[blithering] Cross-Dresser vs. TG

[Asche]

As usual, I'm going around in circles in my head.  One minute, I'm certain I'm a trans woman with all the trimmings, the next minute I'm sure I'm just  dressing up garden-variety depression and adjustment difficulties as some sort of gender identity issue.  Most of what goes on in my head and my heart morphs from one thing to another like Tam Lin trying to get away from Queen Mab.  So I try to find things that don't change.

The main thing that doesn't change is that I like to wear feminine clothes.  (I wouldn't say I dress as a woman, since I don't try to make people think I'm a woman.)  Skirts, dresses, puffed sleeves, petticoats, frills and lace, etc.  I also know that I have never felt like I was a woman in a man's body.  So for years, I assumed I was just a cross-dresser.

Except that my experience of cross-dressers on the web (the sites I visited, at least) was that they were very different from me.  They came across as Manly Men (including the sexism and misogyny) who sometimes liked to dress up and pretend they were women, without knowing (or wanting to know) what it was really like to be a woman.  I tried to engage with them, but my gut reaction was always that I want no part of this.  (And I don't think they wanted any part of me, either.)  If I'm a cross-dresser, I'm not that kind of cross-dresser.  That's another thing that doesn't change.

Yet another thing that doesn't change is that I want nothing to do with masculinity -- by which I mean any of the many ways "being a man" is understood in the world I live in.  Even back in the days when I was trying to fit in (childhood) and not get beaten up, I was no good at being and doing what society expected a boy to be and when I imagined what my life would be like if I did succeed, it didn't seem at all appealing anyway.  So eventually I gave up.  As an adult, I perform masculinity only as much as I have to to get by in life, sometimes less.

A little vaguer in my mind is how I feel about my body.  Mostly, I just don't think of it, the way I just don't think about dying.  When I do, I feel like I'm ugly.  I don't know how much is because I look male (I've never found the male form attractive) and how much because I feel like I am intrinsicly ugly (so I'd think I was ugly even if I looked like a supermodel.)  Sometimes I imagine I would have been happier if I had a female body, but then I think that could just be me thinking the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.  I don't know if this counts as body dysphoria.

However unrealistic it might be, I've always had the suspicion that girls/women had it easier, or at least had a nicer existence.  I thought, if I'd been a girl, I wouldn't have been expected to beat off my older brother when he beat me up, or enjoy getting creamed in the compulsary after-school tackle football.  Maybe people would have thought I was pretty.  Maybe who I was would be something people would like.  As an adult, maybe I'd fit in with women and they wouldn't be wary of me.  Maybe I wouldn't feel like a space alien.  On the other hand, MRAs also run around claiming that women have it easier than men, and I'm not sure I want to have anything in common with them.

Sometimes, when I have time to think and dream, I imagine being a woman and being happy, or at least happier.  But then I remember the SF short story where a man who works on a garbage truck keeps thinking fate put him in the wrong place and he really belongs in a different (i.e., more noble) life, and then he's told (by some sort of interdimensional fairy godfather) that he really is in the wrong universe and is brought to his rightful place -- which turns out to be shoveling manure in a stable.  Maybe if I do transition, it will be like trading a garbage truck for a manure pile.

[crowcrow223]

Idealising women's lives can make you think that this is what You want. Your words remind me of one of the persons in the documentary Regretters. He transitioned because he saw in media how successful and free and happy a transwoman was. He thought of transition as an escape.

Would you still want to transition knowing you might lose everything and everyone? being pushed to the line in almost every part of your life & endure suffering?

We can't give you definite answers, only a therapist can, and sometimes they don't even know the answers.

However, the truth is, many of us have gone through various paths, so just because you see yourself as crossdresser now, doesn't mean anything

[Jill F]

Some of the things my therapist asked me when I was trying to figure myself out-

Do you wear women's clothes to relieve anxiety or depression/feel better, or is it a sexual thing? 
Do you masturbate in women's clothes and then take them off immediately afterward?
How much of your day do you spend with gender issues on your mind/wish you could make physical changes?
Has it become worse lately?

I will have to chime in that a therapist cannot give you the answers directly- only you can truly find them.  A good therapist can help you find them more easily.

[Asche]

Would you still want to transition knowing you might lose everything and everyone? being pushed to the line in almost every part of your life & endure suffering?

Probably not what you meant, but: actually, I don't think I'd lose "everything and everyone."
Pretty much everyone (outside of work) knows that I'm gender non-conforming already, given how I dress.  One of the communities I'm active in (Contra Dance) already has trans women, the other (church) is fairly LGBTQ friendly, and no one batted an eye when I started showing up in skirts.  I'm not married any more, my kids are all (nominally ) adults, and none of them are, let's say, connected with social expectations enough to flip out over it.  My birth family is, let's say, not close.  It would be sad if some or all rejected me over it, but it wouldn't be heartbreaking.  Work might or might not be an issue, but I'm getting close to retirement.

We can't give you definite answers, only a therapist can, and sometimes they don't even know the answers.

Tell me about it
(And some therapists have the answers, only they're the wrong ones.)

However, the truth is, many of us have gone through various paths, so just because you see yourself as crossdresser now, doesn't mean anything

I don't actually see myself as a crossdresser any more.  It's more a matter of trying on ways of seeing myself and seeing how they don't fit.  Except that how they don't fit varies from day to day.

