If you clock in public, do you think "omg you look fabulous" or "you dont pass"?

[Just Shelly]

I always think about the bad.....but that's me, I never see the bright side of anything!

Though the times I do noticed un-passable trans, I also see that no one ever notices. But then I start thinking about that as well....do they and are they just being nice. ugh!! I can never be positive LOL

Some of the positive feelings I do have our somewhat a narcissist type....its not that I think I am a narcissist but if I do see someone obviously trans, I compare all their features that don't pass very well and feel good that I at least don't have many of them. I should feel sad for them and part of me does, but it also helps me feel better about myself.....ya, narcissist!! Oh well!!! When I picked my new name I should of named myself Narcy!!

I think some of this feeling comes from me working very hard to be the woman I am and not rushing things. Even though I didn't rush and was being gendered female when presenting 95% male I look back at some of those pics (though few) and think WTF was I thinking. But than I think back at my cross-dressing days and don't feel as bad....partly because back then I was trying to portray a woman and not be one.

I do get a feeling of disgust at times when I see another trans that has either rushed things or gone over board with makeup and clothing choices. The reason for this, is because I am often grouped with this same type. I'm not one to like cross dressers that go out and about town expecting to be treated like a cis women, I never did this when I considered myself one. I don't have anything against cd's, but don't feel I should be lumped together with someone that is. I hated myself when I thought this is what I was. After finally accepting the fact I wasn't cross dressing but rather  trying to be who I was inside, the cross dressing basically stopped. Yes I still did some in private and when I finally did go out in public it was nothing like in my cd days, very androgynous at first and even after over 3 years FT I occasionally wear a dress or skirt, but because I want to and not because I feel I need to, to be a woman.

[antonia]

My thoughts and feelings about crossdressers are completely different.

The way I see things there is very little room for men to have any female traits or a fem side, yet most men are not 100% male, there are shades of grey like with everything in life.

A cis female has much more leeway to express herself more masculine, hence tomboys etc.

Just because my dysphoria is so strong that I'm willing to risk everything in my life to transition does not mean I can judge people who are not willing to put everything on the line.

Now some crossdressers don't dress their age, go totally overboard, etc but think about it, they were never teenage girls so they never got to learn from their mistakes and given that fact that many of them only dress once or twice a month not only don't they get a lot of experience but they don't form the same relationships with other women that we do and learn from them.

I feel like by distancing ourselves from and judging them we are judging ourselves, I'd rather try to help them express themselves better.

I always think about the bad.....but that's me, I never see the bright side of anything!

Though the times I do noticed un-passable trans, I also see that no one ever notices. But then I start thinking about that as well....do they and are they just being nice. ugh!! I can never be positive LOL

Some of the positive feelings I do have our somewhat a narcissist type....its not that I think I am a narcissist but if I do see someone obviously trans, I compare all their features that don't pass very well and feel good that I at least don't have many of them. I should feel sad for them and part of me does, but it also helps me feel better about myself.....ya, narcissist!! Oh well!!! When I picked my new name I should of named myself Narcy!!

I think some of this feeling comes from me working very hard to be the woman I am and not rushing things. Even though I didn't rush and was being gendered female when presenting 95% male I look back at some of those pics (though few) and think WTF was I thinking. But than I think back at my cross-dressing days and don't feel as bad....partly because back then I was trying to portray a woman and not be one.

I do get a feeling of disgust at times when I see another trans that has either rushed things or gone over board with makeup and clothing choices. The reason for this, is because I am often grouped with this same type. I'm not one to like cross dressers that go out and about town expecting to be treated like a cis women, I never did this when I considered myself one. I don't have anything against cd's, but don't feel I should be lumped together with someone that is. I hated myself when I thought this is what I was. After finally accepting the fact I wasn't cross dressing but rather  trying to be who I was inside, the cross dressing basically stopped. Yes I still did some in private and when I finally did go out in public it was nothing like in my cd days, very androgynous at first and even after over 3 years FT I occasionally wear a dress or skirt, but because I want to and not because I feel I need to, to be a woman.

[Evelyn K]

This is the core truth. For cis people they have this little subconscious mantra "I'm cis, you're cis, we're all cis. He's a he, she's a she, we are we and we are cis!" Of course they don't use that terminology because about 99.9% of cis people have never heard the term "cis" let alone know what it means...but hopefully you get what I mean. Most cis people aren't out there being the gender police, they presume everyone is the gender they present as. In their mind they think a trans woman will look like a drag queen parody, or like Klinger from M.A.S.H. or something really obvious (I can't say what they would expect a trans guy to look like, presumably they don't even know or believe female to male even exists).

It's the people who are more gender savvy who are more aware of differences.

