Why TS's say that those with a choice aren't really TS

[Melissa]

Here's my take on the motivation for TS's that say that those with a choice aren't really TS.

I think many transsexuals don't want to hear that this is a choice for some, so they say that those with a choice are not real TS's because they are afraid that people opposed to their own transition will hear that it's a choice for some and assume that it was a choice for everyone.  By trying to disassociate those who have a choice from transsexuals, I think that it's really an attempt to disassociate the misconception from themselves.

I know my parents have done this and said it was a "choice" for me even though it wasn't.  For the most part, they refuse to have anything to do with me unless I "choose" to detransition, since they figured it was a "choice" in the first place that can be undone.  The way my parents have treated me it one of the most painful things in my life and it is all caused by the belief that transitioning was a "choice" for me.

[tinkerbell]

Do you really want me to answer that?  I don't wanna.    



Posted on: August 03, 2007, 10:07:29 PMActually, people who think they have a "choice" should listen to these folks:

"It's not something for somebody in their 40s to do, someone who's had a life as a man, - - - If you're 18 or 20 and never had the kind of (advantages) I had, and you're oriented in that direction, sure, go ahead and make right what nature didn't. But if you're a 45-year-old man and you're an airline pilot and you have an ex-wife and three adolescent kids, you better get on Thorazine or Zoloft or Prozac or get locked up or do whatever it takes to keep you from being allowed to do something like this.''
 
"I wish that there could have been an alternative way, but there wasn't in 1975. If there was a drug that I could have taken that would have reduced the pressure, I would have been better off staying the way I was -- a totally intact person. I know deep down that I'm a second-class woman. I get a lot of inquiries from would-be transsexuals, but I don't want anyone to hold me out as an example to follow. Today there are better choices, including medication, for dealing with the compulsion to crossdress and the depression that comes from gender confusion. As far as being fulfilled as a woman, I'm not as fulfilled as I dreamed of being. I get a lot of letters from people who are considering having this operation...and I discourage them all."

Don't do it! That's my advice. This is the most awful, most expensive, most painful, most disruptive thing you could ever do. Don't do it unless there is no other alternative. You may think your life is tough but unless it's a choice between suicide and a sex-change it will only get worse. And the costs keep coming. You lose control over most aspects of your life, become a second class citizen and all so you can wear women's clothes and feel cuter than you do now. Don't do it is all I've got to say.

That's advice I wish someone had given me. I had the sex change, I "pass" fine, my career is good but you can't imagine the number of times I've wished I could go back and see if there was another way. Despite following the rules and being as honest as I could with the medical folks at each stage, nobody stopped me and said "Are you honest to God absolutely sure this is the ONLY path for you?!" To the contrary, the voices were all cheerfully supportive of my decision. I was fortunate that the web didn't exist then - there are too damn many cheerleaders ready to reassure themselves of their own decision by parading their "successful" surgeries and encouraging others.

I can speak the transgender party line that I was a female trapped in a male body and I remember feeling this way since I was 4. But, it's never that easy if you look at it sincerely and without preconception. There's little question that a mid-life crisis, a divorce and a cancer scare were involved in at least the timing of my sex-change decision. To be completely honest at this point (3 yrs post-op) is not easy, however, I'm not sure I would do it again. I'm now concerned that much of what I took as a gender dysfunction might have been nothing more than a neurotic sexual obsession. I was a cross-dresser for all of my sexual life and had always fantasized going fem as an ultimate turn-on. Ironically, when I began hormone treatment my libido went away. However, I mistook that relief from sexual obsession for validation of my gender change. Then in the final bit of irony, after surgery my new genitals were non-orgasmic (like 80% of my TG sisters).

So, needless to say, my life as a woman is not an ultimate turn-on. And what did it all cost? Over $30,000 and the loss of most of my relationships to family and friends. And the costs don't end. Every relationship I make now and in the future has to come to terms with the sex-change. And I'm not the only one who suffers. I hate the impact this will have on my kids and their future.

