Non-Binary & Binary Members Similarities

[EchelonHunt]

EDIT: If there is a better subject title to use, I am open to suggestions

This thread is being created so we can highlight the similarities or ways non-binary and binary members can co-exist happily without tensions between one another, that we are similar to each other and we can begin to learn we really aren't so much different from each other as we think - we are only human after all!

If you like, you can also suggest how we can get to that place of acceptance in order to support your example of how we are similar now but there is a gap between us at the moment.

To clarify, I'm well aware of the differences between non-binary and binary so please refrain from bringing this into the thread as it will add very little to the topic and will only serve to divide the community further, instead of closer. Please leave those discussions and any personal grudges for another thread. Thank you!

Here are some examples I have thought of:

- Non-binary and MTF sharing make-up tips, helping each other out by giving suggestions on fashion and maybe even going shopping together, having fun and laughing together.

- Non-binary and MTF/FTM sharing their HRT and/or surgery experiences openly with one another, both of them accepting the other on the choices they have made. 

- Non-binary and MTF/FTM relating to one another's experiences and learning more about each other. Questioning is encouraged as how else will you be able to understand each other better?
The key is to not take the questions personally and that, hopefully, the person delivering the questions is coming from a heartfelt place, not a place of judgement. This goes for advice as well.

Is there any other situations you all can think of? Everyone is encouraged to join in! I am excited to see what everyone comes up with. Hopefully this thread can serve to bring us all closer than ever before!   

[Taka]

i have experienced female puberty.
it's really fun to not be able to tell mtf members how cis girls experience just the same pains when breasts start to grow.
i have never experienced male puberty.
but i have enough brothers to know even things that many who're far into ftm transition don't know about male society.

we're all humans, and none of us are particularly cissexual.
i think those are the biggest things we have in common.

[Mark3]

We are similar in name. From what I have understood "Transgender" is an umbrella term for any gender variance outside of CIS, which we all are.. I rather like the name Transgender, to me its unifying, plus most CIS call anyone displaying gender differences Trans, and that feels fine to me also, at least they are trying to figure it out in most cases..

We all are on a path that is taking us in directions away from the gender binaries male/female, we all just find our place somewhere along that path, but we're all neighbors, and family in a very real way..

We all realize that because of how we each feel deep inside, there can be great pain, heartache and misery involved with the gender we are born with, we all share in that at different times in our journeys, and our pain can unite us, because in most cases we are the only ones who truely know how that feels like, and are able to sympathize in a personal way..

We all are beautiful people who are born special, and regardless of the place we are on the gender path, or which of us have treatments or surgery's, or need none at all, we are still cut from the same cloth, made by the same God, and all shine together in our own unique way..

I know that this topic is in response to some reported unrest between forums discussed in an earlier topic.. But I just don't see any of that,  there is so much we have in common, and such a strong bond keeping us together..


Maybe if when we post on the board here, we can stop noticing which forum we're posting on, and just concentrate on helping, caring for, and loving each other as one big Transgender family, this will never be an issue again, and we will always keep close our similarities, and forget about any differences...

Hugs everybody.....

[justpat]

  The seeds of unity have been planted with open opportunity to grow.   Thank you.  Patty

[suzifrommd]

OK, I'm probably going to be smited and flamed, but here's my theory.

I think what's going on in our brains is exactly the same. That non-binary and binary both have an internally wired gender identity that is at odds with their physical sex.

The difference in how that internal identity feels to us. To some of us it feels like a male/female in a female/male body. To others, the feeling is more complicated. The gender roles we've taken on, the realities of our anatomy, and the expectations we've lived with mix with our brain wiring to produce any number of non-binary manifestations of being trangender - all the diverse species in our forest.

Both types of experience are equally real, equally valid. Neither of us are "less trans" or "more trans" than the other. They're just different ways being trans.

At least that's my theory.

[Taka]

and that's a really great theory, suzi. we should do research on it!

[Dread_Faery]

I believe that we're not all the same and neither should it matter. Not being the same =/= being less.

[mrs izzy]

OK, I'm probably going to be smited and flamed, but here's my theory.

I think what's going on in our brains is exactly the same. That non-binary and binary both have an internally wired gender identity that is at odds with their physical sex.

The difference in how that internal identity feels to us. To some of us it feels like a male/female in a female/male body. To others, the feeling is more complicated. The gender roles we've taken on, the realities of our anatomy, and the expectations we've lived with mix with our brain wiring to produce any number of non-binary manifestations of being trangender - all the diverse species in our forest.