I've said quite a few times now that passing is as much about confidence and presentation, not just how you "look". Yes it helps to have female features, and I've been relatively lucky in that department but I'm 6'3", never going to have lush natural hair and a voice that definitely isn't female...it amazes me every day how I actually pass, but it seems I do so I'm not taking it for granted - I have to work at it every day too...even when I don't feel like it. Having been full time for over four months I'm still constantly aware I'm not cis but they don't notice, despite my "non-normative failings" because of that mantra going through their mind. I present "cis enough" it would seem.

Also I'm really gratefully for iPhones, iPads, Kindles, etc since most people have their nose stuck in those most of the time. They're more likely to get run over crossing the road than notice I'm trans.

This especially and all the rest I can agree with. Nice post!

Most people do have a perfunctory casual observation. Unless you really stick out somehow, they won't notice or care. (unless in my example, supremely bored like on transit as antonia pointed out )

[Auroramarianna]

I think I look fugly.

But that's because I still present a guy. Yay for me... NOT!

But it's okay, I would like to pass, but I dunno if I ever will and it's really unpredictable. So constantly reflecting about is is useless and often results in whishful thinking.

[Allyda]

I would like to add;

On the subject of dressing one's age here I feel there are many misconceptions. In my opinion rather than one's age how one dresses should compliment their body type, rather than detract from it. Just because a woman is older shouldn't mean she can't wear a mini skirt or tank/halter top. If you look good in it, it's comfortable on you, and you can pull it off wear it regardless of how old you are.

I feel the same way about hairstyles. Back in the 80's when a woman reached 50 it was time for a short haircut and a poodle perm. While that may work for some women it's not me. I don't have a problem spending the time it takes to care for my long locks and I'll avoid the stereotypical older woman's hairdoo for as long as I'm able and maybe beyond.

Just because I'm older doesn't mean I have to look older.

Ali

[Auroramarianna]

I would like to add;

On the subject of dressing one's age here I feel there are many misconceptions. In my opinion rather than one's age how one dresses should compliment their body type, rather than detract from it. Just because a woman is older shouldn't mean she can't wear a mini skirt or tank/halter top. If you look good in it, it's comfortable on you, and you can pull it off wear it regardless of how old you are.

I feel the same way about hairstyles. Back in the 80's when a woman reached 50 it was time for a short haircut and a poodle perm. While that may work for some women it's not me. I don't have a problem spending the time it takes to care for my long locks and I'll avoid the stereotypical older woman's hairdoo for as long as I'm able and maybe beyond.

Just because I'm older doesn't mean I have to look older.

Ali

Oh LOL, reading your post made me feel dumb because I thought this was about our own feelins about our passability, but it is about others. Anyways what you said is true. There are lots of pre conceived ideas about growing older, just bcuz you grow older doesn't mean you have to stop doing things you have always enjoyed.

[Jessica Merriman]

Just because a woman is older shouldn't mean she can't wear a mini skirt or tank/halter top.

I love how I look, but if I ever did this they would pass laws to REQUIRE I cover up! 

[Allyda]

I love how I look, but if I ever did this they would pass laws to REQUIRE I cover up! 

Awwwe Jess I'm sure your exagerating. I bet you could surprise yourself with the right outfit. Remember it should compliment your body type, not detract from it. Many girls both cis and trans buy something just because it looks good on the rack, only to find out it doesn't look good on them. When buying outfits to get the best pick for what looks the best on you, they need to be tried on. That is, unless it's a sun dress or something you have experience wearing. I've noticed even thrift stores now a days have fitting rooms.

Ali

[LivingTheDream]

I love how I look, but if I ever did this they would pass laws to REQUIRE I cover up! 

They would only pass that law because all the guys would be drooling over you and there would be none for anyone else and all the ladies would hate you out of jealousy!

[Kira Phoenix]

I try not to do this, but sometimes the obvious ones I can't resist. Most times, I try to be really humble about "passing" in public because I know that I'm one those lucky girls who don't have to do much to pass. But occasionally, I get the really stuck up girl and I rip into her like a hot knife through butter simply because I just don't like the arrogance.

[Christine Eryn]

Just the other day, I had an encounter with a person who I thought was MTF. I was trying not to stare at her neck to see if there was a scar or adam's apple. I could tell she had some FFS, don't ask me how. I noticed she had big shoulders and no ass whatsoever, but her voice was 100% female, so it could have just been my "trans-dar" giving a false alarm.

If there's one thing that really gives people away, it's the voice. There's a retail spot I go to sometimes where a gorgeous girl works, she sounds like a gay guy everytime. Another memorable possible MTF works in a fashion boutique in a really gay part of town (where I am looking to move to soon). I happen to frequent this establishment from time to time, again there's a gorgeous girl who sounds like a whiny gay guy. It's really tough to not start asking them questions and/or advice, as it is of course none of my business.

