a barometer. I never ever have hung around with men-men, not ever in my life. I couldn't stand the sport talk and bravado. Sure its a little different, but not chalk and cheese. I certainly prefer it a whole lot, but I don't find conversations in girl only groups are massively different than they were when it was girl only and me-before. I bit more physically intimate in their detail, but that is about it.

[Misato]

Just plain socializing with men as a friend is hard for me. I have a few guy friends but most guys I know are rather withdrawn into their work or hobbies.

I've heard it said that women are less lonely in retirement cause they tend to have social circles outside work while men have them at the job. So when men retire, there is no one. I have no proof if this is the case or not but anecdotally it feels true in my life experience.

As for girl's time, I have noticed a delightful increase in the number of cupcakes I get to eat! Periods and pregnancy come up a lot. Hair removal has too which is cool cause I've got some expertise to share there.

When I've been caught in the middle of a girl fight though, I feel like I'm out of my weight class.

But, the bad times are exceptionally rare so no use dwelling!

[janetcgtv]

It's almost like if we had been born Native American  In one tribe when we were found out, we would be placed in a lodge and the lodge would be set on fire. We would have to pick up a clay basket or bow and arrow. Whatever we chose we would be accepted.  Our women friends would be a lot closer and the other gender although staying friends would slowly drop from being close friends.
The more I am with women ,the closer I feel to them and of course my male friends would slowly drop me with doing things with them.
If I had be Sioux, my name would be changed to Women's Dress. I saw this in a movie.

Personally we would have been better off with being born with a vagina.

And then we would really know about having babies, breast feeding, being a mother, and having periods.

For us maybe one day medical science can implant a uterus, ovaries, and Fallopian tubes in us.

Sorry the last few lines I got off topic.