Are crossdressers demonized in the TG community?

[TheBattler]

But if...

I recognise being female would be a better fit

Then why do you say...

If someone gave me a way to live life as a male without depression and without me breaking down as before I would take it.

What is the saying - only transistion if you absolutly need to.

As I said - I have never hated being male it just that I am not female. Without my female feelings I would be a happy male and getting on with life. But now these female feelings overwelm me sometimes and I am coming to the state in my life where I need to fix the problem to be happy. If I could get rid of my female feelings - that would be ok. But for now if I want to be happy I have to be either a CD or TS.

Aice

[Melissa]

Hi Alice.  I can not tell you *what* you are; I can only offer my input.  What you are is something you need to figure out yourself.  I will say this: Listen to your heart, even over what your head says.  What it says is will tell you more than any person or book could ever tell you.  Listening to your heart is a way of looking into your subconscious, which is generally far more accurate than you conscious is.

[TheBattler]

That is so hard to do Melissa which is why I feel so trapped. My logic has always said I am male (look at my body) But the sub-consious gives the indication of saying you are female. My sub-consious knows it want the HRT - but my head says no. My sub-conious is slowly but surly winning out.

Alice

[Melissa]

See, that's what I mean by the heart being more important to listen to than the head.  I realized this right away and surrendered to what my heart was saying pretty quickly, which made it much easier to sort things out and begin transition.

[Megan]

...And another thing - before I did not mind wearing my skirt arround my house without a wig. Now I need to put on a wig - I do not want to be 'hey guy in a skirt' hence different.

There are so many things that could be. If you can only be female part of the time, I can see wanting all or nothing. I wear a partial when I am out in public, and I wouldn't usually think of wearing it at home. I've even been known not to put it on for company. But then I have shoulder-length hair that is just thin on top. It depends upon your circumstances.

I have had my times in a skirt where I do feel so happy I have a smile for ear to ear. That is what worries me - I am to happy like that - like it was ment to be - hense I wonder if I am CD or TS. From what I know a lots of CDs go throught this - some become TS and some find their comfort level. But it is a turbulent time in their lives while they figure out their place.

You have to try things to find out, not just sit around and wonder. I spent most of my life completely in the closet. Then I decided to come out "hoping" I was a CD (and ignoring a lifetime of GID issues). But as soon as I started going out as Megan my concept of cross-dressing reversed. Now the old way felt like cross-dressing. I looked for opportunities to go out publicly, and people started telling me that I was a different and more likeable person when I did that and would I please keep doing it.

If I hadn't taken that chance, I never would have known. I certainly didn't believe that any level of acceptance was possible. But once I saw that it could work, I found myself on the slippery slope, and eventually I slid in, after watching a few other friends take the plunge. And now I have a partner I love, and a social life, and many things are open to me that were not before.

No, it's not at all the life that I was brought up to believe I should have. But what was I so worried about?

[cyanide]

maybe we have to try to agree with some of the definition of what it is to be a CD or a TS. There seems to be different views of a CD and a TS base on different experiences that basically 'generalized' the whole category.

perhaps the real question can be what did part of the CD community have done to be demonized as a whole in the TG community?  ;p

[cindianna_jones]

Take any group of people and give them time.

They'll find some way to divide themselves.  I'm not kidding.

Yes, CD's are demonized in groups of other TG groups.  I'm not saying it's right.  It is wrong. But it happens.

"You are not like me" is a very uncomfortable feeling for most people. 

Cindi

[BeverlyAnn]

Take any group of people and give them time.
They'll find some way to divide themselves.  I'm not kidding.
Yes, CD's are demonized in groups of other TG groups.  I'm not saying it's right.  It is wrong. But it happens.
"You are not like me" is a very uncomfortable feeling for most people. 

Cindi

Cindi is quite correct and it even happens within the CD frequency of the Gender spectrum.  Take a look at Tri-Ess, the group for "heterosexual" crossdressers and family.  Now setting up a group for CD's that reassures family that hubby's ok is fine.  The problem is that I've known a few members of this group and they look down on CD's that might prefer to spend Saturday night on the arm of a 6'6 ' gorgeous hunk of man.  LOL  In other words, if you're bi or gay, don't hang around with a Tri-Ess member.

