consolidated B. Jenner thread.

[DragonBeer]

Mom and I are finally going out tomorrow, which is the first time since I started taking T.
I hope she's not gonna out me to people when shopping for clothes...

[Wynternight]

Ouch. People don't need our approval to become part of this community. The community won't lose anything, we gain a new voice. Saying that any transgender person damages the community is awful and exclusionary.

Hugs, Devlyn

Nobody is sanctified or above reproach simply because they're trans. A media circus in a time when some trans people are getting mainstream recognition and critical praise doesn't benefit us, not when  it's places like TMZ and trash tabloids driving the narrative.

[Myarkstir]

Everyone with gender based differences is welcome in our community. And as a reminder here is a post Susan just made

9 If you disagree with transgender individuals, or activities which cross gender boundaries take your arguments to a more appropriate web site. The same applies for our friends in the Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual  communities.

[Wynternight]

I think we're all getting ahead of ourselves here anyway since this is all speculative.

[katiej]

Ouch. People don't need our approval to become part of this community. The community won't lose anything, we gain a new voice. Saying that any transgender person damages the community is awful and exclusionary.

You misunderstand me. 

No one is suggesting exclusion of any kind.  But we absolutely do have a stake in this as the transgender community.  Bruce Jenner earned his fame as an athlete on the world's biggest stage.  The Kardashians "earned" their fame with sex tapes, sensationalism, and a tv show that appeals to the lowest common denominator. 

I'm hoping that if there is indeed a public coming out, that it be done in a way that portrays us as normal people, rather than feeding into the freak show stereotype that each of us has to fight against.  Whether we like it or not, society's impression of us is influenced by well known people who come out as transgender.

We've received very positive reactions recently with TV shows like Transparent, Hit & Miss, and Orange is the New Black.  And we have positive role models like Andreja Pejic, Lana Wachowski, and Chaz Bono now in the public eye.  So now that we're starting to make real progress with how we're treated by the media, it would be a shame to have a setback with a Kardashian style reality series reminiscent of Jerry Springer sensationalism.

Again, no one is suggesting that we would exclude anyone.  She would be arguably the most famous person to transition publicly, and it would be awesome for people to see her for who she is, not for who some TV producer thinks would generate the highest ratings (i.e. make them the most money).

[Dahlia]

Didn't Andreja peijic kind of dodge the questions about her gender identity before fully coming out?

Well, Andreja was feminine looking/acting/moving anyway.
She's NEVER claimed to be a (super)man, she's not a bio father to several children and she's wasn't/isn't into women (only)
Her transition was/is something personal and no reason to explain. It was obvious from the start of her career; almost a natural woman.
And the general public doesn't fuss about it. Silence even.

Bruce on the other hand has something to explain after behaving and claiming to be a (super)man and being a bio father of several children. And being into women only.

But Bruce's slow transition over several years was/is something very sensible to do....no one can ever understand why a straight, masculine man transitions into a MTF.

No one, except for the MTF community, where most MTF used to be straight (hyper)masculine men.

[Devlyn]

You misunderstand me. 

No one is suggesting exclusion of any kind.  But we absolutely do have a stake in this as the transgender community.  Bruce Jenner earned his fame as an athlete on the world's biggest stage.  The Kardashians "earned" their fame with sex tapes, sensationalism, and a tv show that appeals to the lowest common denominator. 

I'm hoping that if there is indeed a public coming out, that it be done in a way that portrays us as normal people, rather than feeding into the freak show stereotype that each of us has to fight against.  Whether we like it or not, society's impression of us is influenced by well known people who come out as transgender.

We've received very positive reactions recently with TV shows like Transparent, Hit & Miss, and Orange is the New Black.  And we have positive role models like Andreja Pejic, Lana Wachowski, and Chaz Bono now in the public eye.  So now that we're starting to make real progress with how we're treated by the media, it would be a shame to have a setback with a Kardashian style reality series reminiscent of Jerry Springer sensationalism.

Again, no one is suggesting that we would exclude anyone.  She would be arguably the most famous person to transition publicly, and it would be awesome for people to see her for who she is, not for who some TV producer thinks would generate the highest ratings (i.e. make them the most money).

