do you think we as trans expect too much from the cis (potential trigger)

[stephaniec]

do you think in the short term as far as intimate      relationships we as trans have too high of expectations  of being excepted as potential partners. we have a legal and moral right to be seen as equal human beings and citizens , but is it really realistic to expect the general population to not have some questions about an intimate short or long term involvement. love is blind, but has society changed enough to where this is totally a non issue

[katiej]

I'd say that we should be realistic and understand that we don't fit into most people's expectations.  But then we can be pleasantly surprised when we find someone who accepts us as we are.

I'm walking through the initial process with my wife, hoping to God that she'll stick with me through transition and go along with the changes.  But I do realize that I am asking a lot.  I'm essentially asking her to become -- and be perceived publicly as -- a lesbian.

[Ms Grace]

I think I'm being fairly realistic... that I'm unlikely to end up in any relationship. Kind of defeatist I know and maybe I'll change my tune in a year or so but I haven't been in a relationship for over eleven years and I can't see it soon about to change, trans or not.

As for what other people expect... it would be nice to think that being trans doesn't make a difference, but a lot of the time it does.

[Ltl89]

do you think in the short term as far as intimate      relationships we as trans have too high of expectations  of being excepted as potential partners. we have a legal and moral right to be seen as equal human beings and citizens , but is it really realistic to expect the general population to not have some questions about an intimate short or long term involvement. love is blind, but has society changed enough to where this is totally a non issue

I have no expecations and wouldn't begrudge anyone for not wanting to date someone for being trans.  However, it sucks.  Everywhere I go on the internet, guys make a bunch of jokes and show hatred towards us.  It hurts to read that and feel like no one can or will ever love you.  Still, no one is obligated to date transgender people if that isn't there preference and it doesn't make them a bad person; although, I wish the jokes and constant violent imagery some people use when hypothetically talking about dating one of us would cease.  There is a difference between saying "I wouldn't date a transwoman" and "kill it with fire".  In any case, people are free to date or not date who they want, but I also reserve the right to be upset about it knowing that my love life will probably be as non-existent in the future as it's been in the past.  Guess I'm ultra sensitive to the jokes and mockery guys post about us around the internet as I'm very lonely and want a boyfriend- seeing that stuff makes me feel like a hopeless monster. 

[Auroramarianna]

I would really love to say no. Would love to. But reality can be very cruel. Truth is we represent less than 0.001% of world population maybe, if even that much?? So it's only natural that people are uninformed about the condition and have their own misconceptions and prejudices about us. A lot of the trouble comes from the fact that people are socialized to believe they can always know for sure when someone is transsexual (or rather, cross-dresser), because you can just "tell". People mix up transsexual people and cross-dressers in the same bag. And people genereally think cross-dressers are gross, despicable fetishists. Men are especially socialized to be manly and strong and whatevs just pure nonsense. They have to get all the girls and be super macho, and say goodbye to male real intimate friendships cuz otherwise you're gonna look gay. I don't think it's much of a problem with cis-women, but it can happen as well. Men are made to believe that to be with a man is emasculating and so on blablabla. So when they realize a girl they're dating is trans, two things come in to their mind 1) so she is really a man and I was tricked? and 2) is this a gay relationship, and then they run like chickens. Or they turn violent. Or they just come around. But this is not very common, unfortunately. There is one false premisse that leads to their irrational fear, and worries: A trans woman is really a man. Because people think chromossomes = gender = sex, when it's not. I think even intersex people who transition must deal with lots of trouble even if they are anatomically or chromossomically correct. Again depends, dunno.

Cis heteronormative guys think their self-worth is determined by either the number of chicks they go to bed with, or by their girlfriend's hotness or prettiness, where she hits the beauty scale. A "man" doesn't take into their statistics. Actually the more men they sleep with, the less they are recognized as real men by society. Again a transwoman isn't a man, but uh yeah. Society needs to evolve so bad.

[stephaniec]

well, I've just begun my transition so I haven't a clue if anyone will want to tag along, but I've also been alone in the relationship desert for a long time, but I'm an eternal optimist and have eternal hope.

[Hideyoshi]

"I wouldn't date a transwoman" and "kill it with fire".  In any case, people are free to date or not date who they want, but I also reserve the right to be upset about it knowing that my love life will probably be as non-existent in the future as it's been in the past.  Guess I'm ultra sensitive to the jokes and mockery guys post about us around the internet as I'm very lonely and want a boyfriend- seeing that stuff makes me feel like a hopeless monster.

Well, you have to be able to sense when someone's just a harmless internet troll. Someone who says 'kill it with fire' is most likely a beta virgin, so I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

[ashrock]

I have the option to date someone and I dont know if I should... Im just not attracted to him, or really anyone in a sexual way... Its hard because I crave the intimacy of being held, and I miss kissing a little bit.  My ex says (and I think rightly) that dating a sexual person Id end up just hurting them even if I act sexual to try and meet that expectation, it kinda shows.  Anything sexual is a complete and utter struggle for me and I dont see the point in it besides MAYBE getting some of the intimacy I need, at the cost of denying someone the intimacy that they need. I just dont know If I can do that again, I really hurt her and now that ive seen the pain it can cause, I cant imagine inflicting that on someone else.

[Jess42]

well, I've just begun my transition so I haven't a clue if anyone will want to tag along, but I've also been alone in the relationship desert for a long time, but I'm an eternal optimist and have eternal hope.

Un regards to your original question, I just really don't expect too much from people in general.

