Vaginal Health / Douching

[Rachelicious]

As I continue crash-landing on the forums, I've been trying to bring up topics towards which I feel may be uniquely helpful or just 'good to know' based on my own research and experiences. One of these is douching and vaginal hygiene.

A few years ago I was having frequent problems with urinary tract infections, ranging from mild irritation that disappears seemingly on its own all the way up to rapid, heavy-onset distress that just screams GIVE ME ANTIBIOTICS NAOWW! Since my overall body hygiene is excellent, I studied events surrounding when I got infected, and noticed a connection between dilatation / sexuality and catching UTIs. Now, my doctors never had clear answers or solutions regarding this problem or whether I should douche, not even those who specialized in transition-related health care, BUT...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695466/ Further research revealed a study showing that the skin of neo-vaginas is a unique environment that harbors bacteria which are harmful if they enter the (adjacent!!) urethral area. I'd not previously considered that 'bad smell' I'd noticed in this case corresponds directly towards bacterial vaginosis and potentially infectious micro-organisms!

In the past year I've to the best of my knowledge not had a single UTI, which I attribute largely to a daily shower routine that includes douching. I use a rubber douche bottle with an applicator that sprays ~20oz. per fill of a water-betadine solution, being meticulous to clean it both before and after each use.

Indeed, after two days without douching, I do notice a slight odor seemingly from the deepest penetralia. If I've been douching daily for a week or so, I rarely detect any odor. And if I'm being a good (bad?) girl taking an opportunity to enjoy some lubrication from day to day, it seems to help keep it that much more cleanerer from rinse to rinse 

TL;DR if you don't douche & you get UTIs, consider thorough, daily douching. Or if you don't / won't douche, even just using lubricant regularly probably helps keep your vagina cleaner.

Lastly, for those who don't douche and are fine or think I shouldn't have to douche or whatever, it turns out that my mother has for my entire life douched daily in the same manner. Mother-daughter similarities know no borders 

[Susan522]

Congratulations on having the courage to post on a "delicate" subject.  I can only speak from my own experience which might be fairly unique.  Many, many years ago when I was just recently recovered from SRS, I hated dilating.  Fortunately, I was young and attractive enough that finding strong young men to ah..."organically" dilate me was not a problem.  It was waaa-aaay more fun too.

Anyway, in reference to your current situation, I found that douching was almost mandatory on (at least) a daily basis.  This kept things in excellent working order for many years until after my first divorce.   Then after ten years of marriage and a brief LTR, less than a year, there was a period, (almost two years), of sexual inactivity.  I never did get back into dilating and then, "woe is me", the dang thing just kinda dried up and almost died.  That is when I started detecting that unpleasant odor and started douching.

About that time I met my second husband who (just my luck), was exceptionally well hung.  (they called him "horse" in high school).  Anyway, things were just not working well, and so I "explained" to him that perhaps I could have it "looked into".  Amazingly he went along with me and I was able to get a revision using an eight inch piece of my sigmoid colon.

Ever since then, "problem solved".  I was again able to enjoy a regular and satisfying sex life and still do, douching at least once or twice a week or as needed after sex.  The thing is, that many years ago, I discovered the convenience of using a bidet for hygienic purposes.  I have had one in my home ever since and find it far superior in terms of cleanliness and comfort than merely "wiping".  So now, I wash/douche(?) several times a day.

Not sure f this helps an probably TMI... :laugh:oh well

[mrs izzy]

For a healthy vajayjay douching is not a daily event.

We want our vajayjay to build up good bacteria and a natural flora.

In over douching we kill these bacteria that allows bad bacteria on.

Same happens with antibiotic use.

Also hygiene Is important, wipe the back always front to back.

But yes there are times to douche and we all know the times.

[Rachelicious]

For a healthy vajayjay douching is not a daily event.

We want our vajayjay to build up good bacteria and a natural flora.

In over douching we kill these bacteria that allows bad bacteria on.

I'm a little fuzzy on this idea of good bacteria & flora. So you're saying their presence statistically out-colonizes or otherwise prevents the growth of harmful bacteria?

How do we even define or measure what 'good' bacteria are in this case, as in, what does good bacteria actually do for post-op vaginal health? I know what the bad bacteria do, and it does not take them long to have their way; and with their statistical prevalence, I'd need more than just the idea that this army of freedom fighters is possible to build by refraining from a method that so far seems completely lossless.