Anyway, I'm making it sound awful and it's not. There are some perks but the important things like being comfortable with myself and having a true love in my life don't seem like they were contingent on the change. Being my "real self" could have included having a penis and including more femininity in whatever forms made sense. I didn't know that until too late and now I have to make the best of the life I've stumbled into. I just wish I would have tried more options before I jumped off the precipice. I miss my easy access to my kids (unlike many TS's I didn't completely lose access to them though), I miss my family and old friends (I know they "shouldn't" have abandoned me but lots of folks aren't as open minded as they "should" be ... I still miss them) and finally, I hate the disconnect with my past (there's just no way to integrate the two unrelated lives). There's any number of ways to express your gender and sexuality and the only one I tried was the big one. I'll never know if I could have found a compromise that might have worked a lot better than the "one size fits all" sex-change. Please, check it out yourself before you do likewise."

"Recently when I was walking down the road a man swore at me and told me to stay away from the children."

"People have been so cruel. I can't go anywhere now without being shouted and laughed at. Sometimes they don't say anything at all, just walk past me shaking their heads slowly."


"But I have to remember that I'm a woman and that it would not be a very lady-like thing to do," she said.

"Be more than 100% sure because once you've had the operation, that's it."


"I got so low about myself and the way I was being treated by people that I asked a surgeon if he could change me back.

"I knew in my heart that they wouldn't be able to do it but I thought it would be worth asking," she said. "I was so desperate for so many years to become a woman and now I am I wonder what it's all been for.

"Society is simply not ready to accept people like me. I don't even get treated like scum. I get treated worse than scum."


"It's not really something I'm interested in to be honest. I've had quite a few complications with the operation that I don't want to go into but I'm not that keen to embark upon any relationship.

'I was a traditional male. I was strong and tough in business and the provider for my family. My wife Trudi had never worked a day of her life. I shouldered the complete financial responsibility for her and the children,' he says.

'I was like any other man,' he says. 'I worked hard and did pretty much what I liked. I enjoyed spending time with men talking about football, the stock market and, of course, girls. I think my sex drive was above average. I had one or two affairs during my marriage..."

"I was robbed of my manhood for so many years" explains Sam/Samantha/Charles, ignoring the fact that it was his/her decision to undergo surgery."

All quotes extracted from this link.

tink

[TheBattler]

hmm Tink,

I would of thought you could provide something more uplifting. I know I do not want to look into me being TS - but if I need to look there I will.

Alice

[tinkerbell]

hmm Tink,

I would of thought you could provide something more uplifting.
Alice

Alice, sometimes the truth is not so uplifting.  I know that this is not what most of us want to hear but it is a possibility.  Besides, I have posted this link in the past so it isn't new here at Susan's.  My opinion is this:  if I thought that transition were a "choice", I would look for the alternatives/reasons for not transitioning.  I know that some of us may not find this link useful or uplifting, but on the other hand, some people may.... 

tink

[MeganRose]

I personally find the idea that some people here can get offended by someone saying they chose to transition as a little odd.

I'm happy saying that it was a choice for me. To take the "I didn't have a choice, it was something I needed and just HAD to do it" line just doesn't really gel with my way of thinking, I guess. As an autonomous human being, I made a choice to take actions that would hopefully make my life better, and to put it down to fate or destiny or "I just HAD to do it" completely devalues the struggle, the actions, the achievements. I'm proud that I transitioned - for me to say I didn't have a choice would mean that I wasn't responsible for my actions and that I would have nothing to be proud of.

I know this doesn't work for everyone (probably no-one but me, really), please don't think I'm applying this to anyone else but myself. I just fail to see why, having explained why I see it as a choice, anyone could then conclude "not TS" in regards to me. To tell the truth, I kind of can't help but find it a little funny when they do these days .

