Are you LEGALLY a woman?

[tinkerbell]

How do you know you are LEGALLY a woman?  In other words, how do you know if your true gender is recognized by law?
Are you legally a woman when you change your name? or do you become legally a woman when you change your gender marker on your drivers license?

Many states in the US (i.,e California) will let you change your name and gender marker on your drivers license even before you have SRS.  The process is very simple; all you need as a therapist's letter and a filled out DMV form stating that you are transsexual, and voila your new drivers license/ID card arrives in two to four weeks with the new gender marker.  Pretty awesome, huh?

Well, but what does this new driver license entitle to?  Does it mean that if you are arrested, you will be taken to a women's jail?  What about if you have children and divorce your spouse?  will they give you custody or at least visitation rights?  what about alimony for the children?

This is strange but it would seem that the laws only consider you "legally" a woman or a man after genital reconstruction surgery (i.e, SRS, GRS),  which to me, is absurd, given the fact that you already have some form of documentation under your preferred gender.

Based on California laws this is what you need to change your name.

What makes your name "legal"?

Your legal name is the identity by which you are officially known. Your birth name is a legal name because it is on your birth certificate and is used on all of your legal documents. If you want to change that name, you have two options, a "common law" name change and a "court ordered" name change.

Common Law Name Change Some people who change their name never get formal recognition of the change. They simply adopt a new name and use it over time.

If this name is used consistently for business and personal affairs, it can become your legal name through what is called a "common law" name change. This is a free method of changing your name. However, it does not create the kind of solid paper trail that a court ordered name change will.

Court Ordered Name Change A court ordered name change is one where a judge approves your request to change your name. You begin the process by picking up the proper forms, filling them out, and submitting them at the county court house. Once you pay a fee (or submit a fee waiver) you will be given a court date within six weeks.

During those six weeks, you are required to take out a small ad in the classified section of a local paper stating that you will be changing your name. Most everyone who changes their name, regardless of their reason for doing so, has to do this. In a few limited cases, a judge can waive this requirement. Judges will sometimes do this for people who need to protect their identity (often true of survivors of domestic violence) or who are unable to pay for the classified ad (can range from $50 to $120 in SF).

On your court date, you will appear before a judge with proof that you have taken out the ad. The judge may ask you a question or two about the name change. If all of your paperwork is in order and no one objects to your name change request, the judge will approve your request to change your name. This name is now your legal name.

And to make your gender legal in California?

What makes your gender legal?

No one knows for sure. California allows you to change the gender on your California birth certificate. Legal experts believe that this change will legally change your gender. However, as far as we know, this theory has not been tested in court.

The reason you might want to try to "legalize" your gender is that some laws (marriage and child custody, mostly) might require you to be a certain gender in order to utilize them. And while changing the gender on your California birth certificate will not guarantee that this gender is "legal," it is the best available method of getting recognition of your gender change.

The process for getting your California birth certificate changed is similar to the one used to get a name change. The primary difference is that you'll need a letter from your health care provider declaring that you have undergone "surgical treatment for the purpose of altering [your] sexual characteristics to those of the opposite sex." [California Health and Safety Code 103425.]

What "surgical treatment" means is unclear. In most cases, a letter from your physician or surgeon documenting that you have undergone the "recommended treatment" for altering your anatomy and appearance is sufficient. This is true regardless of what kind of surgery you have had. However, a judge is allowed to ask you specific questions about your treatment and can deny your request if your treatment does not include genital surgery. From our experience, however, denial on this ground is rare. It is more probable that the judge will grant your request and ask the state to issue you a new birth certificate.

Quotes extracted from this link.

So this is what is going on in sunny California right now, not so good IMO considering the upcoming Real ID Act.  What about in your state or country?  do you know if you are LEGALLY a woman?


tink

[Buffy]

The law in the UK (and indeed most parts of Europe) has been clarified in recent years. Previously in the UK your legal Gender was given by that recorded on your Birth Certificate.

Most law develops from "Case Law" which is set by legal presidence and in the UK in the 1960's the April Ashley case (in which a TS woman married a rich aristocrat) was used to define Transsexuals legal status.

In the above case the aristocrat decided to divorce April Ashley when he found out she was a transsexual. The case went to the Crown Court and the judge ruled that April was "Legally" a Man, as this was the "Sex" recorded on her Birth Certificate. The ruling given in the 1960's fixed the legal status of transsexuals as there was NO mechanism for changing your Birth Certificate.