Both types of experience are equally real, equally valid. Neither of us are "less trans" or "more trans" than the other. They're just different ways being trans.

At least that's my theory.

Great theory.
I find no matter where you are in the spectrum there are others who will hold judgment on others.

It's that human nature thing that we complain so much against but hold it so deeply in our own community.

I have been around the community since 99 and it was there back then.

What is the answer?

[Dread_Faery]

Tear down the kairarchy and all it's cistems of control.

[Jill F]

I like cheese.  Anyone else?

[mac1]

Similarities vs differences could be eliminated if we could only removed the barriers that serve to separate us.

Society has traditionally established a separationist binary (female-male) structure with: the clothes we wear; the sports in which we participate; the work (jobs) which we do; our separate public restrooms, changing rooms, locker rooms, etc; and in many other activities and facilities.

Some minor trends to break down some of the barriers have began. However, we will never experience full acceptance of each other until all of these unrealistic barriers are totally eliminated.

[EchelonHunt]

we're all humans, and none of us are particularly cissexual.
i think those are the biggest things we have in common.

Amen!

We all are beautiful people who are born special, and regardless of the place we are on the gender path, or which of us have treatments or surgery's, or need none at all, we are still cut from the same cloth, made by the same God, and all shine together in our own unique way..

Beautiful post, Mark3. And can I just say, I love your signature too?

OK, I'm probably going to be smited and flamed, but here's my theory.

Please do not worry about being smited or flamed. Just like everyone else here, you have a unique perspective and your post was evidence of such! Never be afraid to speak your thoughts 

Both types of experience are equally real, equally valid. Neither of us are "less trans" or "more trans" than the other. They're just different ways being trans.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I once made a quote on another website that, "There is no one way to be trans." because a lot of transgender individuals I encountered were insisting that there was only "one" way and that if you do not do it in the manner or order that they do it in, then you are not "trans enough" *puke*

Great theory though, Suzi! I think you're onto something there!

I believe that we're not all the same and neither should it matter. Not being the same =/= being less.

Oh, I certainly agree we are all not the same but we all do share the same brain in the sense that we are all human, just with different make-ups such as biological, genetic, environmental, sexual orientation, gender identity and so on. The topic is about the similarities between one another, not about being the same as the other but I have a hunch you might have been responding to Suzi? I didn't want to assume. You are certainly right though, not being the same as others shouldn't mean that we should be treated any less.

Just like cisgender individuals are not any less than transgender individuals.

Just like non-binary members aren't any more important than binary members.

We are all on the same equal ground. When we put our ego aside, the truth is nobody is inferior or superior than anyone else here.

We are all very complex creatures and unique in our own little ways. This would be wonderful to celebrate together as a community.

kairarchy

Kai-wha? I had to Google that one!

I find no matter where you are in the spectrum there are others who will hold judgment on others.

It's that human nature thing that we complain so much against but hold it so deeply in our own community.

I have been around the community since 99 and it was there back then.

What is the answer?

I agree that it is human nature and that's always going to be something that will be encountered again and again. What is normal to one is considered abnormal to another. We cannot control how people react to what is different and their judgement but what we can do is change how we react to it.

For example, I desire a body that is sexless, devoid of sexual characteristics of either sex to win the battle of my body dysphoria altogether. In this forum, from what I've observed, there is a vast majority who are working hard to achieve a body that matches their mind, those who have decided a binary transition only to realize they are non-binary, those who are content with their body without surgeries, along with those who are happy to be in-between binaries or neither altogether. I appear to be the only one who is happy with being neither binary but also would like to correct my body to reflect this - I am a minority within a minority and I do not mind. While I am making strides towards my goals in a different way to others, I am completely supportive of other's paths and dreams.   

I believe the answer is acceptance, respect, kindness, communication, patience and time. See, it takes months, even many, many years for parents to understand their children being transgender, to accept and support them. It makes sense that we should treat the members of our community in the same way. They are our family members and if they are struggling to understand, it should be met with compassion and understanding - after all, it may have taken us many years to get to the level of understanding of ourselves to begin with.

Then there will be people that will never be able to understand, even after many years have passed. My father is a one example, it's been six years since I came out as trans, four of those years I've been on testosterone and sadly, he still calls me my female name and female pronouns in public and at home. At this point, you cannot change someone but you can change how you react to them. In my instance, I have accepted the possibility that he will never accept me as a male. Whether he accepts me or not is not a matter that concerns me anymore. He is my father, I am his child, that is what matters. As long as we connect as human beings as we laugh over the silly things I did as a child that made him smile fondly, that is all that matters.