[Asche]

Do you wear women's clothes to relieve anxiety or depression/feel better, or is it a sexual thing? 
Do you masturbate in women's clothes and then take them off immediately afterward?

I wear them because I feel more myself when I do.  When I'm in "male drag" (mostly for work, but also in situations where my kids might be affected if I appear too non-standard) I feel like I'm suppressing my self to be what other people expect me to be.  No, it's nothing sexual, or if it is, it's sexual in such a roundabout way that I can't see it.  (Cf. screwdriver = phallic symbol, plugging in network cables is intercourse, that sort of thing.)

How much of your day do you spend with gender issues on your mind/wish you could make physical changes?
Has it become worse lately?

It goes through my mind a fair amount when I'm not occupied with something more urgent.

I started wearing skirts about 10 years ago (not long after the divorce), but the gender questions started about a year ago, after reading a post by Zinnia Jones.

A good therapist can help you find them (=answers) more easily.

At this point, I'm not expecting answers.  I'm still working on the questions.  As the title says, it's more just me blithering while trying to figure out what to figure out.  I figured I could just sit in my apartment and brood, but it might be good for me to try to express what I'm feeling.  And who knows?  Maybe people will be able to relate to me better if I don't hide what's going on inside me.

And, yes, I'm seeing a therapist.

[LivingTheDream]

I have fought with this topic for awhile too, prolly still am a bit to be honest but I guess I will chime in w/ my thoughts and opinions on it too.

I certainly don't think that it is weird or abnormal to go from thinking you are 100% trans to having doubts to thinking you're a crossdresser cuz I do it too. Depending on my mood, what's going on, what I am thinking about, I go from being omg it's so obvious I am trans to who am I kidding, I'm not trans, I'll never pass, I'll never be seen as a women, etc.

I also know that I have never felt like I was a woman in a man's body.  So for years, I assumed I was just a cross-dresser.

Its certainly not unheard of to never have considered yourself as a woman in a man's body either. I never really thought about it until recently so I can say the same is true of me as well and I know there are others who feel the same way, so that doesn't mean you are not or cannot be trans.

Except that my experience of cross-dressers on the web (the sites I visited, at least) was that they were very different from me.  They came across as Manly Men (including the sexism and misogyny) who sometimes liked to dress up and pretend they were women, without knowing (or wanting to know) what it was really like to be a woman.  I tried to engage with them, but my gut reaction was always that I want no part of this.  (And I don't think they wanted any part of me, either.)  If I'm a cross-dresser, I'm not that kind of cross-dresser.  That's another thing that doesn't change.

I am going to steal  something that I have heard here for this one. If you have met one trans person, well you have met one trans person. Sure, trans people share some similarities but not all of em.  Everyone is different, their stories are different, backgrounds are different etc.

The same is true for crossdressers. Some do it for sexual releases, some do it just in private, some do it part time, some do it full time, some do it to be seen/treated as women, some just like women's fashion etc etc etc..

Just because you don't fit in exactly with crossdressers or trans people doesn't mean that you are or are not one, can or cannot be one.

A little vaguer in my mind is how I feel about my body.  Mostly, I just don't think of it, the way I just don't think about dying.  When I do, I feel like I'm ugly.  I don't know how much is because I look male (I've never found the male form attractive) and how much because I feel like I am intrinsicly ugly (so I'd think I was ugly even if I looked like a supermodel.)  Sometimes I imagine I would have been happier if I had a female body, but then I think that could just be me thinking the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.  I don't know if this counts as body dysphoria.

I am right there with ya on this. I've always felt I was hideous, I don't really know why, if its because I look male or not or if I just think I am ugly and nothing is ever gonna change that. Given a choice, I know I'd rather have a female body, I can't imagine it not being 1000x better than the one I got, and that's because I imagine if I was happier about my appearance that that = happier about life = better life, but like you I wonder if I'm thinking the grass is greener on the other side of the fence as well.

My advice: Don't really worry about labels. Sure it is nice to be able to say, hey I'm such and such, but labels don't always really fit, are confusing as hell sometimes, stressful as hell many times and can mean different things to different people.

Focus on what you wanna do, how you wanna be, how you wanna be seen, how you feel, stuff like that. Take all the time you need to figure that out; there is no rush. Trust yourself, trust you feelings, experiment and take things slow.

[Kaelin]

The "crossdresser" term is difficult, because it places a focus on a clothing's gender that many don't want.  If someone's interest in a dress/skirt/blouse has everything to do with aesthetic/function and nothing to do with the gender associated with it, that person doesn't want to be portrayed as being motivated by the clothing's gender.  It'd be like referring to catholic mass as ritualistic cannibalism role-play.  For people who look at clothing as conferring gender, "crossdresser" is probably a better fit, and there will tend to be gender-essentialist attitudes that you do not relate to.

If "gender-role nonconformist" wasn't such a mouthful, one might lean on that.  "Genderqueer" can be good, but it's a catch-all for a lot of other things.

Women have it harder than men as a rule.  Given your interests, your experience may an exception, but I don't think you want your values and interests to determine your gender.  Don't think about whether a male, female, or non-binary body looks "better" or fits society's norms but which best fits your identity.  If you figure that out, I think you may have your answer.