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I identify as genderfluid, though I'm not so sure anymore...

Started by Jay27, September 27, 2014, 04:22:44 PM

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Jay27

As of late, I have been having some doubts and confusion regarding my gender identity. I am quite pleased with being genderfluid, however there are a few things that have been bothering me.
I do not like having breasts, for one. I have bought binders for when I present myself as male, but I wish my chest were naturally flat. I am seriously considering top surgery, but I do not know how I would pay for it anywhere in the near future.
I also hate having menstrual cramps. I do not want to have kids, and the mere idea of having another human inside of me freaks me out.
With all of that said, I still like wearing feminine clothing sometimes. Aside from clothing, though, I am not very in touch with the girl inside of me. I'm not sure what to do right now. I'll mull things over, and hopefully I can eventually find something that works for me.
I suppose my reason for writing this is to ask for advice on dealing with self-doubt and figuring things out :-\           
  •  

helen2010

Jay

Doubts are normal.  Fear, uncertainty, dreams and nightmares come with the trans* experience.  As the only person who can determine your identity is you, the best place to start is working with a good gender therapist.  They will help you ask and answer questions, they will help you identify your fears and dreams, they will help you - almost like a coach, but perhaps more like a sounding board, understand, accept and express yourself.  You may end up being binary, gender curious, gender fluid, gender queer, FTA or indeed anyone of the very many identities that folk experience.

Try not to over think this.   This really is a journey.  The insight and understanding comes from the journey itself.  One step at a time.  You can stop for a while and admire the view, you can retrace your steps, you can accelerate or indeed change direction.  All options are available to you.  A good gender therapist will help you set and navigate the course which feels best for you.

Safe travels

Aisla
  •  

Jess42

Oh Jay. It is definitely a dynamic thing. I am gender fluid, non binary or whatever else you may want to call it. The whole thing is it is very dynamic and moves one way or the other. Sometime multiple times in the same day. You sound so much like a mirror image of myself. I used to be about 50/50 and could go either way with pretty good results. Now the female is a lot stronger than anything else. I find myself staying more female than male. Now I am actually thinking of HRT and I am in my mid forties. The only advice that I can honestly give you without any regrets or worrying about giving bad advice is to follow your heart and wherever that leads you, then... But only you can decide that. Now and later. Sorry I couldn't be of more help with advice but even at 45 I am still trying to figure it out myself. And whoever don't like what I figure out, they can kiss it, Ya' know? Of course I was and have been extremely lucky to the point I can't really complain. But I still feel though. :(
  •  

findingreason

Though my marker on this forum may say female, I do identify as being genderqueer/fluid as well. I relate to you on the self-doubts. :/ They are rough. For a long time I tried to fit myself into binary boxes of gender, either female or male (when I was in denial mode). It wasn't until recently I really let myself become more fluid. Even then, it can be confusing from day to day, cause I never know what to expect, except that I just resolved to let myself go with the flow. The doubts may still be there, but when I stopped fighting the "meandering river", being gender, from meandering, things got a little bit better for me.

But like you, I've got the physical issues. I think lately that I really want to be more female-bodied, and have been heavily thinking about HRT to relieve some of my dysphoric issues. I don't necessarily "hate" what I have physically all the time (varies day to day), but being that I have a female side too; she wants to be able to live as such in a more harmonious fashion. 

A gender therapist is really good at helping sort all this out. Even a general therapist can be good, too. I am seeing one now, and she's helped me to straighten things out other life issues that were getting in the way of my ability to sort gender out. The rest has started to fall together gradually. I'm also in the process of controlling my symptoms of depression and anxiety too, and that's making things easier to cope with.

I've got faith in you though, you can sort through this. :) Even when the self-doubt gets bad, I want you to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you ever need to talk, I am available to PM as well!


