Stealth members, sticking up for trans issues

[Joanna Dark]

I think you're in a hard situation but it wouldn't jeopardize your stealth by saying something. I imagine being stealth for 15 years has it's pitfalls. Obviously, it's awesome but I can see your dillema. Most of my close friends know I'm IS but no one ever thinks I'm MAAB and if, or when, I'm in a similar situation, I could see myself saying nothing. But I say nothing to all kinds of comments so I'm just a wuss in general.

I would just keep doing what you're doing and if the situation arrises where you could say something and have it MATTER (ie get thru to him), do it. If not, I don't think you should fault yourself. You can be silent and proud. I am.

Now that I think of it, I was in a similar situation. My BF's friend said something about prostitutes where he lives and then said "ya gott be careful cause some of them be ->-bleeped-<-s...." or something I didn't say a word. He expected me to laugh with him but my BF and I just knda grinned. So yeah. I didn't know what to do. I pass well and it prob wouldn't have hurt that, but there's that little voice..."just be quiet..."

I wish I could say something but it's just not who I am. I'm pretty demure in general so it's tough...

[Adam (birkin)]

I just tell people I have close friends who are transgender, and I've seen what they go through, so I know X, Y, and Z. Or I could say that I saw a YouTube video on the topic, I always refer people to Laverne Cox because she is one of the few positive representations we have. There are some resources out there I'd never show another person because they'd get the totally wrong idea.

[Lady_Oracle]

If you've allowed them to believe you're a woman, you haven't lied. You ARE a woman.

If I don't tell people that I had some other medical condition, would I be lying? No, because no has a right to my history until I'm ready to share it with them.

Why should being trans be any different?

My thoughts exactly

[LizMarie]

Nicole, this is your life and you need to do what makes you comfortable.

If I were in your situation, I would likely work to correct this person but not go so far as to out myself.

Due to my own situation, I am not and likely never can be stealth (age, adult children, grandchildren, etc.) though I also do not "shout it from the rooftops" and thus far I am accepted as a woman wherever I go. I will tell someone if I feel that is beneficial and proper for me to do and so far that boils down to close friends. If I were to get into a romantic relationship, I would ensure this is disclosed at some point before intimacy became an issue.

But because of a transphobic acquaintance? I think I'd just occasionally remind them that they are being homophobic and/or transphobic.

I might even try to embarrass them and ask if they have a personal fetish about "chicks with dicks" since they mention it so often and if it gets them off? That might frighten him into realizing how he's sounding and at least quiet him down. I doubt he's going to change his personal perspective short of some personal epiphany. All that you can do is plant seeds of doubt, so no, if I were you I would not risk my stealth status just for one transphobic jerk.

[Shantel]

Ok, if I was to start over today, everybody would know and I would scream it loud & proud.
However I came out when I was a teenager, at a time when trans people were freaks because of shows like Jerry Springer & Rikki Lake, so when I came out, after years of bullying, after being bashed by boys at my school for being a "sissy" a word that to this day tears me up when I hear it, my mother packed us up, we moved back to her home state and we started a life where I was born female, always lived as female and my new friends only knew me as female.
The ones who know, my family and 2 of my very best & closest friends know for many reasons, one held my hand as I woke after SRS.

The only regret I have is that I've not told my unbelievable amazing group of friends and that I've lied to them all this time.
I also know that all wouldn't think twice if I told them that I was trans, but I would lose friends for lying to them all this time.

So my stealthiness is not because I'm hiding that I'm trans, it's because I don't want the people in my life that I love to think I've lied to them for 15 years

Getting back to you and your concerns Nicole, under the circumstances you are one of the few women living stealth that should never acknowledge your past to anyone, there would be no need to ever, and it would only open your life up to unneeded pain, criticism and loss of a few friends. The ongoing undercurrent of speculation within the group of friends that remained would be awful and something you needn't endure. Moreover you needn't become defensive of people in the GLBTI world other than to mention that it is in poor taste for anyone to make unseemly remarks and comments about people who are different. Your make friend is either a fetishist or is on a fishing expedition at your expense, if I was in your stead I would avoid him.
Good luck sweetie, you deserve your privacy and to have life devoid of any unwanted BS.

