FFS with Dr Spiegel or Dr Zoukoski???? Help!!!!!!

[Monaluv]

Ok Ladies Im very excited and at the same time cant decide who to go with for my FFS.. I had my foreah done last year and the dr I went to was very non aggressive with my forehead bone so this time around I want to make sure I go to the right person who will be more aggressive with my forehead. Ive seen work from both dr Z and dr S but cant decide who is better at forehead work.!!! I love the way my cosult went with dr Z and what he wants to do he really pointed out the areas I was concerned with so I was happy about that.. I will only do my forehead with orbital bone work and chin and Jaw contour..
So i need your help please tell me who do you thing does better forehead bone work..??
Thanks so much ladies...! 

[Dodie]

I used Dr. Zukowski..and I am very happy I did.  He changed my life and is my hero.  Dr. S was higher in price.  If you PM me will discuss more about Dr.'s
I consulted with both.
Dodie

[mmmmm]

Ive seen work from both dr Z and dr S but cant decide who is better at forehead work.!!!

Are you serious?

[Sandy]

Monaluv:

I'm a "Z" girl.  I had everything above the waist done by the doctor.  Overall I am very happy with what he did.

My facial work was excellent.  The one thing he talks about, or did when I went there eight years ago, was that his method of cutting the skin above the hairline was superior.  The reason was that his technique reduced the cutting of nerves in the scalp.  As a result, you should retain sensation in your scalp after you heal.

I did have some slight loss of sensation in my scalp, I would say 15 to 20 percent.  There is a slight numbness above my hairline which has never returned.

According to Dr. Z, other surgeons cut to the bone of the skull and cut many of the nerves and sensation may never return.

I can attest that my GCS doctor, Dr. McGuinn, had scalp advance with a different surgeon and has no sensation in her scalp.

Regardless, though, both surgeons are world class, rock star, surgeons and you can expect superior results which ever one you choose.

If you have specific questions, I would be happy to answer them.  Send me a PM if you are curious.

-Sandy

[Dodie]

Dr S. removes bone in the forehead and puts things back together if needed.Dr. Z does not do that he re shapes what you have. Both argue pro's and con's of each of their procedure.
I did not need much and my forehead with Dr. Z is perfect.
There is a lot of bone up there and can be pretty thick so I think most times you can get it shaped without removing and resetting bone.
I would talk to both about the pros and cons then you decide.
From what I understand, there are more risks with the bone removal...and the complications can be serious and lifelong.
Dodie

[Celia0428]

Ok Ladies Im very excited and at the same time cant decide who to go with for my FFS.. I had my foreah done last year and the dr I went to was very non aggressive with my forehead bone so this time around I want to make sure I go to the right person who will be more aggressive with my forehead. Ive seen work from both dr Z and dr S but cant decide who is better at forehead work.!!! I love the way my cosult went with dr Z and what he wants to do he really pointed out the areas I was concerned with so I was happy about that.. I will only do my forehead with orbital bone work and chin and Jaw contour..
So i need your help please tell me who do you thing does better forehead bone work..??
Thanks so much ladies...!

If you are looking for aggressive bone work to the forehead I would suggest you Spiegel without a doubt. Not that I am a fan of him or anything, it's just that I would recommend you to go with any surgeon who does type 3 forehead reconstruction which Dr. Zukowski doesn't do. Zukowski just shaves the bone and this doesn't allow for an aggressive change in 90% of the cases, unless you don't have frontal sinus.
Now if what you are looking for is aggressive work to the forehead soft tissues, then yes, Zukowski is known for over lifting the eyebrows. Some like this, some don't... I don't.

[mmmmm]

Dr S. removes bone in the forehead and puts things back together if needed.Dr. Z does not do that he re shapes what you have. Both argue pro's and con's of each of their procedure.
I did not need much and my forehead with Dr. Z is perfect.
There is a lot of bone up there and can be pretty thick so I think most times you can get it shaped without removing and resetting bone.
I would talk to both about the pros and cons then you decide.
From what I understand, there are more risks with the bone removal...and the complications can be serious and lifelong.
Dodie

It is not very common to see the side profile pictures of Dr. Zukowski's patients, where we would be able to see the result of his forehead work, and compare between before and after. Would you be willing to provide the side profiles before/after, (doesn't need to be full facial photo..)?
How much bone is in that area, can be seen on x-ray scans or CT scan images.. and it can be think, but that is the case in very very small percentage of patients, actually Facial Team came up with numbers, and it is 3%. 97% of patients have "normally" developed frontal sinus, which means rather thin frontal sinus wall, at around 2.5mm. I have a very hard time understanding the pro's of shaving/contouring procedure a.k.a. the "Type 1" in the case of 97% of patients. I can clearly see the pro's for the 3% of patients with underdeveloped frontal sinus.
Only way to observe the difference between what one technique can do compared to other, is to compare the before/after photos of patients. And by that I mean side profile photos, and 45° photos, where there is a problem as Dr. Zukowski doesn't want to provide the side profile photos of his patients. Dr. Mayer for example does, so just to give an idea, one who is interested can compare side-profile before&after's of his patients, to side-profile photos of Dr. Spiegel, or Dr. DiMaggio, or Facial Team or some other... to understand the difference, which is I think very important to those who are interested in having FFS.
The complications with "type 3" approach happen but are actually very rare... A certain surgeon who has done around 600 of these procedures, had to this day 5 patients with forehead reconstruction related complications. If done right, by surgeons who know what they are doing, there is basically a risk so small, that chin implant presents much bigger risk for complications, let alone rhinoplasty... The risk and possible complications after shaving "type 1" procedure are much more scary ... and I have seen enough of photos with broken or colapsed frontal forehead wall while doing my research, that even though I had minimal barely visable brow bossing, I didn't even think of not getting the proper forehead reconstruction done.