  •  

Jay27

Quote from: Aisla on September 27, 2014, 08:47:41 PM
Jay

As the only person who can determine your identity is you, the best place to start is working with a good gender therapist.  They will help you ask and answer questions, they will help you identify your fears and dreams, they will help you - almost like a coach, but perhaps more like a sounding board, understand, accept and express yourself.
I will look into finding a gender therapist, although it may be difficult since I live away from everything. The nearest grocery store is a 10 minute drive away :-X I will take your advice and try not to stress over this too much. Sometimes you need to step back to get a better understanding of things, after all.
Quote from: Jess42 on September 27, 2014, 09:04:13 PM
The whole thing is it is very dynamic and moves one way or the other. Sometime multiple times in the same day. You sound so much like a mirror image of myself. I used to be about 50/50 and could go either way with pretty good results.
I am really glad that it's not just me. I feel like a lot of people have a general idea of their identity, but mine keeps fluctuating. One day I am perfectly content with my identity, the next I'm considering transitioning ftm. I still have plenty of time to figure things out, but I hate the thought process I will undoubtedly have until that point in time.
Quote from: findingreason on September 27, 2014, 10:51:39 PM
It wasn't until recently I really let myself become more fluid. Even then, it can be confusing from day to day, cause I never know what to expect, except that I just resolved to let myself go with the flow. The doubts may still be there, but when I stopped fighting the "meandering river", being gender, from meandering, things got a little bit better for me.
I am happy with the flexibility of gender fluidity, but I feel like it's not enough for me. I have one foot in each world, and it feels like I don't belong in either. I just wish I had a clearer grasp on my identity. It will come to me eventually, I hope.

Thank you all for your words of wisdom. I shall take them with me on this daunting journey.
  •  

Jess42

Quote from: Jay27 on September 27, 2014, 11:26:46 PM
I am really glad that it's not just me. I feel like a lot of people have a general idea of their identity, but mine keeps fluctuating. One day I am perfectly content with my identity, the next I'm considering transitioning ftm. I still have plenty of time to figure things out, but I hate the thought process I will undoubtedly have until that point in time.

No. It's not just you Jay. And yeah you have all the time in the world to figure it out. Until you stop breathing. Just be who you are and don't let anyone else define that. Only you can define who you are. If you are 80 and want to go HRT then that is you. But by then the T or E has stopped ruling in your body and we finish like we started, pretty much non gender specific. We come into this world non gender specific except for what is between our legs and we depart this world non gender specific except for what is between our legs and for some of us, not me thank gawd, MPB but the junk don't work anymore. Ha ha, like it really ever worked before. My tounge was the best part of me in a way. For girls and guys. :P If you try to make it if you are truly male then heart attacks and or strokes are a possibility. There is a reason why T levels and E levels wane when you are older.
  •  

Dread_Faery

Society has associated certain gender identities with certain physical realities; penis = man, vagina = woman. The truth is that desiring to have a body that fits one of those physical realities does not mean that you automatically have to identify with the normally associated gender.
  •  

Mark3

Quote from: Aisla on September 27, 2014, 08:47:41 PM
Try not to over think this.   This really is a journey.  The insight and understanding comes from the journey itself.  One step at a time.  You can stop for a while and admire the view, you can retrace your steps, you can accelerate or indeed change direction.  All options are available to you.  A good gender therapist will help you set and navigate the course which feels best for you.

Safe travels

Aisla

This I have learned also to be very true.
Its not a race, and you don't have to impress anyone.
Its a day to day walk down your own path. Some days you may feel very different than the day before, its not good or bad, its just part of your journey. Enjoy it, its an important part of your life, worthy of bringing you happiness. :)
"The soul is beyond male and female as it is beyond life and death."
  •  

BeemoX

I relate with you. I gave names to my three fluctuating gender identities, which has helped me. I still go by Jayne, socially, but I have William days and Elliot days, too. All three want to transition, but unlike you I'm baby-crazy, so it's not a realistic option right now. I struggled for months trying to be Jayne, all day everyday, because I wanted people to take me seriously. I thought I wasn't allowed to have doubts about my identity. It's getting easier now. For me it's been helpful talking to cis friends who'd like to understand (they don't, but they try), since I haven't been able to see my therapist for almost two months now. It's really just to have a sounding board, and sometimes the struggle I'm having isn't necessarily an identity issue. I'm still human, and I needn't try to disconnect myself from the rest of them.