Megan

[tinkerbell]

In other words, what these women say is their opinion, it is up to each and every one of us to know if what we feel fits what they have said or not.  People can say whatever they want but if we don't share the same feelings, nothing is going to change the way we view ourselves, our womanhood or "our" transition.

tink

[taru]

I'm happy saying that it was a choice for me. To take the "I didn't have a choice, it was something I needed and just HAD to do it" line just doesn't really gel with my way of thinking, I guess. As an autonomous human being, I made a choice to take actions that would hopefully make my life better, and to put it down to fate or destiny or "I just HAD to do it" completely devalues the struggle, the actions, the achievements. I'm proud that I transitioned - for me to say I didn't have a choice would mean that I wasn't responsible for my actions and that I would have nothing to be proud of.

I know this doesn't work for everyone (probably no-one but me, really), please don't think I'm applying this to anyone else but myself. I just fail to see why, having explained why I see it as a choice, anyone could then conclude "not TS" in regards to me. To tell the truth, I kind of can't help but find it a little funny when they do these days .

I feel the same way about this.

Saying that I didn't have a choice would imply to me personally that I don't take responsiblity for my actions and that I am unable to control my life at all.

[MeganRose]

I feel the same way about this.

Saying that I didn't have a choice would imply to me personally that I don't take responsiblity for my actions and that I am unable to control my life at all.

Nice to know I'm not the only one .

Megan

[Blanche]

Saying that I didn't have a choice would imply to me personally that I don't take responsiblity for my actions and that I am unable to control my life at all.

That is your opinion.  My opinion is that you aren't transsexual.  Ask transsexuals about this and see for yourself how many they think transition is a choice.  Not many I'm afraid.  The few ones are severe ->-bleeped-<-s with some cross-gender identification issues but not what the icd-10 or dsm would diagnosticate as transsexual.

[TheBattler]

hmm Tink,

I would of thought you could provide something more uplifting.
Alice

Alice, sometimes the truth is not so uplifting.  I know that this is not what most of us want to hear but it is a possibility.  Besides, I have posted this link in the past so it isn't new here at Susan's.  My opinion is this:  if I thought that transition were a "choice", I would look for the alternatives/reasons for not transitioning.  I know that some of us may not find this link useful or uplifting, but on the other hand, some people may.... 

tink

I have always known that if I do transistion it will not be a choice. I have always known I would run away from this if I could but my depression was real and I need to deal with the issues.

Alice

[MeganRose]

That is your opinion.  My opinion is that you aren't transsexual.  Ask transsexuals about this and see for yourself how many they think transition is a choice.  Not many I'm afraid.  The few ones are severe ->-bleeped-<-s with some cross-gender identification issues but not what the icd-10 or dsm would diagnosticate as transsexual.

Well, I'm a transsexual, and I asked myself whether I had a choice and I said yes, so what does that mean? Since Taru was agreeing with me, I assume you are also pointing your "NOT A TS! GET AWAY BEFORE YOU POISON ME WITH ASSOCIATION" stick at me as well? Ooh, fun  .

You know, now that you mention it, because I don't believe in fate , but believe that I have a concious choice in everything that I do, I mustn't really be TS. I might as well stop taking hormones, shave all my hair off, get a surgeon to cut off my boobs, change my name back to what it used to be and just go back to the way life was before. Trying to numb my pain by being out of my head on drugs 24/7 was SO much better than being a happy, well-adjusted woman and offending all the other happy, well adjusted men and women by believing in autonomy and taking pride in my choices and my actions. What was I thinking?

Seriously though, just because you don't think that you had a choice, doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't fit into your transsexual world view should be instantly dismissed. After all, transsexuals are people too. People think differently from one another, come from different backgrounds, and can have different opinions. Maybe you should think of that before you start trying to "diagnosticate" people who identify as TS as being something else?

Megan (or was it Matthew? I can't remember)

[Kimberly]

I consider transition a choice, and a viable choice at that. However, to me staying as I was was not a viable option, but I do not think that means I had no choice in the matter.  Staying as I was was choosing to remain unhappy an unfulfilled. Where as transition is choosing to at least try and find happiness. Personally I find transition to be the only sane option, even if it is not an overly good one. But, this is my case and is not necessarily your own. That is the thing, each path is individual, what is correct for me will probably not be for anyone else. However, I think it still amounts to being a choice between the lesser of evils, but as such still a choice, even when there are no other viable options.