Forward to 1990's Christine Goodwin a TS woman, was refused the right to marry her partner, because she was "legally" Male according to her birth certificate. Following lengthy appeals in the UK (which all failed), Christine took the UK Government European Court of Human Rights in Strassbourg, claiming she was a woman (physically and mentally), had had SRS and the UK Government was stopping her from being able to marry her long term partner.

The UCHR upheld her complaint and decreed that the UK Government should change (in Law) the ruling regarding the status of transsexuals and allow them to change their Birth Certificates.

The European Legal system is hierachical based with the UCHR being one of the highset Courts in this system. The ruling is binding on all countries within the European Union and the mechanism is that any ruling by the UCHR has to have a response from the Countries concerned and the ruling has to be implemented within a 3 year time period.

The UK Government introduced a legal process to allow Transsexuals to change their birth certificates as a proposal that went by the title of Gender Recognition Bill. The Bill went through various stages of consultation, drafting and discussion before becoming Law in the Uk in early 2004 as the Gender Recognition Act (2004).

From this date, any TS who meets the requirements of the application process and conditions (2 years in role, Name change, formal diagnosis of GID / Transsexualism, medical reports, signed legal declaration to live in role rest of natural life) is issued a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC), which allows all documents to be legally changed and the birth certificate to be changed.

The act is not flawless and requires couples (husband and wife) to divorce (because same sex marriages are not legal) before a GRC is issued, this obviously effects a number of people.

Other European Countries (most recently Spain) have announced similar Gender Recognition legislation and hopefully harmonisation across Europe will take place.

In December 2005, I received my GRC and my new Birth Certificate from the Register of Births and Deaths in the UK. My Sex is listed as Female and in the eyes of the European Union, I am legally Female.

It took nearly 50 years to clarify the legal status of transsexuals in Europe and one determined lady to effect that change.

Buffy

[LostInTime]

I fear what is going to happen once the Department for Homeland Stupidity has the final say on identification in America, especially the gender marker (which seems to have been thrown in as an after thought).

Am I covered legally? Not even close.

[melissa90299]

As bad  as it is in Cali, in some states, you are your birth gender. Period. Forever!

I got my gender changed on my Social Security records, showed them my Driver's Lic, Passport and Surgeon's Letter, no problem.

Maryland will change my birth certificate and my passport will be changed to permanent F upon submission of the surgeon's letter.

Some women in Cali have been able to get their gender changed with a non-specific letter from an FFS surgeon indicating an ireeversible procedure to conform to the target gender. My SRS surgeon's letter is very specific.

Soon, I will be completely legally female.

[Shana A]

Although one can get their gender M or F changed on driver's license pre-op, in most states that isn't considered a legal gender change until post op. Even then, there are some states, such as Ohio, where you can't change your birth certificate. If the Real ID act is implemented, this will make it even more difficult.

On another thread, folks have been discussing whether gender attribution even needs to be on legal documents. https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,17633.0.html

Zythyra

[Gabrielle]

Well according to the US Federal Government, they recognize you as a different gender once you have completed SRS for a MTF.  I don't know what is required for FTM.  So when RealID goes in place everywhere, it will mean everyone who's states are following the federal guidelines will have to follow the federal standard of SRS.  Its not so much harder, just a longer wait for the official nod of being legally a female.

[Melissa]

What about if you have children and divorce your spouse?  will they give you custody or at least visitation rights?  what about alimony for the children?

I know for the state I live in (I'm currently dealing with this), according to the law (which a judge may not always follow) custody and visitation is normally decided between the parents and if that doesn't work, neither one is automatically awarded based on gender.  Alimony is normally awarded based on the amount of income each parent makes.  Child support is calculated on the percentage of time the children spend with each parent and the income of each parent (offset by the alimony received).

I'm not certain of the jail question though and I'm not willing to test it either.

[Sarah Louise]

Tell me about it Zythyra, I am one of those unlucky ones who was born in Ohio.  The will change the name, but NOT the gender marker.

Oh well.

Sarah L.

[Shana A]

Well according to the US Federal Government, they recognize you as a different gender once you have completed SRS for a MTF.  I don't know what is required for FTM.  So when RealID goes in place everywhere, it will mean everyone who's states are following the federal guidelines will have to follow the federal standard of SRS.  Its not so much harder, just a longer wait for the official nod of being legally a female.

And non recognition of gender change of anyone who is pre or non-op. grrrrr

Tell me about it Zythyra, I am one of those unlucky ones who was born in Ohio.  The will change the name, but NOT the gender marker.

Sorry about that Sarah, hopefully that will get changed sometime soon!!