Stay strong, you are supported!
  •  

Jay27

Quote from: Jess42 on September 28, 2014, 01:20:42 AM
No. It's not just you Jay. And yeah you have all the time in the world to figure it out. Until you stop breathing. Just be who you are and don't let anyone else define that. Only you can define who you are.
Thank you so much :-* Sometimes I catch myself worrying about what other people will think and say about me, but I shouldn't let that stop me.
Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 28, 2014, 06:33:38 AM
Society has associated certain gender identities with certain physical realities; penis = man, vagina = woman. The truth is that desiring to have a body that fits one of those physical realities does not mean that you automatically have to identify with the normally associated gender.
You are absolutely right. I find myself wanting certain male features, but that does not mean that I want to be male.
Quote from: BeemoX on September 28, 2014, 09:52:16 AM
I relate with you. I gave names to my three fluctuating gender identities, which has helped me. I still go by Jayne, socially, but I have William days and Elliot days, too. All three want to transition, but unlike you I'm baby-crazy, so it's not a realistic option right now. I struggled for months trying to be Jayne, all day everyday, because I wanted people to take me seriously. I thought I wasn't allowed to have doubts about my identity. It's getting easier now. For me it's been helpful talking to cis friends who'd like to understand (they don't, but they try), since I haven't been able to see my therapist for almost two months now. It's really just to have a sounding board, and sometimes the struggle I'm having isn't necessarily an identity issue. I'm still human, and I needn't try to disconnect myself from the rest of them.

Stay strong, you are supported!
This sounds like a good method! I believe that I have MPD (I have not been diagnosed professionally, but it does not take an expert to see that I have conflicting personalities), so I should try and figure out which thoughts and behaviors are always present no matter what. That way I know whether my thoughts are what I truly want or are only temporary.

Thank you all again, for your support! 
 
  •  

EchelonHunt

I do not usually open up about this but here I go!

I previously had MPD, my multiple personalities have integrated back into one being as myself. Funny note was almost all my personalities were very feminine men or very masculine girls in terms of personality but feminine in appearance if that makes sense...?

I am finding with the my gender identity, the "male" and "female" part of myself, they mirror my multiple personalities... I never thought of that until now. Jason identifies as a feminine male while Jay is a mix of masculine and feminine (andro?) girl, they are both very sexual and enjoy the thought of sex with both men and women... and then there is me, Jacey, I identify as genderless, presents in an androgynous manner and am asexual.

Jason and Jay most definitely do have their own thoughts, in regards to surgery and transitioning. At times, it is very different from talking to my multiple personalities... I suspect this is because I am one entire being, just I have three identities within me rather than one being fragmented into many personalities as a result of trauma.

I have wondered if I am trigender, someone who identifies between three different genders. There is also a term, multigender, someone who shifts between many genders and many combinations of genders like male or female, neutrois, a third gender or any other variety of genderqueer identities. I hope this has been helpful as much as it has been for me. I hadn't found trigender before tonight and it seems quite fitting at the moment. I thank you for mentioning your MPD, I would have never thought about this nagging question at the back of my mind until now...