I don't own a TV. I can't relate to what you're saying about Kardashians or reality shows at all.  I don't think what kind of work someone does has any bearing on this at all. This is about a person who is (we assume) transitioning or acknowledging that they are transgender. Just a person. That's what we should focus on. The only stake we have in this is welcoming another soul to our fold.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Myarkstir]

Bruce on the other hand has something to explain after behaving and claiming to be a (super)man and being a bio father of several children. And being into women only.

I strongly recommand rereading the tos to everyone. More importantly section 10. The person here owes the transgender community NOTHING and further violations of tos 10 will not be tolerated.

10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:
Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term
Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others
Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive whatever the provocation.

[Dee Marshall]

This post is NOT about Bruce Jenner. I want to make that clear, but it is related. At the supermarket yesterday there was the usual array of tabloid and gossip magazines. It was interesting to me that even if I couldn't read English I would have known which ones are sympathetic just from the pictures of zir they chose to publish.

I would be unsurprised that there are 200 million people in America and billions world wide who don't care that I'm transitioning. Many more care about Bruce Jenner, whether zie is or not. It must be hellish to deal with.

Transitioning or not, my sympathies, Bruce Jenner, and now I'll leave you in peace.

[ImagineKate]

I strongly recommand rereading the tos to everyone. More importantly section 10. The person here owes the transgender community NOTHING and further violations of tos 10 will not be tolerated.

10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:
Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term
Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others
Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive whatever the provocation.

To be fair though, (and I'm not disputing your decision here) I think the post was in context of he/she/zie is dropping hints it's almost as if an explanation is forthcoming and expected, not that anyone is demanding an explanation from Jenner.

[ImagineKate]

I always thought if we weren't sure,  it was proper etiquette (here) to use gender neutral terms? I used she earlier, because the presentation looks feminine to me. I think it's more appropriate than using "he" in this instance.  Thoughts?

Hugs, Devlyn

If one insists that one isn't transitioning, my inclination would be to respect one's wishes.

[Devlyn]

If one insists that one isn't transitioning, my inclination would be to respect one's wishes.

Agreed, and not to make it a battle of words, but not every transgender person transitions.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Myarkstir]

This thread has ran its course
Locked.

[Myarkstir]

All B. Jenner threads to be merged here

[suzifrommd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lol1puA78hE&feature=share

[translora]

I just read about the car accident involving Bruce Jenner earlier today. He rear-ended another car, which pushed it into oncoming traffic, which resulted in another collision, which killed the driver of the car he hit.

http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/07/bruce-jenner-fatal-car-accident-pacific-coast-highway-malibu-photo-dead/

I post the link not for the article but for the comments. I made the mistake of reading them, and don't recommend that. It is essentially a very long expression of hate and ridicule, born largely but not entirely of ignorance, directed at the trans community. In other words, if anyone ever wonders why it's difficult to come out as trans, there's the reason on full display.

One comment section on one web site is not the whole world, I know. But it made me want to cry, because it feels like a potentially wonderful moment for our community has been snatched away.

Lora

[Sammy]

(...)

[sonson]

A human being accidentally ends the life of another human being, and then random people feel the need to make penis jokes about it on the internet.

thats a sad reality we live in. and the aggressive lack of privacy for bruce is just sickening.

to be honest though, those comments dont even bother me that much. transphobia is just a result of a lot of ignorance, and i think in like 20 years from now we're gonna notice a huge decrease in transphobia overall. mass media loves to always be pushing the envelope. just think about the way gay people have been portrayed on tv over the past 3 decades. it used to be shocking to include a gay character, now its pretty normal. transgender characters on the other hand are still very shocking, so mass media is starting to shift its focus a little. slowly we are seeing more transgender characters on tv, which means more trans awareness, which means less ignorance. and, thanks to the progress that homosexuality has already made, acceptance of others is kinda trendy now among young people. as these younger generations get older, transsexualism will become much less shocking to anyone.

[Sammy]

The local media news reported that Bruce did die in that accident as well.... So is there official report as to what did happen?

[spooky]

The local media news reported that Bruce did die in that accident as well.... So is there official report as to what did happen?

You can clearly see Bruce standing at the scene in half of the photos, so it seems unlikely that they later died.

I went ahead and looked at the comment section and was actually pretty surprised by how *little* trans hate I saw there. Honestly most of the hate there in general was directed at all women, not just trans women.  Puts things in perspective a little bit.