[Jenna Marie]

Brassard definitely recommends against douching after the first 2 months, and says it will interfere with natural flora (and for one thing, those good bacteria keep yeast in check, which is one reason why antibiotics can lead to a yeast infection). Personally, I took his advice and have not douched since then, and have had no problems. My vagina seems self-cleaning, and the odor is comparable to that of a cis woman - not nonexistent, but not strong or offensive or worrisome. I'm not going to argue with anyone else about what to do with their body, mind you. But I'm happy with this method so far.

As for the good bacteria, etc. the theory is that the neovagina ends up like a cis woman's vagina after the first few months.  And there's plenty of info out there on why douching is a bad idea for a cis woman, and in fact *increases* the chances of infections. http://womenshealth.gov/publications/our-publications/fact-sheet/douching.html

(It's also possible, of course, that not everyone is fortunate enough to develop the usual flora down there and therefore does *not* wind up with a cis-equivalent vagina; I'm comfortable after both my own and medical opinions that I did, but I'm hardly going to claim it's true for everyone based on one personal anecdote.)

[mrs izzy]

Brassard definitely recommends against douching after the first 2 months, and says it will interfere with natural flora (and for one thing, those good bacteria keep yeast in check, which is one reason why antibiotics can lead to a yeast infection). Personally, I took his advice and have not douched since then, and have had no problems. My vagina seems self-cleaning, and the odor is comparable to that of a cis woman - not nonexistent, but not strong or offensive or worrisome. I'm not going to argue with anyone else about what to do with their body, mind you. But I'm happy with this method so far.

As for the good bacteria, etc. the theory is that the neovagina ends up like a cis woman's vagina after the first few months.  And there's plenty of info out there on why douching is a bad idea for a cis woman, and in fact *increases* the chances of infections. http://womenshealth.gov/publications/our-publications/fact-sheet/douching.html

(It's also possible, of course, that not everyone is fortunate enough to develop the usual flora down there and therefore does *not* wind up with a cis-equivalent vagina; I'm comfortable after both my own and medical opinions that I did, but I'm hardly going to claim it's true for everyone based on one personal anecdote.)

What Jenna said.

I'm a little fuzzy on this idea of good bacteria & flora. So you're saying their presence statistically out-colonizes or otherwise prevents the growth of harmful bacteria?

How do we even define or measure what 'good' bacteria are in this case, as in, what does good bacteria actually do for post-op vaginal health? I know what the bad bacteria do, and it does not take them long to have their way; and with their statistical prevalence, I'd need more than just the idea that this army of freedom fighters is possible to build by refraining from a method that so far seems completely lossless.

Hope what she said helped, thats about what i would have said. I also am a Brassard girl so.

[Jenna Marie]

Mrs. Izzy : Also, having read the linked study in the OP now, the "good bacteria" are largely (but not entirely) equivalent to the lactobacilli being cited there. As for what they do, the biggest thing is - as that study says - they increase the acidity of the vaginal environment until it becomes hostile to more harmful bacterial growth.

(Honestly, I wonder how much my own flora owes to the fact that I have a female partner... without getting into icky details, there might be some "cross-contamination" there, plus that same study mentioned that penis in vagina sex seemed to lead to additional fecal bacterial contamination in the vagina.)

[mrs izzy]

Mrs. Izzy : Also, having read the linked study in the OP now, the "good bacteria" are largely (but not entirely) equivalent to the lactobacilli being cited there. As for what they do, the biggest thing is - as that study says - they increase the acidity of the vaginal environment until it becomes hostile to more harmful bacterial growth.

(Honestly, I wonder how much my own flora owes to the fact that I have a female partner... without getting into icky details, there might be some "cross-contamination" there, plus that same study mentioned that penis in vagina sex seemed to lead to additional fecal bacterial contamination in the vagina.)

It all comes down to the proper PH balance in the vagina. There is good and bad at all times but the good over grows the bad and keeps it in balance.

Just washing in the shower or bath tub can upset the PH balance.

Having a shorter urethra now will make it easier for UTI infections.

I can not stress enough the importance of wiping after a #2 from front to back. That alone can make for a infection in the vagina or the urethra.

Knock wood. I am almost 17 months and have had 0 trouble except for 1 spot of granulation deep in the end of my vagina. Even with the silver nitrate treatments its been trouble free.

I think more active sexual fluids might or would change the PH. I know that is known more the the fishy odor then the yeast (bread) odor. Dying seaman will bring that odor of fish to the mix of things.