Beverly

[Melissa]

perhaps the real question can be what did part of the CD community have done to be demonized as a whole in the TG community?  ;p

They didn't do anything?  As it was said above, it just happens in various groups.  For the TS, there is a lot of adjustment that takes place in their lives--in many cases, they will have to change *everything* about their lives.  It quite often seems that the CD does not realize the magnitude of stress a TS will go through as they transition, which may include losing all friends, going through divorce, losing their children, maybe their parents now shun them, and there's a good chance they may lose their job and may not be able to find more work. 

Then a CD will come along and say something like "You are so lucky, my wife won't let me cross-dress at home because she doesn't like it, so I don't get to do it that often."  A statement like this clearly demonstrates that this person has absolutely no comprehension of the ordeal a TS goes through, and this statement strongly implies that  they think a TS is only transitioning to "cross dress" fulltime.  When a TS lashes out, it is merely from the frustration of being so misunderstood.

[asiangurliee]

i am confused actually.... because i for one do believe that CD and TS are the same. am i wrong?

Elizabeth: you mentioned that you now relize that CD and TS are indeed different... in what way?
(for a second i was happy that someone agreed with me )



now i am not so sure what to think.

1. I don't enjoy anything about being male
2. I want to alter my body permanently
3. I am not motivated to do this from sexual turn on

In those ways we are different. I don't want to look like a woman, I want to be a woman. All the time.

Love always,
Elizabeth

What about someone who wants to look like a woman all the time? =p

[Melissa]

What about someone who wants to look like a woman all the time? =p

Probably transgender a.k.a. non-op.

[cindianna_jones]

I think that there is also something that has been overlooked in the context of this discussion.  Yes, there are those who will divide a group because your baseball cap carries a different logo.

However, you can also find group members who are all inclusive and accept individuals as equals under all circumstances.  In this respect, this forum is unique.  Yes, we do have some very "active" discussions.  Yet, there is a very good sense of cohesiveness which you don't normally find in other groups of social "deviants".

Cindi

[cindianna_jones]

It's a difficult pattern and response to break. Is it inborn or just deeply learned? I don't have any idea. But, it is there, in pretty much all of us. I need to be very conscious of how I speak and write to avoid it.

Nichole

Another transcends to view the big picture.....

Cindi

[Melissa]

Yet, look at the exchange just above her post. The exchange is probably joking, esp the initial post.

But the point is that a definition was included, a marker. This is that. To say that he is that and I am this is to immediately, intellectually form a separation between me and him. Even "social deviants" do it among ourselves.

I didn't say say this is that or whatever, I only offered a possible answer, which is why I prefixed it with "probably".  Still, I don't claim to be perfect, because I know I'm far from it.

[Elizabeth]

I think the point of all of this is that, while we are different in some ways, we all share one thing. This need to present ourselves as women. Me because I am one, CD'ers because they have a part of themselves that needs to be expressed as well. Even Harry Benjamin admits there is not a clear line between the ->-bleeped-<- and the transsexual.

If these attempts to define and classify the ->-bleeped-<- and the transsexual appear vague and unsatisfactory, it is because a sharp and scientific separation of the two syndromes is not possible. We have as yet no objective diagnostic methods at our disposal to differentiate between the two. We - often - have to take the statement of an emotionally disturbed individual, whose attitude may change like a mood or who is inclined to tell the doctor what he believes the doctor wants to hear. Furthermore, nature does not abide by rigid systems. The vicissitudes of life and love cause ebbs and flows in the emotions so that fixed boundaries cannot be drawn.

http://www.symposion.com/ijt/benjamin/chap_02.htm

The point is, Crossdressers suffer from some form or GD, in my opinion. In this regard they are no different than me. There suffering and self loathing no different. Their desire to be accepted and loved for who they are, rather than how they appear, no different.

Yes, it's true, crossdressers and transsexuals have differences, but we all suffer the same discrimination. We should all be supporting one another and not singling out anyone for any reason. I do think the most hurtful thing that is done to crossdressers is the implication, if not outright accusation, that they are just sex perverts. Even the sexually motivated crossdressers, still can only be what they are.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[cyanide]

They didn't do anything?  As it was said above, it just happens in various groups.  For the TS, there is a lot of adjustment that takes place in their lives--in many cases, they will have to change *everything* about their lives.  It quite often seems that the CD does not realize the magnitude of stress a TS will go through as they transition, which may include losing all friends, going through divorce, losing their children, maybe their parents now shun them, and there's a good chance they may lose their job and may not be able to find more work. 

this doesn't mean that CDs all have it and do not have anything to worry about. CDs do have other stress to worry about too~    and...there probably are more CDs that are aware of the sacrafices and the hardship that a TS has to go through than one might think.

