I found my female voice, but .....

[Ms Bev]

I know, I know.....those who have trod the steps before me will say "what did you expect a perfect female voice?  You just started!"
And I know it's going to take time.  But like everyone else, I want it NOW.  I'm tired of "sir" on the phone.  I'm still working with the "Exceptional Voice" first CD, and am good with the vocal things.  Last week, I put a new message on my cell phone, and later, got a cheery message from Marcy "hello Beverly, your new message sounds very feminine..."    That's my sweetie    
So, I've kept at it, until today, when I finally, found Beverly's voice!  What a neato thing!  I promptly recorded a new message on my phone while driving, with Beverly's voice.  Poor Beverly has been running around with a 'feminized' version of Michael's voice, which is just not good enough.
So now I have this voice....this wonderful voice, but I can't keep it, and drift off after about 10 minutes or so, and have a hard time picking it up again.  When I got home, I asked Marcy if she wanted to hear my new message.  "Sure..".  She was happy to listen.  I handed her the phone, and watched her expression go from regular expectation to an odd, almost shocked expression.  "Play it again!" she said.
"Well", I asked, "what do you think?  You look kind of....creeped out..."
"No", she said...."not creeped out, but it's sooo strange, your voice.....it's a woman speaking!"
She found it oddly fascinating, I think.  So, I was a little concerned, did she like it, dislike it?  She said it was different, and she would get used to it, another new thing.
Later tonight, I found my voice again, and she was just fine with it.  Now I want the voice all the time, but it drifts away after a while, and it takes time to find it again.
Anyone else had a voice that came and went?/color]

[Fae]

I've heard that it takes time to retrain your voice, so keep at it and eventually it won't disappear. 

Personally I don't plan to change my voice, as it's neither too masculine, nor overly feminine.  If I tried to change my voice I think it would sound fake to me.

~Fae

[Nero]

I've heard that it takes time to retrain your voice, so keep at it and eventually it won't disappear. 

Personally I don't plan to change my voice, as it's neither too masculine, nor overly feminine.  If I tried to change my voice I think it would sound fake to me.

~Fae

If you retrain your voice properly, it's no more fake than the voice you started with... it's all different parts of the same voice... there is no trick. The voice you've been socialized with is just as manipulated, altered and 'fake' as the voice you would have if you worked on it to make it sound more female. And yes, it does take a long time to do (I've been seeing a speech pathologist for over a year, and that was starting with my andro voice, not my 'original' voice). Eventually, the voice you started with will sound completely bizarre to you (as it did to me when I saw a video of 'me' from 7 years ago). Eventually, the voice you've worked on will be the only voice you hear, but you have to work on it until any other voice is out of your head and your voicebox muscles and way of speaking know no other way to it. When you get there, it won't sound fake in the least, and it will sound like the voice coming from inside you, the voice that expresses who you really are.

ciao,
Gina M.

It that really possible? To have gone through mtf puberty and get your voice into a female pitch? Now, I'm not saying I don't believe you or anything, I haven't heard your voice. But it seems all the transwomen voices I've heard fall into one of two categories.
male range voice with female speech and female communication
or obvious falsetto

I prefer the male range with female speech personally. It's natural and unique. Sounds lovely.
So, is there really a way to change the pitch without falling into falsetto?

[Ms Bev]

I prefer the male range with female speech personally. It's natural and unique. Sounds lovely.
So, is there really a way to change the pitch without falling into falsetto?

That's the voice Beverly speaking with Michael's voice is, but the voice Beverly learned is not unnatural or falsetto.  It's a mid-lower range woman's voice.  I love it, and plan on working hard to get and keep it.

Bev

[Kate]

It's taken me a year of constant work to get to where I am. I haven't gotten anything other than ma'am on the phone for the past 9 months and that's without first telling them my name.

That's hopeful... although I'll admit I'm getting desperate and beginning to think it's as good as it's gonna get for me. Which isn't great...