Zythyra

[melissa90299]

Tell me about it Zythyra, I am one of those unlucky ones who was born in Ohio.  The will change the name, but NOT the gender marker.

Oh well.

Sarah L.

Move to California and you can get a California birth certificate.

[Lisbeth]

How do you know you are LEGALLY a woman?  In other words, how do you know if your true gender is recognized by law?
Are you legally a woman when you change your name? or do you become legally a woman when you change your gender marker on your drivers license?

It depends entirely on where you are at the moment.  The gender marker on your drivers license tells you your legal gender in the state that issued it, but as soon as you cross state lines you have to check their laws.  Your passport will tell you what the federal government identifies as your gender, but the states are not required to accept their opinion.  Your birth certificate indicates your gender in your birth state.  There are states like Texas, Kansas, and Ohio that refuse to accept gender change.

Posted on: August 16, 2007, 10:59:26 AM

Tell me about it Zythyra, I am one of those unlucky ones who was born in Ohio.  The will change the name, but NOT the gender marker.

Move to California and you can get a California birth certificate.

No, you cannot.  You can only get a birth certificate from your state of birth.

Posted on: August 16, 2007, 11:05:04 AM

Tell me about it Zythyra, I am one of those unlucky ones who was born in Ohio.  The will change the name, but NOT the gender marker.

There is an alternative method.  Send the required documentation to the U. S. Department of State and get a new passport with your correct gender marker on it.  Then use your passport as your primary means of identification instead of your birth certificate.  The DMV in any state will accept your passport gender marker as correct.

[gothique11]

In Alberta (Canada), you need to have GRS (SRS) in order to have your gender marker changed legally. You need two letters, one from the surgeon who preformed the GRS/SRS and one from an independent doctor declaring under oath that you have a vagina. I know some people here are trying to challenge that and have been for years, since not all people can get GRS (medical reasons or otherwise).

There are a few people, however, who have gotten there gender marker changed without going this route by someone who was unaware of the proceedure. Basically, you walk in and you say that you have an error on your card and some people, although rare, have had there gender marker changed that way, but only on their license.

Your Alberta Healthcare card can be changed as well with the right letters before undergoing SRS, that is the rules; however, many people run into a worker who will not change it unless you have surgery. So, it kind of becomes a luck of the draw thing, sadly.

You can change your passport gender marker if you are undergoing SRS in a year, but by the end of the year you must prove that you've undergone surgery or your passport is revoked, leading to possible future issues.

I know of people who have gotten there passport and Healthcare card changed, and then went into to use that if the person asks for documentation that you are female. It sometimes works. But, technically, they are supposed to use your birth certificate as the proving document, which cannot be changed until GRS. (I think technically, your birth certificate is actually just amended, so the card you have will say F, but in government records it will have your original gender marker and then an amendment for gender change attached to it).

Since I have not undergone GRS yet, my documentation has not been changed.


Posted on: August 16, 2007, 05:18:26 PMI should mention that here we do not have to go to court to change our names or our gender. Which is nice. Everything is done through a registry.

[genopunk]

Regarding Prison and Jails -

We live in CA, and have a friend who is pre-op, and has an F as a gender marker on her DL.

She was arrested after her mother filed a false vadilism charge against her in an attempt to get her "mental help" for her "condition".  The damage that was sited was minor, and related to a fight that was instigated by her mother (who attacked her, and bit her BTW)

She was arrested, and treated as a woman until they did the medical screening for the jail, in which they immediately switched pronouns to he, and assigned her to a male jail for 7 days while she awaited a hearing.

When she spoke to the jail's shrink, the shrink said to her, that in jail they don't have to respect your gender, and that it is what is between her legs that defines her as male or female.  The shrink called her MR, and Sir, despite her obviously female appearance.  whe she objected the shrink degraded her, and told her that it didn't matter what some quack doctor on the outside said, cause as long as she had a D#@$ betweek her legs, she was a man.

She was kept in solitary confinement to keep her segregated from the other prisoners, and was referred to as male by all the staff, except for one or two people who just didn't talk to her.

Mind you, she was NOT convicted of anything, and was released after her hearing.

So in my mind, until you have GRS, you are legally male in the justice system.

(As an update on this case, our friend has been ordered to appear in court, despite the fact that her mother tried to drop the charges.  The DA is trying to raise the charge to a felony, which could lead to more jail time. They see her Therapy as a sign of "Mental Instability", and wrote up her Estrogen injections as "Drug Needles" in the police report.  It's a bunch of BS that wouldn't have happened if she wasn't trans.)