[gina_taylor]

Hey Elizabeth,

Very nice points that you've brought up in your post. I've always thought that there was a differnce between a cross-dresser and a transsexual. Even though both will wear clothes of the oposite gender, the transsexual feels more of a need to become that gender than a cross-dresser does. Unfortunatey some people don't understand that and they just take us at face value that becasue we're dressed as woman than naturally we must be cross-dresser. Now I've been seriously thinking about transitioning for a long time, but one thing that alwasy comes back to me was what a therapist had told me about consequences. For this I'd be willing on losing my entire family. Right now I'm t hinking that if it can cure my depression, than I say "Yes."

Gina 

[Melissa]

Gina, I think I need to point out some important points about what you just said.

Even though both will wear clothes of the oposite gender, the transsexual feels more of a need to become that gender than a cross-dresser does.

That's not quite right.  A genuine transsexual actually has the gender identity of the opposite sex and therefore IS mentally the other gender.  The transsexual therefore wears the clothes of their true gender and they feel a need to align their body with their mental gender. 

There's a subtle (but extremely important) different between what we both said in that your statement says that the TS is actually a man who wants the body of a woman, where mine said the TS is a actually a woman who wants their body to match the gender they identify as.

Unfortunatey some people don't understand that and they just take us at face value that becasue we're dressed as woman than naturally we must be cross-dresser.

Well, that's not necessarily true.  When people see me dressed as a woman, they take me as a GG.

Now I've been seriously thinking about transitioning for a long time, but one thing that alwasy comes back to me was what a therapist had told me about consequences. For this I'd be willing on losing my entire family. Right now I'm t hinking that if it can cure my depression, than I say "Yes."

you may want to think about this some more.  Transition is not a cure for depression.  In fact you will probably go through more depression during transition than you ever did beforehand.  It's only a treatment for gender dysphoria and not actually a cure since it may never completely go away.

[gina_taylor]

Sorry for the confusion Melissa. Thank you for pointing out my mistakes. I actually meant to say what you had said  about a transsexual needing to align her body with her mental gender. I live in a very conservative town and even when I'm looking my best, society sees me more as a cross-dresser than they would a transexual woman. Now as for transitioning, I plan to be a full time cross-dresser without going through HRT or eventually SRS. I have a friend who went full time eight years ago, and like myself she's done nothing to alter her body, but I'm sure that as time passes I will be more accepted as a woman.

Gina 

[zoe]

I definitely think crossdressers are demonized by transsexuals.  It's petty and stupid.  Many will also make broad statements about crossdressers' motivations without actually listening to them.  For example, statements like, "Crossdressers see themselves as men" or "They just do it because it turns them on." have been posted right in this thread by transsexuals.

Crossdressing can be a fetish for some, the feel of satin or stockings or lingerie can be arousing.  Some go on to become transsexuals.  This whole idea of "crossdressers do this or that or feel this way" is far too broad to explain all motivations.

However, at the risk of not heeding my own advice, let me make this statement: "Crossdressers are women, even if only part-time."  The whole Tri-Ess name belies this ~ "The Society for the Second Self".  In Jungian psychology, we have a model of the opposite gender living in our psyche which can be expressed as "the perfect woman" (or man) or by outwardly dressing that way to express that part of themselves.

Transsexuals think that crossdressers give them a bad name.  Seriously, if people can read you, you are a "man in a dress" (not that there's anything wrong with that), no matter how you identify.  Belittling crossdressers doesn't help you pass any better.  Deal with your own life first.

Interesting conversation I had the other day.  My friend (GG) and I had just gone shopping and I bought a new bra (at the thrift store), it was a bit lacy and she was sorta teasing me about it because I tend much more towards the very simple black or white ones, not light blue with clouds and flowers and lace.  I told her I like being girly sometimes because I'm a crossdresser like that.  To which she responded her usual of, "You're not a crossdresser, you're a girl." *grumble*

Anyway, she said that lacy things are good sometimes.  She has certain panties which she wears sometimes under her normal clothes so she feels sexy all day long.  I said that's no different from crossdressers who wear panties under their normal clothes so they can feel sexy all day long.  Who wouldn't want that?

So y'all quit hatin' on crossdressers.  There's no clear line between crossdressers and transsexuals.  Live and learn, you'll figure it out.