[Dodie]

It is not very common to see the side profile pictures of Dr. Zukowski's patients, where we would be able to see the result of his forehead work, and compare between before and after. Would you be willing to provide the side profiles before/after, (doesn't need to be full facial photo..)?
How much bone is in that area, can be seen on x-ray scans or CT scan images.. and it can be think, but that is the case in very very small percentage of patients, actually Facial Team came up with numbers, and it is 3%. 97% of patients have "normally" developed frontal sinus, which means rather thin frontal sinus wall, at around 2.5mm. I have a very hard time understanding the pro's of shaving/contouring procedure a.k.a. the "Type 1" in the case of 97% of patients. I can clearly see the pro's for the 3% of patients with underdeveloped frontal sinus.
Only way to observe the difference between what one technique can do compared to other, is to compare the before/after photos of patients. And by that I mean side profile photos, and 45° photos, where there is a problem as Dr. Zukowski doesn't want to provide the side profile photos of his patients. Dr. Mayer for example does, so just to give an idea, one who is interested can compare side-profile before&after's of his patients, to side-profile photos of Dr. Spiegel, or Dr. DiMaggio, or Facial Team or some other... to understand the difference, which is I think very important to those who are interested in having FFS.
The complications with "type 3" approach happen but are actually very rare... A certain surgeon who has done around 600 of these procedures, had to this day 5 patients with forehead reconstruction related complications. If done right, by surgeons who know what they are doing, there is basically a risk so small, that chin implant presents much bigger risk for complications, let alone rhinoplasty... The risk and possible complications after shaving "type 1" procedure are much more scary ... and I have seen enough of photos with broken or colapsed frontal forehead wall while doing my research, that even though I had minimal barely visable brow bossing, I didn't even think of not getting the proper forehead reconstruction done.

mmmmm,
Not getting into a pissing match with you on best procedure.. I picked mine and am happy.. Dr. Z my hero.. you picked yours.. hope you are as happy as me.
As far as my forehead, its perfect no slope at all perfectly female.. love it..  However, I can agree that some may need more aggressive procedures. All have certain risks. I feel lucky and am so happy.
I am going back for other procedures with Dr. Z soon.. I hope..

Dodie

[mmmmm]

It's not about getting into pissing match. Monaluv asked for help. Literally she asked who do you think does better forehead bone work, as she is obviously unhappy with previous work and is looking for more aggressive approach. Explanation and argumentation is much better way to help her (any anyone else) understand, than by just saying Dr. Zukowski or Dr. Spiegel is better. Helping her understand pro's and con's seems more appropriate than just saying that there are some pro's and con's. This is how I see it. I could be wrong...

[Dodie]

MMMM
Agreed.. and its a big decision.. Your asking for before and after of forehead.. made me feel you wanted proof that I got what I needed.
Kinda ticked me off to be honest but I had no reason to be upset.
I did find a nice before when I first started transition and so will take an after pic... that may help others see what I had and have now.
So when I get time I will update and post my photobucket  ..
Dodie

[mmmmm]

I'm genuinely interested in side-profile photos of his work, because it is not easy to find. And in my personal opinion, a side view is as much as important as frontal view, if not more for some people. For example, even though I didn't had bad self-image from frontal facial view, I hated my side profile photos (or mirror reflection) before FFS. Mostly due to nose more than anything else. After FFS I love my side-profile, I couldn't describe how much this means for me, after how I felt about it before. One thing that changed things was rhinoplasty, and the other really aggressive forehead&orbital work. Would I be as happy with the result as I am now, with more minor forehead work. Can't say. Despite that I only had very minor brow bossing, I think I wanted really aggressive forehead&orbital work, for a more drastic change in that area. Not everybody wants or needs such a change.

[Dodie]

I will post soon as I get back to office
The before pic is before I started transition
I am happy to show you
True fore to I did not like my side profile now I am cute and attractive
Dodie

[Dodie]

Monaluv,
I am sharing my before and after from Dr. Z with you in hopes it might help you.  As mmmmm said its hard to find pics.. My surgery was December 18th.
See my photobucket.  You will see two pics one a front view and one a side view when I had short hair.. this is a year or so before I transitioned and I had decided to start growing my hair out when I took those pics.. Obviously I was not happy with those pics and thought I had no hope of looking decent.
Anyway, I took a side view of my forehead also so you can see it too.
I don't think even with bone removal I could have had a much better result and I love what Dr. Z did for the rest of me..
Dodie
PS.. I am not recommending any certain Dr.  that is a choice only you can make through your research.. Good luck, I am sure you will make the right choice for yourself.
Dodie
Photo bucket link:    <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/asbbrinleepilot32659/embed/slideshow/"></iframe>

[missymay]

I love your profile; excellent result! But your presurgical photo shows that you had minimal bossing to begin with.  I had a lot of brow bossing before surgery, and I needed the type 3 forehead reconstruction, because I have a large frontal sinus, and the bone that was covering it was too thin to use the burring method, so I was not a good candidate for Dr. Zukowski's technique.  I do like most of the results I've seen from Dr. Zukowski though, he's an awesome surgeon.

[Dodie]

Hi Missy
I agree I had minimal also not much angle.
Hope this helps the original poster.
Dodie

[mmmmm]

Like missymay said, your before shows you didn't need the most aggressive work and change in forehead area, and Dr. Zukowski did a really good job smoothing everything out. Could you had anyhow better result with "type 3" surgery.. I think that would be completely pointless to think about now. I think your forehead result is great, the overall shape really fits well with the rest of the face. One more side-profile result, and a good one, is definitely helpful not only for Monaluv, but I'm shure also for many other.