Do you percieve men and women in the same way being on E rather than T

[Just Shelly]

So much sexism it hurts.

Seems E makes a lot of people jump on the "man-hating" bandwagon, wonder if victimizing yourself and degrading men helps some people validate their femininity. I can't explain some of these opinions...

People who don't just look to themselves will notice men have it bad, worse than women. Men can't exactly show emotion, men can't be feminine but women can be masculine, men are expected to be self-sufficient, females rarely end up homeless... And try looking at suicide statistics, men are ahead.

I've had plenty of unpleasant experiences with females before, particularly younger ones. Having them ask my number while their jealous male friends stare and then get spat on because of jealousy? Check. Having a car full of drunk girls stop and start talking while I'm on my on walking home? Check.
Are these supposed to be good experiences? Should I have felt lucky because women are angels and they were giving me attention? I only felt discomfort.

Women are always victims and guys are always villains, this mentality has to disappear. The people who've hurt me the most in life were women, my favourite friends and family happen to be men.

No man hating going on here! I think your reading into things more than what is said.

There are many decent men out there just as there are some real beee-atches of women. Often men will get a bad rap for being dead beat fathers....but I have seen many mothers who have full custody and are dead beat mothers. Too often though men don't want much to do with the children after a divorce, it just is.

Where I work I get along more with men more than I do the women. But some of their habits and attitudes still disgust me. And as far as them not being able to show emotion....that's a crock!! If a man is afraid to show his emotions, who's stopping him....society!! No, it himself.

As far as women being the victim...statistics don't lie.

As for trans women and maybe men, being treated with respect and accepted, women have a big heads up on that. If a man accepts and respects someone that is trans, he does it by not saying anything. Women will embrace a trans with open arms most times. When I finally came out to some distant relatives at a funeral, all the women hugged me and told me how good I looked. The men avoided me like the plague! I talked with my one nephew that seen me a couple of times prior but even he had a hard time sitting there next to me. Its almost like they're afraid they may catch the "chop your penis off disease"

[Evelyn K]

So much sexism it hurts.

Seems E makes a lot of people jump on the "man-hating" bandwagon, wonder if victimizing yourself and degrading men helps some people validate their femininity. I can't explain some of these opinions...

People who don't just look to themselves will notice men have it bad, worse than women. Men can't exactly show emotion, men can't be feminine but women can be masculine, men are expected to be self-sufficient, females rarely end up homeless... And try looking at suicide statistics, men are ahead.

I've had plenty of unpleasant experiences with females before, particularly younger ones. Having them ask my number while their jealous male friends stare and then get spat on because of jealousy? Check. Having a car full of drunk girls stop and start talking while I'm on my on walking home? Check.
Are these supposed to be good experiences? Should I have felt lucky because women are angels and they were giving me attention? I only felt discomfort.

Women are always victims and guys are always villains, this mentality has to disappear. The people who've hurt me the most in life were women, my favourite friends and family happen to be men.

I don't know. Statistics point overwhelmingly to males causing virtually all the mayhem and crime going on in this world.

Testosterone is such a shi**y hormone. I should know, I was male.

Don't want anything to do with them.

[monica93304]

I notice men a lot more, I don't have the feelings for women I had before. It's more of being on the same team.  When I chat with women about men we always agree. Lol.

There are men in my opinion that are gorgeous, but I still don't trust them due to experiences in early transition.  So I'm very selective.  Eventually I'll find a man (I think).  I can't say I'll never be with a woman again, but if I am, it will be due to extreme emotional understanding and respect. 

In fact, I get hit on nowadays by women that I would've NEVER had a chance with when I was a male. Go figure.

[Hikari]

I did say I find men alot more scarier but, I wouldn't call that hate or sexism by any stretch of the imagination more like a rational response to what I seen, felt and noticed. Women don't usually harass me on the street and I have already had several men do this already, and I know it is only going to get worse.

[Carrie Liz]

I don't know. Statistics point overwhelmingly to males causing virtually all the mayhem and crime going on in this world.

Testosterone is such a shi**y hormone. I should know, I was male.

Don't want anything to do with them.

Wow, Ev. There's implied misandry, and then there's just blatantly stating it outright. I know a certain group, about half of the website in fact, who would probably disagree with you, they'd think that estrogen is the s***y hormone.

I admittedly don't have much positive to say about male socialization myself, (the culture, and what it does to guys, and the resulting behavior at least,) but for God's sake...



Let me challenge you here...

Watch the following video:
http://tinyurl.com/njoaxka

Now, tell me, what is the problem here? It's very easy to watch that video and say "testosterone is evil, kill all the alpha males!" But that's not what happened. It's a cultural thing. Once the culture of the troop was changed so that instead of being aggressive and picking on others, they engaged in social activities, that culture stayed, even when new "alpha" males entered the troop, and it's still going on 20+ years later.

So how about hating on our misguided cultural gender norms rather than hating on males? It's not their fault, nor is it testosterone's fault. It's the culture.

[Evelyn K]

^^ I read you and that's cool. I have no impetus to browse that part of our hemisphere to hear or read about it. I'm a male to female and interested only in our own specific agendas and topics.