I hope we can adopt this attitude to members on the forum here. Continue to communicate with others, offering education if they ask for it, and if they do not understand or refuse to, simply accept it. To accept is not to admit defeat. People who cannot understand should never be condemned or treated as inferior. Shower them with love and support regardless. In the end, they are only human.

I like cheese.  Anyone else?

I love cheese - I also love them melted on some french fries. Yum, yum!  Okay, getting a bit off-topic now!

Similarities vs differences could be eliminated if we could only removed the barriers that serve to separate us.

Society has traditionally established a separationist binary (female-male) structure with: the clothes we wear; the sports in which we participate; the work (jobs) which we do; our separate public restrooms, changing rooms, locker rooms, etc; and in many other activities and facilities.

Some minor trends to break down some of the barriers have began. However, we will never experience full acceptance of each other until all of these unrealistic barriers are totally eliminated.

And that will take many years to happen. Society has become increasingly dependent on the binary, I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon. The rules surrounding the binary has been slowly bending, such as putting unisex bathrooms for transgender individuals in high-school/college and including unisex toilets elsewhere. Supposed LGBT-friendly clubs continue believe only straight, gay, lesbians exist, effectively excluding transgender and non-binary individuals (this is in my local area though, not a worldwide representation as far as I know). I feel that society and LGBTQ community both have a ways to go before the binary structures can be dismantled.

I disagree, I believe we can accept one another even in a society that is dominated by binary rules. People are slowly becoming more open and accepting of transgender individuals, even in a binary-dominated world, why should non-binary be the exception?

This thread is about how we can build a community closer by pointing out the similarities in our paths and how we can support one another. Crushing the binary system isn't exactly going to magically cause people to accept one another. I can see how and why the binary rules affect each and every one of us in a different way but I struggle to see how the binary system could the sole reason why people are unable to accept one another. I am sorry, I am really finding that difficult to believe.      

[Dread_Faery]

Oh, I certainly agree we are all not the same but we all do share the same brain in the sense that we are all human, just with different make-ups such as biological, genetic, environmental, sexual orientation, gender identity and so on. The topic is about the similarities between one another, not about being the same as the other but I have a hunch you might have been responding to Suzi? I didn't want to assume. You are certainly right though, not being the same as others shouldn't mean that we should be treated any less.

Just like cisgender individuals are not any less than transgender individuals.

Just like non-binary members aren't any more important than binary members.

We are all on the same equal ground. When we put our ego aside, the truth is nobody is inferior or superior than anyone else here.

We are all very complex creatures and unique in our own little ways. This would be wonderful to celebrate together as a community.

It was actually more of being wary on my part of the NB community being the ones that have to educate binary identified types about what it means to be non-binary. I'm definitely beginning to think that binary privilege exists, from my own experiences and from just watching and listening, and putting the onus on us to find reasons why we're the same as binary identified individuals feels like a derailing tactic. I think there's something more going on and I'm trying to get a good handle as to what it is exactly. I let you know once I've got something more concrete.

Kai-wha? I had to Google that one!

It's been my favourite word since I learnt it a few months ago

I believe the answer is acceptance, respect, kindness, communication, patience and time. See, it takes months, even many, many years for parents to understand their children being transgender, to accept and support them. It makes sense that we should treat the members of our community in the same way. They are our family members and if they are struggling to understand, it should be met with compassion and understanding - after all, it may have taken us many years to get to the level of understanding of ourselves to begin with.
 

Respecting each others differences is the most important thing, but I'm not sure that always happens

[Taka]

the one and only privilege i've seen that the binary trans people have... is a right to treatment in my country.
i don't have that right. because i'm non-binary.

but!
that doesn't mean it's my binary trans friends who cause this, nor their mentality. it's just the stupid government here who love to play nanny.

we still have similarities though. many binary people don't get the treatment they need either. in this same system.

out in society, i don't really know if the binary have any privilege over the non-binary.
we're all humans trying to get by. the non-binary who dares to be different, will often get respect, and even a little bit of envy from the binary who doesn't dare to be as different as they really are.

adding to the beautiful diversity of human society. that is something we all have in common. even with the cis.

[captains]

the one and only privilege i've seen that the binary trans people have... is a right to treatment in my country.
i don't have that right. because i'm non-binary.

but!
that doesn't mean it's my binary trans friends who cause this, nor their mentality. it's just the stupid government here who love to play nanny.

we still have similarities though. many binary people don't get the treatment they need either. in this same system.

out in society, i don't really know if the binary have any privilege over the non-binary.
we're all humans trying to get by. the non-binary who dares to be different, will often get respect, and even a little bit of envy from the binary who doesn't dare to be as different as they really are.

adding to the beautiful diversity of human society. that is something we all have in common. even with the cis.