My wife introduced me to a new neighbor last night, and we said a number of things that made it obvious we were married... at which point he became terribly confused, lol. He later told me that, "What I couldn't figure out was why this woman (me) was standing there talking to me in an obviously male voice... it made no sense."

My coworker today slipped and called me by my male name... and instantly apologized and corrected herself, explaining, "You know, it's the voice that throws me off..."

Sigh.

Hang in there Beverly. I CAN do a reasonable voice at times, but as you say... it comes and goes. Talking to a neighbor outside in 90 degree heat at 1:00am while holding in my hand my name change forms I'd just received... I'd lost it, lol. And at work I get lazy with it. First thing in the morning, it's pretty good. But it gets more and more raspy as the day goes by, and I eventually lose it.

I know what Nero is saying, and I've heard the falsetto's too. I'd probably rather sound male than fake, and yet it IS awkward to sound like an obvious male while calling yourself Kate, lol... maybe falsetto is better...

~Kate~

[Kat]

someone needs to modify one of those Darth Vader voice changers so it sounds like a  woman, and not need to wear the Darth Vader helmet. Unless you want to!

Luke... I am your mother!

[Rachael]

It that really possible? To have gone through mtf puberty and get your voice into a female pitch? Now, I'm not saying I don't believe you or anything, I haven't heard your voice. But it seems all the transwomen voices I've heard fall into one of two categories.
male range voice with female speech and female communication
or obvious falsetto

I prefer the male range with female speech personally. It's natural and unique. Sounds lovely.
So, is there really a way to change the pitch without falling into falsetto?

alright nero, talk to maud on here, and ask her, my voice is entirely natural female now, you would never havea clue that i was trans from my voice, infact, when people talk to me, it dispells any confusion to my gender, before hrt, wow, it was bad and MALE... ive done no voice training, or practice, its just slowly slipped into female speach patterns, range, inflections, and rhythmn, im as suprised as anyone, but it did change since hrt, phsycological, or medical...

[Melissa]

Now, I'm not saying I don't believe you or anything, I haven't heard your voice. But it seems all the transwomen voices I've heard fall into one of two categories.
male range voice with female speech and female communication
or obvious falsetto

Oh, is that so? Well, you've spoken to me on the phone a number of times, which category do I fall into?  On the phone before, you commented how female it sounded and how unusual that was.  But if ALL the transwomen voices you have heard fall into one of those 2 categories, which one would I be in?

[Rachael]

* Rachael takes nero's spade away from him.

R

[Keira]

Racheal, HRT has nothing to do with it, but if you had a good range in your male voice, you could easily just push the pitch up, but that's not enough to make a perfectly female voice (though it may be good enough if your other gender clues are fine).

If you've got a smallish jaw and are of small stature, you will have the correct resonance, otherwise, you will have to practice it; its not something people notice themselves, but others hear it. You have to record it.

That's why most TS voice sound nasal (which is OK if its not too accentuated), they slipped into a head voice without changing resonnance.

I've rarely heard a TS voice that doesn't have transient nasal overtones (episodic nasality), including mine (even though its now rare); its something you have to look for. 

[Rachael]

do i LOOK like i have a small jaw? lol
nope, not short neither. and im just saying what i have, its a very natural female voice, that if anything, confirms the visuals, rather than the other way around, ask anyone here who has spoken to me, its not readable.... its just female, not nasal, not falcetto, its female. its since i started hrt, and i have no other way to explain it, pls dont tell me how i sound.

R

[Nero]

It that really possible? To have gone through mtf puberty and get your voice into a female pitch? Now, I'm not saying I don't believe you or anything, I haven't heard your voice. But it seems all the transwomen voices I've heard fall into one of two categories.
male range voice with female speech and female communication
or obvious falsetto

I prefer the male range with female speech personally. It's natural and unique. Sounds lovely.
So, is there really a way to change the pitch without falling into falsetto?