A large number of thoughts hammered and folded...

[Blanche]

get a second opinion, even a third a fourth a fifth.  You got a choice.  what do you want to do this for? 

[MeganRose]

get a second opinion, even a third a fourth a fifth.  You got a choice.  what do you want to do this for? 

I chose to be happy. Why is that so confusing?

Megan

[Kimberly]

P.s. Megan, F is for Fabulous, like you.

[MeganRose]

P.s. Megan, F is for Fabulous, like you.

Thanks honey, right back at you

Megan

[jonnismith]

True it was a choice for me. Transition or kill myself eventually.So yes it was a choice and I chose life!

[SusanK]

Wow, some very interesting posts. Every time I bring up the issue, that it is a choice even if it is the only choice among the choices (one of one with the many eliminated), I get verbally pummelled, so it's refreshing to see others think we, as conscious and thinking people, make finding ourselves a choice. It is about being and the journey to personal fullfilment.

[tinkerbell]

Everything in life is a choice but there are multiple degrees of choices from the trivial (what to wear, where to eat), to the
more substantial life choices (career, who to marry, where to live, having children--and even at this level there are those who
will argue these aren't necessarily choices since children just happen, people meet soulmates, or are gifted in a particular field),
to the realm where the word "choice" becomes offensive.  People "choose" to have organ transplants but the choice is so
obvious, the need so overwhelming, that we don't talk about people choosing to have organ transplants, or cleft palates
repaired, or skin grafted on severe burns.  Yeah, those are choices but it's just plain dumb to discuss them in that light. 
For the profoundly dysphoric, I think the same standard applies.  Those other procedures are covered by insurance because
reasonable people recognize treatment as vitally necessary.  So it is (or should be) for severe GID.  Great, you want to have a
philosophical discussion about transition being a choice, that's fine, but you might also try an understand why your viewpoint
is offensive to those of us who have transitioned at great personal cost just for the chance to live a reasonably normal life. 

Dawn

Seconded!  Thank you so much for the words of wisdom again riot girl! 

tink

[Kate]

Why TS's say that those with a choice aren't really TS

Because some people build an identity based on being victimized and martyred. Choice = responsibility, and they need to avoid responsibility at all costs lest they not be passive, helpless victims anymore. Plus it destroys the whole, "Don't transition! It's the most terrible thing you'll ever go through and only people like me could do it!" bragging. Some people are self-destructive, and it manifests in both thought and action. Endless suicide "attempts," self-mutilations, drug addictions...

My guess is these people have never worked through their own internalized shame and guilt, so it HAS to be "no choice" so they and others can't "blame" them for the things they feel shameful about.

Personally, I think transition is a *beautiful* thing. It's not some awful death sentence, though these people do their best to paint it as some horrific experience in order to make themselves look like martyred, reluctant heroes.

Here's some thoughts:

1) Transition itself has it's risks and troubles. But it CAN be relatively easy to do IF IF IF you can get through your own guilt and shame about doing it. If I could go back and transition again, knowing what I know now and not needing to get over myself so much... aside from the damage to my marriage, it would pretty much be a non-event.

2) You don't have to "be a woman inside" to justify transitioning. All that stuff it political wackiness thrown about by people trying to justify something they feel insecure about themselves, IMHO. Needs > Reasons.

3) Just do what YOU need to do to "transition." Everyone's needs are unique, as is everyone's transition. For God's sake, don't get caught up in all the endless battles of what makes a "Real TS" and "Real Woman." Don't do something because some insecure person tells you "All real TSs would..." Do you want to be a Real TS? Or a real YOU? Figure YOURSELF out, and let them have their pointless battles while you go off and fix what you gotta fix to be happy. You don't need to please THEM or fit someone's definitions to be happy... you just gotta be YOU.

~Kate~