I'm trying to think of a word other than 'privilege' to describe this issue, because I agree! I don't believe in lateral oppression; that is to say, I don't think that binary trans ppl can oppress non-binary trans ppl (and vice versa) when we are all occupying the same rung of 'not cis' and struggling because of it. I worry that talking about 'binary privilege' or 'non-binary privilege' shifts the criticism off of where it ought to be, the cis-centric system, and accidentally back onto trans folks just trying to get by.

It's important to me that nb specific troubles get discussed, and that we do recognize and validate the differences btwn the nb and binary experience. Nb ppl should be afforded the opportunity to speak up about the places in which the system fails us as nb people, rather than more broadly as trans people*, but I don't want to do that by throwing anyone under the bus, or giving transphobic people more ammunition b/c lord knows they'll take any chance.

It's so tricky.

(*And so should binary trans ppl, obvs!)

[VeronicaLynn]

Cheese has a lot of calories, so does cake, doesn't mean I don't like them, or cheesecake though I'd rather not think about them right now...

The biggest similarity is that we are all people whose mental gender does not exactly match the expectations of the one assigned to us at birth.

I'm bigender/genderfluid, I sometimes actually do feel basically cis-gender and sometimes completely transexual, though I'm increasingly feeling more in the middle, though that too feels uncomfortable at times...I feel like I'm on both sides on this...which is not unusual...

I'd like to see everyone just be able to be themselves, whatever that might be, and I think most Non-Binary & Binary Members actually feel the same way...

There may be those that think everyone here is exactly the same as what you might be, and that too might be a similarity, even if it is one that causes differences.

[Shantel]

OK, I'm probably going to be smited and flamed, but here's my theory.

I think what's going on in our brains is exactly the same. That non-binary and binary both have an internally wired gender identity that is at odds with their physical sex.

The difference in how that internal identity feels to us. To some of us it feels like a male/female in a female/male body. To others, the feeling is more complicated. The gender roles we've taken on, the realities of our anatomy, and the expectations we've lived with mix with our brain wiring to produce any number of non-binary manifestations of being trangender - all the diverse species in our forest.

Both types of experience are equally real, equally valid. Neither of us are "less trans" or "more trans" than the other. They're just different ways being trans.

At least that's my theory.

I agree completely, it's a very simplistic and I think accurate analysis. Before I ever heard of binary and non-binary I was clocked FtM or as a dyke by some MtF people at open trans support meetings and always thought it rather humorous. I had been asked by a few cis people, "What are you, male or female?" My pat answer was always either "I'm me!" or "Take your pick, whatever blows your hair back!" My sense of humor and a certain presence and self assuredness in public has always helped.

[ativan]

It was actually more of being wary on my part of the NB community being the ones that have to educate binary identified types about what it means to be non-binary. I'm definitely beginning to think that binary privilege exists, from my own experiences and from just watching and listening, and putting the onus on us to find reasons why we're the same as binary identified individuals feels like a derailing tactic.

I agree. I've become aware that it is as strong as ever. Defensive reasoning to protect a singular world view.
Binary privilege exists to such an extent that there are non-binaries who accept it in their own thinking.
It has existed for so long that it is considered the normal, there are even those who aren't able to recognize it, and make excuses in defense of it.
Even in some who consider themselves to not be binary, they still accept it as the normal, defending it as if it is.
So when the going gets tough, accept it and go to the beach and explain it to the wind that is there as well.
Ativan

[Asche]

Tear down the kairarchy and all it's cistems of control.

Kai-wha? I had to Google that one!

Do you mean kyriarchy?

When I try it, Google can't find "kairarchy" (which I've never heard of.)
It suggests Kyriarchy (which I have heard of.)

Also: is "cistems" supposed to mean something other than "systems"?

(Not intended as a spelling flame, I honestly don't know if you're trying to say "tear down the kyriarchy and its systems of control" or something different.)

[Dread_Faery]

Kai-wha? I had to Google that one!

Do you mean kyriarchy?

When I try it, Google can't find "kairarchy" (which I've never heard of.)
It suggests Kyriarchy (which I have heard of.)

Also: is "cistems" supposed to mean something other than "systems"?

(Not intended as a spelling flame, I honestly don't know if you're trying to say "tear down the kyriarchy and its systems of control" or something different.)

I can never spell it right, cistem is kind of shorthand used in queer activist spaces basically and basically just means cis sexist systems of oppression. It's also a bit of a pun, and we all know puns rock