In response to your question, I don't think your voice should ever be in falsetto. That's a no-no.

Nope, you know what happens when you ASSUME, Nero. It's entirely possible. I started off as a (ugh) high baritone voice and I was able to do it. I'm not saying it's possible for everyone, but with proper training and enough work it can be done. And I've heard voices that were absolutely female sounding voices, not the two categories you mentioned (which also exist). The types of voices you mention are from people who haven't really gone to a speech pathologist who knows what they're doing, who aren't putting enough effort into it and who give up too soon. It's taken me a year of constant work to get to where I am. I haven't gotten anything other than ma'am on the phone for the past 9 months and that's without first telling them my name. I'm not saying I'm totally there yet (nor that being called ma'am means your voice is 'there' yet), I still have things I'm working on, but my last post absolutely describes the reality of changing one's voice.

ciao,
Gina M.

Ok. I guess I assume too much based on what I've heard. Which I really shouldn't do because that's what cisgender folk do. They think they know one TS, they know them all.

There are actors who do a myriad of voices very well, so I guess it is possible to retrain one's voice.
I doubt it's achievable for everybody though. Just as some people are blessed with the gift of song and some aren't.
Still really like the male range voice with the female speech and communication style. It's really sexy.
Some pre-T ftms also do a fake voice that's pretty obvious, pushing their voice down low, so that it shows in their face what they're doing.

Thing is though - is the female voice something you constantly have to think about and keep during a conversation, or is it second nature?

[Rachael]

mine has been natural and nearly impossibly to change back since about april. i CAN go deepish, but not as deep as i could. and its hard to maintain the deeper voice, most of my deep atempts sound like a female doing a deep voice however >< like the f2ms nero mentioned ><

R

[gothique11]

Well, people who have seen/heard my blog know what I sound like. I'm more critical of my voice/looks than 99.9% of the people out there (I get days where I think people are deaf and blind, because I still get ma'med on days that I look or sound like a disaster, even on the phone.)

But, anyway, my point is that we are more critical of ourselves and flaws than anyone else is and we're going to notice things that other people won't notice and beat our selves up for it. So, we have to sit back a bit and realize that and let ourselves grow instead of beating ourselves in the head for not being perfect.

It's good to progress, and we should let yourselves progress... but if we beat our selves up, we won't progress as fast. The worst kind of encouragement is negative reinforcement.

[Keira]

Your right, unless I hear you, I cannot judge how you sound; and unless you run your voice through a spectrograf how can you know that you subjective assessment is absolutely right.

I was just dispelling the notion that HRT had anything to do with it.
That is IMPOSSIBLE. Its also physically impossible to have a female resonnance with a large vocal resonnance cavity (its physics (the harmonics are rebounding waves from the main pitch), check it out, not an opinion), so if you do have a female resonnance, you've got to have this now (and had it before), if not, you've got everything (pitch, pattern, etc) but that unless you worked on it (with tongue, mouth and larynx placement, its not something that comes instinctively).

I just wish people would actually read what others say before reacting.

IF you want to hear my voice, go into poetry forum, and listen to the poem I read on video.

[gothique11]

mine has been natural and nearly impossibly to change back since about april. i CAN go deepish, but not as deep as i could. and its hard to maintain the deeper voice, most of my deep atempts sound like a female doing a deep voice however >< like the f2ms nero mentioned ><

R

That's because you're used to using different vocal cords, and the other ones atrophy.

I can't do a male voice very well, and I never could. Believe me, when i was younger my family was sent to a speech pathologist and counceller to try to make me sound and be more male. It didn't work well. Later, after trying since I was six years old to make me a guy, I was sent on a church mission which included constant church-based councelling and drugging using there infamous "we can a cure gay, lesbian, bi, and trans people" program. I was on 32 pills a day and constantly put through the grinding program to make me male. At the end, my voice still didn't sound very male-ish, and at best, it sounded like a gay male voice (which didn't please them). The 32 pills I was given per day didn't help me believe in the church any better, help me be a man, or cure my "transexuality." The program, however, just gave me tons of wonderful psychological scars which left me in and out of hospitals for years, until I could actually heal enough to transition (physically and mentally).