[gabimoneratt]

Guys,  you have to be blind to think that no trans has helped you on your journey... You were only able to change your name because some trans people fought for it, way back. You were only able to have a good endocrinologist prescribing you hormones because someone made tansexuals visible to the world and to doctors... If you came in today as a guy to an endocrinologist,  no endocrinologist would prescribe you hormones,  when would someone give a man the wrong hormones?? They'd treat you for some mental disease... Surgeons... No reputable Surgeons would give you a boob job! It'd be unethical. SRS we wouldn't even know what that is... Thanks to the older trans we now have SRS, and good SRS, because back when it started it was experimental, and it's thanks to many of us getting them done that Surgeons are able to specialize on it and give us even better results. If society somewhat accepts us today, if we have any laws in our favor, if we are accepted at work as trans, if some companies pay for our surgeries themselves, this is only because of the trans people who made us visible and who fought for our rights... And if you, I, many of us are stealth, it is only because of those women.
Be stealth as much as you want,  I also am. But don't be ungrateful. Realize we're only here thanks to the activists, the people who put themselves in danger, got killed even. The people who fought hard so we could have an "easy", safe stealth life today.

As this was not directed to Nicole, let's go back to the original topic:
I also live stealth and It also bugs me when people say something transphobic and I try to play the intellectual girl, the one who tries to understand everything. In your case, though, I'd tell him to quit being a douchebag... If you have gay friends it makes it look more OK for you to defend LGBT people. Tell him that it makes you uncomfortable being around someone who keeps throwing hate... Tell him it's weird that he cares/talks so much about ->-bleeped-<-s, "maybe you're actually into them" and laugh it off, it'll probably make him stop :p

[Shantel]

Nicole is in a unique spot and should not ever compromise herself. I do agree through that there are those of us who are never far from where we first got in this bed that we can't and should speak up as transdgenered people in defense of others and ourselves always.

[Tessa James]

Honestly there are sadly too many opportunities in my life to stick up for Trans people or, for that matter, any marginalized group of people.  I regret when I did not have the fortitude or energy to address them.  Each journey is unique but we are all called to address injustice especially when we have the means to make a difference.

I appreciate your awareness and that you care enough to bring the issue up

[GnomeKid]

I have no concern with being out in most situations (where its not dangerous), so my perspective on it would be slightly skewed from one who is attempted to stay stealth.  If pushed I'd just admit my trans-status and go from there.  It really wouldn't phase me or ruin my day at all if someone discovered I was trans unless it greatly effected my employment or housing.  That being said I'm unintentionally stealth to most people in my life.

Typically I'll try to lightly steer them towards acceptance by making a more open-minded trans statement back to them.  Something like "well, I don't see anything wrong with that"  or  "they're just trying to live their lives man... why you gotta be hating on them?"  Sometimes both. 

[Wendywishes]

This is such a tough situation...

I absolutely agree that the OP has no obligation to potentially put herself in a position to reveal her personal history.  If she has concerns that pushing the issue might reveal her as a "trans woman" and she is (rightfully) worried about the common perceptions (and misperceptions) that still exist regarding trans people, then I completely support that decision.  If it is because she feels she will be perceived as a liar for the past 15 years, I fully support that, too.

I understand nobody was actually telling her to out herself for the sake of responding to one ignorant bigot, but the implication was that if she didn't do something, then she was somehow "ungrateful" or failing to do her "duty" as a trans person.  I have to say, there are a lot of other ways she can be (and I am sure she is) an activist for trans issues and contribute to the "cause" without having to risk outing herself.  "Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor," as Shakespeare would say.

