the term "full-time"

[Zumbagirl]

Zumba you are missing the point sweetie. MtFs are considered by the general public as potential molesters, rapist's, etc., when in female area's. The same attitude does NOT prevail against females in male area's. This attitude adds a whole new dimension to the trials and challenges of MtFs in relation to real life full time experience.

I've been living full time for 15 years now. No one has ever called me that or hinted. Those are just imagined demons that people want to use to call themselves victims. My experience in life is limited to the people around me, but I have found even the gnarliest bible thumper (perverts in the bathroom type) can still be a friend. I may not agree on much but that doesn't mean we couldn't be friends. At the very least it's one mind I can change . One less enemy.

[Jessica Merriman]

Those are just imagined demons

Those imagined demons sure get a lot of real life flesh and blood people sentenced to prison every year in the U.S. 

[Zumbagirl]

My view is that RLE for MtFs is much more difficult without hormones because of clothing, hair and physical features.  Not kidding.

FtMs can cut their hair and wear more loose clothing and they can pass more easily, in my opinion. Why? A lot of men don't have much facial hair, some shave it away and a few even go for electrolysis..

Whereas if a MtF wears female clothing in many cases it doesn't fit right and it is very obvious that they are not female shaped because female clothing is often more form fitting. Hormones take care of that in most cases and "passing" is much easier once you've been filled out by hormones.

There is also the stigma of a man in a dress. Women wear pants. Have worn them for a long time. Do men wear skirts? Apart from kilts and religious or ethnic wear, in western cultures the answer is generally NO.
t have to shave an
Other points are valid - the stigma of men as child molesters, rapists etc.

Again I say that the point is being missed. Can an FTM wear men's jeans and fishing waders and hang around home depot talking about the tensile strength of a good 10 penny nail? Sure, but they also have years of social conditioning they have to unlearn, a voice to be changed, etc. a transman in his late 30s who doesn't have to shave and has a wonderful complexion and a somewhat sing songy voice is probably going to have a hard time getting clocked even as a metrosexual man. An FTM wants to be seen as a man not as a woman pretending to be a man. Being a man as I'm sure any MTF could testify is not just about the clothes one wears. It's more sublime than that.

I feel the journey is no less different or life altering no matter what side of the street one comes from. That's the teaching moment that I got from the RLE. The only demons we create are demons we invent to haunt ourselves and keep us down because of the taboo nature of sex in our culture.

[Zumbagirl]

Those imagined demons sure get a lot of real life flesh and blood people sentenced to prison every year in the U.S. 

Could you please explain this? I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Thanks!

[skin]

I've been living full time for 15 years now. No one has ever called me that or hinted. Those are just imagined demons that people want to use to call themselves victims.

I'm really happy for you that your experience has been so positive, but not everyone is that lucky.  To say that everyone who hasn't had it as easy as you are just imagining things is quite rude.  Not everyone is going to have the same experience as you.

[ImagineKate]

Some woman high school teachers have recently been convicted of having sexual encounters with boy students. However, women are still not seen as sexual predators.

That's true because society's perception is that a male having sex with an older woman is a "score" whereas for a female it's statutory rape.

[V M]

Stay on topic people

Being a woman is a lot of work, I'm not sure how anyone can avoid going full time 

[Mariah]

You can't avoid going full time. I wouldn't want to either. I started full time before HRT, but I was able to pull that off without any real problem. As stated it's also needed for SRS. My insurance covers SRS and very clearly states the 12 month requirement in the paperwork that comes with their transgender services program that they also require to cover it.

[antonia]

The term full time is interesting because to the outward world it seems to imply that the switch is near instantaneous, my observation is that many FTMs gradually transition and in my case I've chosen to let nature do it's thing and let society see my progress as it happens.

I consider myself full time since I only wear female clothing, I only speak in my female voice, I wear make-up most days and generally try my best to present as female but since I'm comfortable with myself and not ashamed in any way I figured why not do a open transition.

Perhaps full time is more of a mental state and commitment to present permanently as your preferred gender than anything else.

[katiej]

Again I say that the point is being missed. Can an FTM wear men's jeans and fishing waders and hang around home depot talking about the tensile strength of a good 10 penny nail? Sure, but they also have years of social conditioning they have to unlearn, a voice to be changed, etc.

I feel the journey is no less different or life altering no matter what side of the street one comes from.

You're absolutely right that their experience in transition is no less difficult than ours.  T does more for them than E does for us, but I can see how their social transition may even be a bit more difficult than ours.

I think the difference is that FTM's who aren't yet passing, are seen as butch women, which is acceptable to most in society.  Whereas MTF's who aren't yet passing are seen as guys in dresses, and society isn't nearly as accepting of that.

[Frank]

I would just like to thank you all for joining in and having a lively discussion. That is all, continue on...I find it rather fascinating.

[Taka]

full-time for an mtf often means wearing so visibly female attire that with how society still works, it would be weird to not realize they're presenting as and wanting to be treated as women.

full-time for an ftm is more like a whole lot of invalidation, and even more invalidation. talking about full-time when all people are willing to see is a cute tomboy, seems kind of pointless. if all women still wore dresses, it would be a much more sensational thing though, and could be talked about as much as trans girls talk about it.

just imagine if everybody wore dresses, and the only gender cues were things like the length, color preferences, amount of lace. wouldn't be too easy for an mtf to show the world that they're serious about this whole transition thing, particularly if men had more variation in dresses than what's accepted for women.

[Sammy]

I'm not sure how anyone can avoid going full time 

It is pretty easy - just_dont_do_it

[captains]

From an FTM pov, I think a lot of you guys are right on the money. The term "full-time" is essentially meaningless for me. It doesn't matter if I wake up in the morning and think, "Alright world, today's the day I present as male!" The world doesn't see me that way. There's essentially nothing I can do for the world to see me that way. It's the flip-side of the "T does all the work" thing. Right now, I'm binding, my hair is short and my clothes are unambiguously masculine. But I've been miss'd and ma'am'd twice now, and I've only been here an hour.

What we regard as masculine is the societal default. Taka is right. When an MTF woman steps outside in skinny jeans and a blouse, she's sending a signal to the world that says "I wish, in some way, to be associated with female-ness." It doesn't matter if she passes or not -- that act, in and of itself, is visible to those around her. Of course, that can be scary, even dangerous. If she doesn't pass, that assertion of femininity can leave her vulnerable to bigots who see her as, at best, a cross-dresser, and at worst, a rapist. The stigma is shameful, and it's not something that most FTMs often face.

I don't wish to suggest transitioning as an FTM is easy, of nor that it's without violence (it clearly isn't; FTMs are particularly vulnerable to corrective rape, especially when in men's spaces), just that it's different, and on a daily basis, imo, less threatening. What it is, however, is a slow grind of powerlessness: invisibility, invalidation, impotence. The fact that many men are clean-shaven is irrelevant because so long as I possess even a whiff of girlhood, I cannot possibly be a man, "real" or otherwise. So why bother to talk about full time? I'm "obviously a girl" despite taking every action to express myself to the contrary. I barely even get pegged as "trans" or gender-nonconforming. My experiences are nothing like that of a trans girl's debut. This is why "passing" gets the brunt of the focus.

There is an element of overlap, though. I wouldn't call myself "full time" by any standard because I am scared sh*tless to pack (ie, to wear a prosthetic penis) most days, because it removes the plausible deniability I might have in the face of anti-trans sentiment (or even just if I run into my neighbor). Realistically, I know ain't no one gonna be staring at my junk, but whoo boy. Makes me nervous.

Does any of this make sense?