So, yeah, basically, I think I should stop there before I hijack this thread with my own personal junk.

As for voice, even people I know have done voice training and a difficult time going a back to a male voice, because they never use it. The only people I know who can use both all the time are cross-dressers and drag queens, since they speak in both voices which keep all of the cords exercised.

[Rachael]

well im not being personally subjective, im going off what im told too, i quote 'its ->-bleeped-<-dar jammingly female' its simply a female voice
and apparnetly hrt doesnt reduce facial hair, although ive had significant reduction, which oh, is mentioned as a possibility for younger transitioners just out of puberty  (within 5 years). plus most hrt research is done on older transitoners (the more common group) so the full effects for young transitioners arnt fully comprehended.

lets not jump the gun here...

R

[Keira]

I don't think your reading what I'm saying.
Resonnance cannot change because its based on the BONES (size of neck and jaw) and CARTILAGE (pharinx position, this one changes quite early in puberty), things that go just ONE WAY. Even FTM will have an androgyne voice if they don't change their resonnance (again, other gender clues mean that may not be important to passing).

What your talking about is the vocal cords themselves, which may or may not change since changes in the soft tissue around them affects pitch (but probably not change it substantially or we would have heard that effect from other young TS before).

As for the beard disapeering, plenty of young TS with a fine or sparse beard get most of them to become vellus under HRT, its not an unknown effect at all. In most older TS, the beard's hair shaft is now too big to become small enough to become vellus, so you've got to get rid of it or endure a fine haired beard.

[Ms Bev]

I wanted to post an email I sent that goes into a little more detail on the Exceptional Voice Cd:

Yes, the CD from Exceptional voice dot com has been very helpful.  It takes you by the hand, and if you practice, practice, practice, you will see very real differences.  I've been working with the first CD for only two weeks or less, while driving back and forth to work.  My drive is 30 minutes, so I listen and practice an hour a day.  I don't have the second CD yet, or the electronic tuner, but I will when funds allow.
One thing I did differently than instructed was, after 2 weeks, started using higher notes than their 3A, going up the scale until I reached falsetto.  I backed down one note from the falsetto, which keeps my voice a very natural sounding female voice, not fakey.  I have a small voice box, and my 'adam's apple' is only apparent if you feel it (as a matter of fact, my doctor wondered if I had a trahceal shave.)

It took a lot of nerve using this voice in public, and I can only do it for very short interchanges, like with cashiers, fast food places, etc.  I only had the nerve after recording this new voice, and playing it back to myself.  What you hear in your head is very different than what you hear outside your head.
Anyway, before I started, my expectations were kind of low, but I thought it was worth a shot.  For an old girl of 56, I'm clocked female now 100% of the time, but that damned voice gives me away.  What a shame, for any of us.
What a surprize I had, though, after 2 weeks!  But you have to stick with it.   Nothing happens overnight, and I think it's going to take me months and months and months for a new voice I can depend on.  But what the heck....I thought I'd never have breasts either.  And I thought I'd never look female.  Wrong on both counts, so I'm expecting a lot in my voice change.

I think this is such an important part of my transition, I want to share it with anyone who wants to read.

Best of luck!

Bev

[Melissa]

As for the beard disapeering, plenty of young TS with a fine or sparse beard get most of them to become vellus under HRT, its not an unknown effect at all. In most older TS, the beard's hair shaft is now too big to become small enough to become vellus, so you've got to get rid of it or endure a fine haired beard.

Hmmm, that's quite interesting.  For the most part, my beard did not just go away by itself (I'm still removing bits of it, although it was "patchy" to begin with), but there are some areas that have quite a bit of vellus hair that I don't recall being there before.  I wonder if perhaps HRT actually did have *some* effect on it.