[Evelyn K]

Let me challenge you here...

Watch the following video:
http://tinyurl.com/njoaxka

Now, tell me, what is the problem here? It's very easy to watch that video and say "testosterone is evil, kill all the alpha males!" But that's not what happened. It's a cultural thing. Once the culture of the troop was changed so that instead of being aggressive and picking on others, they engaged in social activities, that culture stayed, even when new "alpha" males entered the troop, and it's still going on 20+ years later.

So how about hating on our misguided cultural gender norms rather than hating on males? It's not their fault, nor is it testosterone's fault. It's the culture.

Listening to an excerpt from the video, "... world where ambition and drive and type a-ness and all that sort of thing dominates" <-- the reason this dominates in our society is exactly due to high levels of male testosterone. That same level of ambition and drive doesn't exist for women. High levels of testosterone drives male ambition in our society because a males worth and status is what attracts women.

High testosterone males who are attractive, driven and successful = alpha males

High testosterone males who don't cut it = beta males, or have napoleon complexes, or start wars over stupid sh*t.

Beta-males who have no validation and end up being average frustrated chumps = robberies, rapes, murder, etc. etc.

Elliot Rodgers much?



The fact is evolution is still playing catch up and eventually humans will have less testosterone overall. We're not running circles around dinosaurs anymore.

BTW, our society is much more highly evolved than baboon society.

[Ltl89]

Not much has changed in how I view people.  I see people much the same way.  The only thing is I do tend to get stared at (in a bad way) by men much more than women and it makes me uncomfortable at times.  And because I'm constantly afraid that people will know I'm trans and hate me for it, I'm a bit more uncomfortable and insecure around men.  Hell, this is true with both genders as I'm just uncomfortable with myself and afraid of people, but I'm scared of some guys deciding it's time to "beat the queer" or something.  Women may verbally insult a transwoman or gives us bad looks, but I don't feel as afraid of them as I do men in terms of feeling physically threatened.  While I Don't know if that is a more emotional and irrational response, I do feel a bit more on my guard and cautious around them which is a contributing factor as to why I'm not actively trying to date at the moment.  However,other than fear for my safety, I really don't see people all that differently.  Maybe all this will change once I get further in my transition.  And I should note that I don't agree with ideas that men are brutes or anything like that as I think there are many great guys in this world, just realize that there are bad people out there and the world isn't always safe. 

[Lady_Oracle]

There is some truth to what Evelyn is stating about guys though. Men are often the primary culprit when it comes to violence and murders against trans women of color.

With that being said the only thing that changed for me was how I socialize. I flirt with just about everyone, unintentionally most of the time. I just have a very social personality now, which is the way I used to be when I was a kid. I loved talking to people but after puberty started I became very withdrawn. Now that I'm finally breaking out of my shell, I have no problem having small talk with strangers.

[antonia]

Ditto, all of a sudden I've become very social and not only am I much more outgoing but I think people sense that I'm happy and smiling and feel much more comfortable approaching me

There is some truth to what Evelyn is stating about guys though. Men are often the primary culprit when it comes to violence and murders against trans women of color.

With that being said the only thing that changed for me was how I socialize. I flirt with just about everyone, unintentionally most of the time. I just have a very social personality now, which is the way I used to be when I was a kid. I loved talking to people but after puberty started I became very withdrawn. Now that I'm finally breaking out of my shell, I have no problem having small talk with strangers.

[Lady_Oracle]

mmmhmm for sure, I'm so much more approachable now too. Now if only I could use these new found social skills to find a romantic interest    I'm just focusing on myself these days, not actively looking but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't wanna be with someone.

[antonia]

Hang in there and make yourself available and approachable.

So far I've gotten more than I bargained for, I tend to go out every other weekend with my friends and on average I'd say 1-2 guys start hitting on me, out of which 90% are creepy, significantly older or just not someone I'm attracted to. Every once in a while though you meet someone nice, at which point I have to explain that I have a girlfriend

mmmhmm for sure, I'm so much more approachable now too. Now if only I could use these new found social skills to find a romantic interest    I'm just focusing on myself these days, not actively looking but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't wanna be with someone.

[stephaniec]

mmmhmm for sure, I'm so much more approachable now too. Now if only I could use these new found social skills to find a romantic interest    I'm just focusing on myself these days, not actively looking but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't wanna be with someone.

Well. I definitely perceive men differently. I was in my favorite bar yesterday drinking the elixir of life the tequila sunrise. I wear skinny jeans and a low cut blouse with a skin tight light jacket. I had a tinny cleavage showing and saw the bartender looking , so  all of a sudden I find myself speaking in a higher voice kind of flirtingly. I definitely wouldn't of done that pre-HRT

[meganB]

Pre accepting myself I found myself attracted to girls, but as I accepted myself I found out I also was quite attracted to boys (in fact I realised I had a huge crush on a good friend of mine and that at that time it was the first time I realised I was a girl, but as it scared me I denied it).