[Allyda]

Just the other day, I had an encounter with a person who I thought was MTF. I was trying not to stare at her neck to see if there was a scar or adam's apple. I could tell she had some FFS, don't ask me how. I noticed she had big shoulders and no ass whatsoever, but her voice was 100% female, so it could have just been my "trans-dar" giving a false alarm.

If there's one thing that really gives people away, it's the voice. There's a retail spot I go to sometimes where a gorgeous girl works, she sounds like a gay guy everytime. Another memorable possible MTF works in a fashion boutique in a really gay part of town (where I am looking to move to soon). I happen to frequent this establishment from time to time, again there's a gorgeous girl who sounds like a whiny gay guy. It's really tough to not start asking them questions and/or advice, as it is of course none of my business.

Funny, I pass every day without even thinking about it with my atrocious voice. My voice isn't deep mind you and has little resonance. But I can safely say it's not in the ideal female range. Many cis women have voice problems from things such as being a heavy smoker for a number of years, or as what happened to me, suffering a horrible accident. Sometimes a woman's voice loses pitch just from age or other health related reasons. I know many here place a high priority on the voice, but I'm the exception to the rule. I never get stares, strange looks, etc., after I've had to speak in public and believe me as an IS transwoman who's lived the majority of her entire life in between genders I know what those strange and funny looks of doubt are all too well, yet since I went full time and have began my full transition I never get them even after speaking.

Yes, I am doing my best to work on my voice to make it better and I have managed to bring my pitch up some however this is recent. The accident I suffered in kinda limits what I'm capable of. I just wanted to point out that you can't always go by a woman's voice to determine whether she's trans or not, because many cis women have voice problems from a multitude of reasons lowering their pitch and resonance toward the masculine range.

Ali

[Suziack]

Many non-passing women are very beautiful.

When I clock someone in public, I think about the common experiences she and I probably shared.

Excellent!

[Suziack]

I crossed paths with someone in an aisle while shopping the other day. First, I noticed she was a taller and bigger than me, and really gorgeous - a term I rarely use. She crossed over to the next aisle and turned back down it, just as I was turning around. For a mere fraction of a fraction of a glance we locked eyes, and it was an exchange of one of those, "I know", "I know you know," and I know you know I know..." moments, where time is frozen. Then, time started flowing again, and we continued on our own paths.

I felt that that, in a sense, she had acknowledged me in a special, kind way.

[JoanneB]

My great "Sanity Test" advice about passing is to tell folks to seriously look around at other women in the checkout que Friday nights or Saturdays at the supermarket. Real women, doing real things, having a real life. How many of them "Don't Pass"? Heck, back in the day of 2 pack a day smokers, even the voice 

Outside of a trans support group, or LGBT event setting, I haven't a clue of is she or isn't she.

[Dahlia]

This reminds me of stories told by cis tourists who've been to Thailand....'seen MTF in stores, daily life, bars, markets etc... over there, so feminine, you couldn't tell'....etc.

Well, if they really couldn't have told...they'd seen cis females.

[Evelyn K]

^^ or clocked by their voices. There's also the body language give away.

[kayg]

Why "clock" anyway? There are trans people everywhere. They look how they look, we look how we look. It's so disappointing to hear trans people talk about how "painful" it was when judging someone else's appearance, or this critical assessment of clothes, and voice, and whatever. I think it's our personal choice to decide how and to what extent we "transition" (just to use that term for convenience sake for the moment). We should only judge when we're asked.

[Acodé]

I saw another trans woman at the grocery store. She only stuck out to me because of her build, but she was smiling and happy. After that passing glance, I looked around and no one was staring at her or anything. They saw a woman and continued their way.

[Allyda]

I saw another trans woman at the grocery store. She only stuck out to me because of her build, but she was smiling and happy. After that passing glance, I looked around and no one was staring at her or anything. They saw a woman and continued their way.

Truthfully, this^^___^^ is what most people see regardless of build or even voice. Just another woman getting through her day.

Why "clock" anyway? There are trans people everywhere. They look how they look, we look how we look. It's so disappointing to hear trans people talk about how "painful" it was when judging someone else's appearance, or this critical assessment of clothes, and voice, and whatever. I think it's our personal choice to decide how and to what extent we "transition" (just to use that term for convenience sake for the moment). We should only judge when we're asked.

I'm also forced to agree with this^^___^^. In an earlier response I outlined how appalled I was at girlfriends of mine who knew my history ridiculing another transwoman in my presence. In fact we're no longer friends because of that incident. Regardless we all have our bad features we aren't proud of, so do ciswomen. It isn't right not even in the least to judge others trans or not by their appearance.

Ali