As for her actual question on how to deal with the situation while minimizing (or eliminating) the risks of discovery, there were some good ideas...mostly related to his potential proclivity for trans women or ways to embarrass him into being quiet.  However, that is not actually educating him or trying to help him understand how hateful, hurtful and bigoted his thinking is.  Regardless of the situation, this is a very difficult thing to do, and is often easier said than done.  Someone mentioned referring him to a person like Laverne Cox, but I don't think I completely agree with that (which might be a question for another forum...).  Are there any other constructive ideas on how to help people change their perceptions of trans persons (short of being a good example yourself)? 



 

[Shantel]

As this was not directed to Nicole, let's go back to the original topic:
I also live stealth and It also bugs me when people say something transphobic and I try to play the intellectual girl, the one who tries to understand everything. In your case, though, I'd tell him to quit being a douchebag... If you have gay friends it makes it look more OK for you to defend LGBT people. Tell him that it makes you uncomfortable being around someone who keeps throwing hate... Tell him it's weird that he cares/talks so much about ->-bleeped-<-s, "maybe you're actually into them" and laugh it off, it'll probably make him stop :p

You have a good point Gabi and invariably that is usually the case when they continue on about something like that.

[gabimoneratt]

I understand nobody was actually telling her to out herself for the sake of responding to one ignorant bigot, but the implication was that if she didn't do something, then she was somehow "ungrateful" or failing to do her "duty" as a trans person.

Wait, before this gets out of context I never said Nicole is ungrateful, cuz I truly don't think she is... I just read some posts of people saying they owe nothing to the community and that they have gotten through their transition without the community's help. Sure, might not have been direct help, but everything I said is still true. And it all bugged me because it's like ignoring everything that other trans women did to us and saying that they have done everything themselves. The only reason we are able to be stealth is thanks to the other trans women who made our issues visible and fought for our rights. That's all. Nicole actually wanted to stand up somehow to trans people, and as I said, this was not intended to her. That's all

[Wendywishes]

Wait, before this gets out of context I never said Nicole is ungrateful, cuz I truly don't think she is... I just read some posts of people saying they owe nothing to the community and that they have gotten through their transition without the community's help. Sure, might not have been direct help, but everything I said is still true. And it all bugged me because it's like ignoring everything that other trans women did to us and saying that they have done everything themselves. The only reason we are able to be stealth is thanks to the other trans women who made our issues visible and fought for our rights. That's all. Nicole actually wanted to stand up somehow to trans people, and as I said, this was not intended to her. That's all

I apologize gabimoneratt...I did not intend to target you!  The sentiment was brought up in a broader context than just the OP's issue, and I brought it all together in my response.  I think I just got caught up in the heat of the debate over the obligation to act versus the right to abstain.  I do agree with you 100% that the only reason we are where we are today, whether it be trans rights or landing a spacecraft on a comet, is because we are "standing on the shoulders of giants."  Thank you for making that point!       

[Dread_Faery]

I'm going to say it bluntly. feel free to smite me.
I apologize in advance for the offense I will cause by my observation and interpretation of truth.
it's people who have no stealth who are all for speaking up. I am not going to exclude anyone or divide the trans star community here,  but really the original topic was addressed to people in stealth .

would that make every response by non stealth persons moot?

Maybe a similar analogy would be attending a group support for say, icythiosis sufferers (I have this ) but having the discussion hijacked by a (group of ) non icythiosis sufferer(s) who is(are) frequently plagued by migraines.

I find your assumption that the only reason people would want to stick up for trans issues and individuals is that the struggle to be perceived as female. I know plenty of cis women who are vocal about trans issues, so your petty minded reasoning is just that. Petty.

There's this little thing called empathy, you may have heard of it.

[Susan522]

I am in fear of commenting further so I will reiterate my original response.

[Nicole]

I find your assumption that the only reason people would want to stick up for trans issues and individuals is that the struggle to be perceived as female. I know plenty of cis women who are vocal about trans issues, so your petty minded reasoning is just that. Petty.

There's this little thing called empathy, you may have heard of it.