As I went on in my transition I became more and more attracted to boys. I still find girls just as attractive as before, but boys have become much more attractive than girls (little note, I was always attracted to boyish girls).

I used to dislike typical male smells but now after going on hrt those smells attract me. In fact just smelling the smell of my boyfriend (both natural and cologne) turns me on. If somebody else wears my boy's cologne I'm reminded instantly of him (I always look arround for him then xD).

[stephaniec]

Pre accepting myself I found myself attracted to girls, but as I accepted myself I found out I also was quite attracted to boys (in fact I realised I had a huge crush on a good friend of mine and that at that time it was the first time I realised I was a girl, but as it scared me I denied it).

As I went on in my transition I became more and more attracted to boys. I still find girls just as attractive as before, but boys have become much more attractive than girls (little note, I was always attracted to boyish girls).

I used to dislike typical male smells but now after going on hrt those smells attract me. In fact just smelling the smell of my boyfriend (both natural and cologne) turns me on. If somebody else wears my boy's cologne I'm reminded instantly of him (I always look arround for him then xD).

It is definitely a lot easier for me to accept my attraction to men being on estrogen, even though I always have been just in denial most of the time. I'm seeing women more on terms of being like them, even though I am still strongly attracted sexually, but also as one of them

[Mermaid]

It's throwing sand in people's eyes to say there's no sexism going on.

I reserve much growing hate, disgust and an affront for 'man'-kind in general.

This is what?

I suppose most posts are acceptable opinions although biased since it seems everything is about gender. I get that this happens because transgender people spend so much time dwelling on the concept of "genders" and tend to view people as their sex and not as... Well, who people are.

It's just I tend to see very hateful posts sometimes, I brought up the sexism thing here but it happens all over the forums. I recall when I first signed up, some transwoman said: "men are dogs and need to be kept on a short leash"... And when I scrolled down, expecting an outcry from someone sensible, I just saw "you go, girl!" comments. I can easily fetch that thread.

I know we have moderators here, but they never seem to crack down on this sort of "ideals", so I don't know. I get shocked sometimes with things I read, incentivating hatred towards men. Weren't most of you men back then? Did you have a ->-bleeped-<-ty opinion of yourselves just because you were "men"?

I wish I could answer the thread aswell but I'm not on E yet.

[Lady_Oracle]

I myself saw first hand how nasty guys can be but for every bad guy I've met, I've also have met really awesome dudes over the years. However I can understand having a serious issue with men in general, since a lot of us go through male puberty unwillingly and are thrown into a man's world. So we're given this perspective that cis women will never have, which creates a whole new level of sexism that's hard to shake.

And depending on when we transition is also a huge factor here. Young transitioners vs older transitioners, there's a big difference in experiences. One has spent decades in the male role, while those of us that are young and transition, only had a short experience of being in that assigned gender. So it ends up making those that have spent so many years looking from the other side, a bit more jaded possibly.

And it should be noted a lot of the violence and hate we receive are often from straight men usually, especially against trans women of color.  So with that its kind of hard not to be cautious about most men, since straight men are the majority in our society.

For me personally I love guys, my best friend is male (childhood friend) and hes extremely important to me. Hes always been super caring and when I came out to him, he was extremely supportive. I couldn't ask for a better friend. At the end of the day though, we still live in a sexist society that I hope changes for the better in due time.

[Evelyn K]

It's throwing sand in people's eyes to say there's no sexism going on.

This is what?

I suppose most posts are acceptable opinions although biased since it seems everything is about gender. I get that this happens because transgender people spend so much time dwelling on the concept of "genders" and tend to view people as their sex and not as... Well, who people are.

It's just I tend to see very hateful posts sometimes, I brought up the sexism thing here but it happens all over the forums. I recall when I first signed up, some transwoman said: "men are dogs and need to be kept on a short leash"... And when I scrolled down, expecting an outcry from someone sensible, I just saw "you go, girl!" comments. I can easily fetch that thread.

I know we have moderators here, but they never seem to crack down on this sort of "ideals", so I don't know. I get shocked sometimes with things I read, incentivating hatred towards men. Weren't most of you men back then? Did you have a ->-bleeped-<-ty opinion of yourselves just because you were "men"?

I wish I could answer the thread aswell but I'm not on E yet.

I have legitimate reasons to dislike my gender. One of which is:



Just reporting facts. (I also wonder what % of the female inmate population where involved or tied-in due to male influence of some part)

Also the thing about cracking down on "ideals" is a laugh. I do so declare I love fydo, and I hate cats. So time to hit the report button, right?

[Mermaid]

Most law officials are male, firemen too. If someone saves your life, it's not likely that it'll be a woman. What's your point?

Not sure what you're trying to prove with that graphic, if anything it's a problem with culture/society, not gender...

Anyway, this is pointless. Keep hating men and worshipping women, but if you ever look at yourself and see a lonely person, you won't have to think too hard to figure out why that is.
You outright say you just want distance from "men", nevermind who they are or what they did for others. Any decent person will only want distance from you...

[Evelyn K]

^^ That's fine by me. But I appreciate your concern. Thanks.