*hugs* Hope all is well!
  •  

ativan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

I have been through the mill on this, several times diagnosed as such, but in the end, the diagnosis proved to be wrong.
It is easy to self diagnose when you start to name and think of gender identifiers you may have as identities separate and distinguishable.
Most often one identity cannot retain the memories of the others very well if at all, if it is true DID.
It's the most distinguishing characteristic and most telling of the condition itself.
PTSD has some roots in it as does Borderline Personality Disorder, another misunderstood disorder.
It is wise to look into information is these diagnoses as well as the disorders themselves.
DID is usually a long term lifetime disorder, it rarely responds to treatment and takes a lifetime for it to self correct.
Gender identities are not separate identities, they are accumulations of identifiers that may be lumped together as almost separate identities.
Most often I refer to these identities that must be portrayed as such to satisfy the 'binary privilege' as merely reflections as they are not a part of the so called genders of male or female, but can be loosely described in those terms to satisfy the status quo that cisiety requires to be considered as normal.
To look at them as an identities can in a lot of ways be useful, but if it is leading to ideas of multiple personalities, then you have taken that idea to far.
In a 'universe' of possible identifiers of gender, the concept of male and female are simply a set of rules that tell you what identifiers you must have.
To be non-binary is also to be able to not use those rules and to simply have and use the identifiers you do have.
Trying to break them down into terms of male and female is the only way to satisfy the cis 'binary privilege' that exists as a concept that most people consider to be more than a concept of gender but the only way to distinguish it.
When you do that yourself and think in those terms, you, in a sense have bought that concept as true as well.
There are an endless number of possibilities, male and female are just two of the stars you could be in this 'universe' of gender identifiers.
To be able to identify which ones you have as a reflection of gender describes a galaxy of gender vs a couple of stars or small star clusters.
You can be your own gender once you drop the idea that you must also have parts of the male/female gender requirements.
The ability to do this is the self discovery of oneself as non-binary (not being a part of the binary).
It is a journey and it is always about the journey, as the destination could last until it is the end of all of your journey through life..
You are not required to have a destination as is described in the male/female binary concept that is the core of the cis 'binary privilege'.
Gender is a concept, the one most widely accepted is the cis binary version and has evolved into a rigid set of rules to enforce that concept.
Life isn't required to follow those rules, there are no gender police, no gender prisons.
Be yourself, not a rigid concept of gender, you can be your own gender, if you wish to use that concept of self.
It's true we have to live and are sometimes forced to abide by some of the societal parts of that binary concept.
But there is no requirement that you have to tell them, prove to them, or even follow those conceptual rules.
You are non-binary, you decide and discover your own identity, there are no rules you are required to follow.
It's a journey of self discovery of identifiers that is yours to have and to keep.
You can be yourself and ignore those cisietal rules as much as you want.
If you are non-binary, then there are no rules.
Ativan
  •  

helen2010

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 28, 2014, 12:54:48 PM

You can be your own gender once you drop the idea that you must also have parts of the male/female gender requirements.
The ability to do this is the self discovery of oneself as non-binary (not being a part of the binary).
It is a journey and it is always about the journey, as the destination could last until it is the end of all of your journey through life..
You are not required to have a destination as is described in the male/female binary concept that is the core of the cis 'binary privilege'.
Gender is a concept, the one most widely accepted is the cis binary version and has evolved into a rigid set of rules to enforce that concept.
Life isn't required to follow those rules, there are no gender police, no gender prisons.
Be yourself, not a rigid concept of gender, you can be your own gender, if you wish to use that concept of self.
It's true we have to live and are sometimes forced to abide by some of the societal parts of that binary concept.
But there is no requirement that you have to tell them, prove to them, or even follow those conceptual rules.
You are non-binary, you decide and discover your own identity, there are no rules you are required to follow.
It's a journey of self discovery of identifiers that is yours to have and to keep.
You can be yourself and ignore those cisietal rules as much as you want.
If you are non-binary, then there are no rules.


Ativan
This is one of the most powerful, positive and affirming descriptions of what it means to be non binary that I have read.  Thank you.
Aisla
  •  

Jay27

Quote from: EchelonHunt on September 28, 2014, 11:06:10 AM
At times, it is very different from talking to my multiple personalities... I suspect this is because I am one entire being, just I have three identities within me rather than one being fragmented into many personalities as a result of trauma.

I have wondered if I am trigender, someone who identifies between three different genders. There is also a term, multigender, someone who shifts between many genders and many combinations of genders like male or female, neutrois, a third gender or any other variety of genderqueer identities. I hope this has been helpful as much as it has been for me. I hadn't found trigender before tonight and it seems quite fitting at the moment. I thank you for mentioning your MPD, I would have never thought about this nagging question at the back of my mind until now...

