Social Teachings

[FindingJames]

Sorry for the horrible title, I didn't know what to call this. So the other day I saw this youtube video of this girl who was talking about trans* stuff. I never saw any of her other videos but apparently she's like an ally or whatever and informs people of LGBT stuff. So anyway, she was talking about social teachings (for lack of a better term) and she said something along the lines of "that people born with a penis" feel. But it got me to thinking...ever since I came out I've started feeling the same things. Like men are always taught not to hit women. I was taught not to hit anybody regardless of gender unless in self-deffence, but now I feel it especially toward women. Or when men are kind of taught that "real men" don't cry. I know it's not true and it's perfectly normal, but I still have this subconscious feeling that I shouldn't be crying because I'm a guy. I didn't feel these things before coming out, but it's kind of like this unspoken thing that kind of just happened when I started socialising as male. Do you guys feel the same way? And what do you think about her saying only people with a penis can feel these things? I know she wasn't being hateful when she said it, but it got me thinking.

[chaotic]

nah. i think that's just sexist crap. and while the pressure of "what women should feel/do" vs "what men should feel/do" is very real, again, to me it's just systematic sexism and nothing else. i personally used to feel pressured to act "feminine", i.e. be polite, smile, bow when greeting, sit nicely, etc, but if you think about it calling these things feminine is just so ridiculous, not only because not all women act like this but also because, at least in my opinion, actions shouldn't have a gender in the first place. you wanna smile at strangers, you do it. you wanna cry, you do it. who cares what you identify as.

so no, in conclusion, personally i don't feel pressured to act masculine and i simply act the way i feel at a given moment. however i do understand where you're coming from.

[Edge]

I agree with chaotic. I do feel some pressure to act more masculine because the masculine traits I do have tend to get ignored, but that's because people are idiots. I have some social lessons I was taught when I was pretending to be female that it's taken me awhile to shake such as the whole shame about sexuality thing, but that's due to conditioning and not genitals.

[makipu]

I always thought that 'men shouldn't cry' and 'shouldn't hit women' were ridiculous and will never agree on either one.

[FindingJames]

I totally agree with you guys. I think a lot of those things are a bunch of crap. I never did understand why women had to do all these things to be "ladylike" (although I never bought into that stuff before I came out) or why men can't cry and stuff like that. Not everybody is going to conform to those things and it doesn't make them any less of a woman or man.
But I don't feel pressured per se. Like if I wanna cry, I'm going to because it's a normal reaction. But for a split second before I do, I get this feeling that I shouldn't be crying because I'm a guy before I think "that's stupid". I don't buy into it whatsoever, but the feelings are still there whether I want them to be or not. And it's not like I had somebody specifically say "you can't cry if you're a man"...it was just this unspoken thing that happened after I started hanging out with guys and living as male full time. I've just never seen any other trans* guys talk about this so I wondered if maybe the girl was right and only "people born with a penis" feel these things and I'm just the odd one out.

I have to disagree with makipu though. I think the "men shouldn't hit women" teaching has some value. Yes, there are women out there who hit men and there isn't a "rule" that they shouldn't hit men specifically. And no, women aren't completely helpless people who can't defend themselves. But it is true that a lot of men by nature are taller, heavier, and stronger than a lot of women which makes it a lot easier for them to overpower a woman and hit her. We'll never know for sure if the teaching actually helps, but I think it has. But I guess everybody is entitled to their opinion. I think the best policy is to just stick to not hitting anybody (unless in self-defence).

I kind of mentioned this above, but I don't feel pressured to act male. I honestly just act however I want, but I guess I just naturally do a lot of male things (I think I have my brothers to thank for that) because I never really get misgendered by strangers in public. So that's why I kind of feel like these "social teachings" are different from feeling pressured to act 100% male. I act however I act but yet I still have these feelings. Eh.

[Roy]

I would argue that having that feeling is a kind of pressure, though the source isn't really in your face at the moment you feel it. Pressure doesn't need to be overt. People absorb all these rules/social teachings just by being out and about in society, even if they don't believe that the "rules" are correct (as you don't). It's part of understanding how other people will interpret you.

Starting to purposefully try to be seen as male in day-to-day life can make someone hyper-aware of his own behavior and how it fits (or doesn't fit) into what their society generally accepts as male. Even if you only spend a second measuring yourself against the "rules" before dismissing them.

Plenty of trans men have those feelings, it's not just you. I'm guessing that her phrasing of "people born with a penis" was a really clumsy attempt at trying to find an inclusive way to say "people who were socialized as male". But clearly you don't have to be socialized as male from birth to absorb some of the "rules" about what people expect of men.

I too think the "rules" are a bunch of crap. I find I only have those sorts of thoughts when I'm with people that I know believe that way. I want them to see me as the man I am and I have a moment of worry that whatever I'm doing will make them see me as a woman. So hanging out with guys more often might trigger those feelings more often too.