OK now to tackle this part. You can be married and made vows to someone and still be in a relationship desert. People change and can easily grow apart when two people take two different vies of life. Yep, I know for a fact until I changed it. Never give up the hope Stephanie. I am a hopeless and helpless romantic now and in my younger days ran when things got too close. " I love you" was a NONO for me to hear and would scare the crap out of me and I would run every time. And I probably messed myself out of more truly loving relationships, one of which I truly regret than anything else. Now I really long to go back in time and go for it. But I keep looking and keep hoping and eventually it will happen.

[stephaniec]

Un regards to your original question, I just really don't expect too much from people in general.

OK now to tackle this part. You can be married and made vows to someone and still be in a relationship desert. People change and can easily grow apart when two people take two different vies of life. Yep, I know for a fact until I changed it. Never give up the hope Stephanie. I am a hopeless and helpless romantic now and in my younger days ran when things got too close. " I love you" was a NONO for me to hear and would scare the crap out of me and I would run every time. And I probably messed myself out of more truly loving relationships, one of which I truly regret than anything else. Now I really long to go back in time and go for it. But I keep looking and keep hoping and eventually it will happen.

yea, that's been a big part of my problem, was wounded severely a long time ago and hid in the desert

[stephaniec]

I have the option to date someone and I dont know if I should... Im just not attracted to him, or really anyone in a sexual way... Its hard because I crave the intimacy of being held, and I miss kissing a little bit.  My ex says (and I think rightly) that dating a sexual person Id end up just hurting them even if I act sexual to try and meet that expectation, it kinda shows.  Anything sexual is a complete and utter struggle for me and I dont see the point in it besides MAYBE getting some of the intimacy I need, at the cost of denying someone the intimacy that they need. I just dont know If I can do that again, I really hurt her and now that ive seen the pain it can cause, I cant imagine inflicting that on someone else.

I use to be a very cold person for which I have suffered

[Jessica Merriman]

I don't think asking for basic human rights is expecting too much of anyone, cis or trans.

[stephaniec]

I don't think asking for basic human rights is expecting too much of anyone, cis or trans.

hopefully we'll all get there soon,  very soon.

[Jess42]

yea, that's been a big part of my problem, was wounded severely a long time ago and hid in the desert

Oh god I love the desert. That is where my curly mess looks the best and not fizzy. We've all been hurt. You just gotta get back on that horse and ride. Believe me, I have been hurt by both. But I never really gave up, just lowered my expectations. I really don't know if that is a good thing or bad thing though. I just don't expect too much from people and when they are more than what I expect then it is good.

[Ltl89]

Well, you have to be able to sense when someone's just a harmless internet troll. Someone who says 'kill it with fire' is most likely a beta virgin, so I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

Actually, I think most guys are more likely to think negative thoughts than not when it comes to us.  MAybe I am too cynical and sensitive at the moment. I'm just sick of being a walking joke or punching bag for other people and that's what I feel like when I read that stuff or get those clocking looks (which have been becoming more frequent as I advance in my transition).  It makes you feel like your subhuman.  I don't know.  Can't force acceptance, but I wish the world was nicer towards us even in their rejection.
'

[stephaniec]

Oh god I love the desert. That is where my curly mess looks the best and not fizzy. We've all been hurt. You just gotta get back on that horse and ride. Believe me, I have been hurt by both. But I never really gave up, just lowered my expectations. I really don't know if that is a good thing or bad thing though. I just don't expect too much from people and when they are more than what I expect then it is good.

well, I am trying more these days, but after so long you   tend to atrophy, but my therapist is bringing my warmth back

[Rachel]

I think most cis have little interaction with trans and as a result are ignorant of us and resort to heard mentality. If I am thrown out I would look for comfort in the gay community, gender and sex not important. Although, a nice guy, sober, smoke free, drug free and HIV free would be lovely.

I have known loneliness. In my 20's I was extremely lonely. Then I hid and tried my best to conform to the male norms. There are 2 people in my life and if exiled I will be lonely again.

[Tessa James]

In an ideal world we might all be treated equally and relationships would have more to do with our character than our hot looks.  In the current culture I see increasing visibility and awareness of trans people and growing acceptance.  Much like where gay people were 40 years ago our increasing visibility and familiarity will likely engender some interest and affection.  I think the day is here when we can be seen as someone with a fascinating life story and a unique perspective.  That we happen to also be trans does not diminish our capacity to love and be loved.  Who our lucky partners are remains to be seen and what dating is made for.

[Jess42]

well, I am trying more these days, but after so long you   tend to atrophy, but my therapist is bringing my warmth back

Good God Stephanie. Don't tell me I am gonna have to bring you out of your shell. You, Jessica and I need to get together for a Girl's night out since we are all abut the same age. Can you say road trip to Vegas or LA? three rich men and we'll all be set for life, unless all three would go for you and Jessica and Id' be up crap creek. Haven't ya'll ever hear that saying about experience and cougars are in big time, trans or straight. Atrophy, smatrophy. That is all I will say, 'cause mine has never worked right either. But guys don't care as much about that as smooth skin, looking good in makeup and two little things on the chest.

Seriously tough. A really wise lady told me over the weekend to stop beating myself up and I am gonna' pass that info to you now. Quit beating yourself up.

[ImagineKate]

Well given that most people don't even date outside of their race I think that they might be a little reluctant to date someone who is openly trans. I don't think anyone should want to be in something that's forced on them. That said, if you can find someone who accepts you for you, go for it. I believe the same way interracial dating is growing, I believe more acceptance of trans people will grow.