*hugs* Hope all is well!
I hadn't thought of being trigendered or multigendered until now. It is definitely something I should think on! Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts on all of this *hugs*
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 28, 2014, 12:54:48 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

I have been through the mill on this, several times diagnosed as such, but in the end, the diagnosis proved to be wrong.
It is easy to self diagnose when you start to name and think of gender identifiers you may have as identities separate and distinguishable.
Most often one identity cannot retain the memories of the others very well if at all, if it is true DID.
It's the most distinguishing characteristic and most telling of the condition itself.
PTSD has some roots in it as does Borderline Personality Disorder, another misunderstood disorder.
It is wise to look into information is these diagnoses as well as the disorders themselves.
DID is usually a long term lifetime disorder, it rarely responds to treatment and takes a lifetime for it to self correct.
Gender identities are not separate identities, they are accumulations of identifiers that may be lumped together as almost separate identities.
Most often I refer to these identities that must be portrayed as such to satisfy the 'binary privilege' as merely reflections as they are not a part of the so called genders of male or female, but can be loosely described in those terms to satisfy the status quo that cisiety requires to be considered as normal.
To look at them as an identities can in a lot of ways be useful, but if it is leading to ideas of multiple personalities, then you have taken that idea to far.
In a 'universe' of possible identifiers of gender, the concept of male and female are simply a set of rules that tell you what identifiers you must have.
To be non-binary is also to be able to not use those rules and to simply have and use the identifiers you do have.
Trying to break them down into terms of male and female is the only way to satisfy the cis 'binary privilege' that exists as a concept that most people consider to be more than a concept of gender but the only way to distinguish it.
When you do that yourself and think in those terms, you, in a sense have bought that concept as true as well.
There are an endless number of possibilities, male and female are just two of the stars you could be in this 'universe' of gender identifiers.
To be able to identify which ones you have as a reflection of gender describes a galaxy of gender vs a couple of stars or small star clusters.
You can be your own gender once you drop the idea that you must also have parts of the male/female gender requirements.
The ability to do this is the self discovery of oneself as non-binary (not being a part of the binary).
It is a journey and it is always about the journey, as the destination could last until it is the end of all of your journey through life..
You are not required to have a destination as is described in the male/female binary concept that is the core of the cis 'binary privilege'.
Gender is a concept, the one most widely accepted is the cis binary version and has evolved into a rigid set of rules to enforce that concept.
Life isn't required to follow those rules, there are no gender police, no gender prisons.
Be yourself, not a rigid concept of gender, you can be your own gender, if you wish to use that concept of self.
It's true we have to live and are sometimes forced to abide by some of the societal parts of that binary concept.
But there is no requirement that you have to tell them, prove to them, or even follow those conceptual rules.
You are non-binary, you decide and discover your own identity, there are no rules you are required to follow.
It's a journey of self discovery of identifiers that is yours to have and to keep.
You can be yourself and ignore those cisietal rules as much as you want.
If you are non-binary, then there are no rules.
Ativan

Wow, you have thoroughly impressed me with this message (gold stars for you!). You managed to take such complex subjects and transform them into words, which is quite a challenge! I really like your views on being non-binary. Your words have made quite an impact on me and given me much to think about, and it is greatly appreciated. Thank you!
  •  

✰Fairy~Wishes✰

I identify as genderqueer. And I identify as a transwoman. I think you can be both.

For a while.. I didn't know I was a transwoman. I thought since I didn't want to have breasts or curves I didn't want to be a woman. That I was more of an androgyne.
But I realized that it was my identity and how I wanted to be that mattered. And even though I didn't want breasts, I wanted to be feminine and that I felt like a woman.

I don't think one body part matters that much. You can be genderfluid or any gender even if you don't want breasts or curves. You can be a woman even if you don't have a reproductive organs that people call "female reproductive organs".
And just like you can identify and be a woman even though you don't have a vagina, and don't want to have one. You can be a woman without breasts, too. Neither breasts or a vagina or wanting them makes someone a woman.

I would love to have a vagina. But I would be very uncomfortable if I had breasts. But I still think I'm a woman.
Look up in the sky, it makes you feel so high!
  •