So yes keeping a good balance is key and maybe you and i have a little extra help maybe??

[Rachelicious]

Mrs. Izzy : Also, having read the linked study in the OP now, the "good bacteria" are largely (but not entirely) equivalent to the lactobacilli being cited there. As for what they do, the biggest thing is - as that study says - they increase the acidity of the vaginal environment until it becomes hostile to more harmful bacterial growth.

(Honestly, I wonder how much my own flora owes to the fact that I have a female partner... without getting into icky details, there might be some "cross-contamination" there, plus that same study mentioned that penis in vagina sex seemed to lead to additional fecal bacterial contamination in the vagina.)

Thanks for the clear explanation. I've heard of the higher pH being good. I tried vinegar cleanses but found low-dilutions didn't clear odor very well for me, also that the acidity irritated my vulva / urethra a bit. It's interesting comparing theories since it's such a subjective experience.

[Monkeymel]

Bare with me on this tangent...

There is a good book called Sinus survival guide - which explains a lot about internal mucus production, good and bad bacteria of the stomach, yeast infections and sugar consumption. There were comments in there about virginal health as well...

The main point is that we consume far too much yeast and refined sugar (which yeast loves) which can give rise to infections in various parts of the body - intestines, virgina, lungs, nose and sinuses.

Maintaining good flora and pH is important - and having a lower sugar / yeast diet may also play a strong role.

In terms of douching, Dr Chettawut has told me not before 6 weeks post op (I'm only 4) and only twice a week. Exact details were lacking but I'm glad for this thread as it helps better understanding

[Rachelicious]

For a two-step solution, I'd imagine one could theoretically use a betadine douche to sterilize/clean, then follow with a lubricant that is slightly acidic (Emerita comes to mind), promoting a healthy pH in a clean environment. I haven't gone as far as to put yogurt up there yet.

Whole-body health is of course a factor in everything one does. I've had no yeast issues, myself, only the threat of BV microorganisms spreading to the urethra. My genetic mother (who is likely even more sensitive to flora conditions) finding relief douching in exactly the same way just makes me think genetics play quite a role in what works for any given woman.

[suzifrommd]

But yes there are times to douche and we all know the times.

Um... As a freshman newbie wet-behind-the-ears clueless brand new VJ owner, can I ask what those times are?

(So I can be a member of the "we all" that know.)

[Rachelicious]

Um... As a freshman newbie wet-behind-the-ears clueless brand new VJ owner, can I ask what those times are?

(So I can be a member of the "we all" that know.)

Before and/or after sexual activity, noticing a particularly offensive odor, being in open waters/pool/hot-tub, or experiencing itchiness or irritation in the vaginal or urethral area can all be good times for a cleanse. Usually if it's irritated you're a little late but it's still a good idea.

Aside from some girls when stimulated (and usually to a lesser extent than cis-) along with possibly sigmoid girls, we otherwise do not have a natural circulation of moisture in this area, so if anything has been... erm, left within, it needs helped out. It's a fantastic part of the body to have, but don't lose sight of the fact that it potentially can easily grow contaminants right next to an easy entry for infection.

I also highly advocate shower/bidet after bm - and shower rather than soak in the bathtub. Squicky as it is to mention, it's really just good hygiene, all the more if you're going to be active. Urethras are just so sensitive to contaminants... it really makes me appreciate living in the modern world's standards for cleanliness!

Figure out what works best for your new body ~ elated congrats! I still remember the excitement

[mrs izzy]

Before and/or after sexual activity, noticing a particularly offensive odor, being in open waters/pool/hot-tub, or experiencing itchiness or irritation in the vaginal or urethral area can all be good times for a cleanse. Usually if it's irritated you're a little late but it's still a good idea.

Aside from some girls when stimulated (and usually to a lesser extent than cis-) along with possibly sigmoid girls, we otherwise do not have a natural circulation of moisture in this area, so if anything has been... erm, left within, it needs helped out. It's a fantastic part of the body to have, but don't lose sight of the fact that it potentially can easily grow contaminants right next to an easy entry for infection.

I also highly advocate shower/bidet after bm - and shower rather than soak in the bathtub. Squicky as it is to mention, it's really just good hygiene, all the more if you're going to be active. Urethras are just so sensitive to contaminants... it really makes me appreciate living in the modern world's standards for cleanliness!

Figure out what works best for your new body ~ elated congrats! I still remember the excitement

what she said.

sorry did not go into thing further.