Other than this forum, Facebook and one half hour at a trans group which sent me home in tears (one of the reasons I don't have much to do with the community), Ive had nothing to do with trans issues & causes.
I'm sorry for that, I have been stealth since the day I went full time, most of my closest friends, who I have known for almost 20 years haven't got a clue.
These days I do what I can, but its not just trans causes.
I stand up for what I believe is right, if someone said a sexist comment around me they're in for a fight, a trans comment, they're in for a fight, a racist comment, they're in for a fight.
One of the reasons I believe I've been stealth for all these years is because of what I've done, I don't go out of my way to meet other transpeople, I feel bad about that, but I've often thought one of the easiest ways to get clocked is by being around other trans people.

The topic I started here was how do you deal with trans issues when stealth.
I've chatted to my best friend, one of the very few people in my life that knows my whole history and even she thinks that sticking up too much for trans issues can lead to questions.
When I came out, I was in high school, I was young and like so many my age will tell you, our exposure to trans people were on trash TV talk shows.
These days there are so many role models, who are women first and trans second, these people are educating the public and that can only lead to good.

Yes I feel bad for those who aren't stealth and it does seem on these pages at the very least that its them sticking up for the issue, but the way people attack those who are stealth is just as bad, to say we don't care about our community, that because we pass and blend in we are leaving you behind is wrong, it's "stealth-shaming".

[Shantel]

Completely agree with you on all of your post especially this part.

Me too though I am not stealth and never will be. I believe that Nicole is a prime example of someone who should never out herself under any circumstances, she has a good life and is regarded as fully cis by her friends and associates, to announce to the other girls, "guess what I'm trans and I've been lying to you girls for 15 - 20 years," how stupid would that be?

[Susan522]

...to announce to the other girls, "guess what I'm trans and I've been lying to you girls for 15 - 20 years," how stupid would that be?

I agree.  That would be insanely stupid.

[Dread_Faery]

Other than this forum, Facebook and one half hour at a trans group which sent me home in tears (one of the reasons I don't have much to do with the community), Ive had nothing to do with trans issues & causes.
I'm sorry for that, I have been stealth since the day I went full time, most of my closest friends, who I have known for almost 20 years haven't got a clue.
These days I do what I can, but its not just trans causes.
I stand up for what I believe is right, if someone said a sexist comment around me they're in for a fight, a trans comment, they're in for a fight, a racist comment, they're in for a fight.
One of the reasons I believe I've been stealth for all these years is because of what I've done, I don't go out of my way to meet other transpeople, I feel bad about that, but I've often thought one of the easiest ways to get clocked is by being around other trans people.

The topic I started here was how do you deal with trans issues when stealth.
I've chatted to my best friend, one of the very few people in my life that knows my whole history and even she thinks that sticking up too much for trans issues can lead to questions.
When I came out, I was in high school, I was young and like so many my age will tell you, our exposure to trans people were on trash TV talk shows.
These days there are so many role models, who are women first and trans second, these people are educating the public and that can only lead to good.

Yes I feel bad for those who aren't stealth and it does seem on these pages at the very least that its them sticking up for the issue, but the way people attack those who are stealth is just as bad, to say we don't care about our community, that because we pass and blend in we are leaving you behind is wrong, it's "stealth-shaming".

It wasn't directed at you Hun, you quite obviously care, it was directed at a single hurtful individual.

And for what it's worth it's very rare that I'm read as anything other than cis, and I'm capable if being vocal in support of trans issues without needing to out myself. Unless of course I want to.

[Dread_Faery]

cis women don't risk having their cis identity questioned. I understand you identify as non binary. Scroll up to see topic.

Your logic is flawed, if you are perceived as FAAB and cis, why would you have your identity questioned if other cis women aren't? Unless of course talking about trans issues makes you question your identity, in which case I wouldn't be so quick to attack others.

I may be non-binary, but I also fully medically transitioned MtF a number of years ago and only get read as trans if I out myself. I find your belief that anyone who would stick up for trans rights and individuals, would only do it because they aren't able to fit it deeply insulting and extremely callous. There are many reasons people would speak out about trans rights, not least because trans-misogyny and trans-antagonism hurt all women.