Sorry to rant,  This is just a very personal subject for me right now.

Hugs

Mila

[gothique11]

That really sux geo. I hope your friend doesn't go back to jail.

I believe that it is the same thing here, so if I were to go to jail pre-op I'd be thrown into a mens jail. I don't imagine it would be fun at all.

[melissa90299]

Regarding Prison and Jails -

We live in CA, and have a friend who is pre-op, and has an F as a gender marker on her DL.

She was arrested after her mother filed a false vadilism charge against her in an attempt to get her "mental help" for her "condition".  The damage that was sited was minor, and related to a fight that was instigated by her mother (who attacked her, and bit her BTW)

She was arrested, and treated as a woman until they did the medical screening for the jail, in which they immediately switched pronouns to he, and assigned her to a male jail for 7 days while she awaited a hearing.

This is awful, what county did this happen in? This all comes down to the first advice I got from my gender therapist, do not ever put yourself in danger of getting arrested.

[melissa90299]

Media Contacts:
Mattheus Stephens, Stock Stephens, LLP, 619-234-5488 x 308, mestephens@stockstephens.com
Christopher Daley, Transgender Law Center, 415-865-0176, chris@transgenderlawcenter.org

July 5, 2007 - John Doe, a 2005 inmate of the Orange County Jail, today successfully settled a civil rights suit against the County resulting in significant policy changes and a settlement sum of close to $50,000. Doe, represented by San Diego law firm Stock Stephens,  LLP and the Transgender Law Center (TLC), alleged denial of medical care and gender identity harassment in the suit. The resulting policy changes will formalize policies regarding provision of hormones to transgender inmates and training for medical and corrections staff.

"This settlement is a huge win for our client and for transgender people throughout Orange County," said Mattheus Stephens, Partner with Stock Stephens, LLP. "We signed on to this case because we were appalled by the way our client was treated and believe that this settlement goes a long way towards guaranteeing that the County takes seriously the needs of transgender residents."

"Transgender prisoners around the state and nation are at high risk for abuse and denial of medical care," said Christopher Daley, TLC Director.  "We're proud to have worked with Doe and Stock Stephens to not only reach resolution for the harm Doe suffered, but also to have successfully worked with Orange County officials to move forward on these important safety issues. We look forward to working with the County over the next year to implement the terms of the settlement."

In reaching this settlement, the County denied all wrong doing. Doe and his attorneys were impressed by the County's willingness to engage on these issues and their clear commitment to making the agreed upon policy changes.

# # # 30 # # #

Transgender Law Center (www.transgenderlawcenter.org), founded in 2002, provides free legal services to transgender people throughout California and works with community members and partnering organizations on cutting-edge transgender rights policy initiatives.

Stock Stephens, LLP (www.stockstephens.com), Attorneys Lauri Stock and Mattheus Stephens merged their practices in 1999 and shortly thereafter started Stock Stephens, LLP.  Together they focus on domestic partnerships, civil rights and human dignity issues, employing their combined 36 years of legal experience in the fight to end discrimination and establish equality for the LGBT community and others.

[Nero]

Regarding Prison and Jails -

When she spoke to the jail's shrink, the shrink said to her, that in jail they don't have to respect your gender, and that it is what is between her legs that defines her as male or female.  The shrink called her MR, and Sir, despite her obviously female appearance.  whe she objected the shrink degraded her, and told her that it didn't matter what some quack doctor on the outside said, cause as long as she had a D#@$ betweek her legs, she was a man.

And while it's not the most compelling personal reason to get SRS, it IS something I mention to non-ops I ever encounter. Stories like this and the horrible death of Tyra Hunter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyra_Hunter

No one ever expects this to happen to them. You can say you feel like a woman all you want, but to much of society, what we have between our legs is the key way of how they identify us. As shallow as that is, I don't plan to be the one who attempts to change the way the penal system deals with gender variant inmates (and, no matter what the laws eventually state, men's jail will NEVER be a safe environment for transwomen). I certainly hope none of us find ourselves in that situation, but there are plenty of people that also didn't expect to find themselves in jail who are incarcerated for completely fraudulent reasons.

ciao,
Gina M.

Thing is, transmen really have no choice in the matter. It's keep what's between your legs or spend 60,000 - 100,000 on 10 stage surgeries that don't produce anything even approaching male genitalia (which most likely wouldn't pass muster in a strip search anyhow).

[Buffy]

So how is one declared legally Female or Male in the US?

It appears that there is no clear legal prescedent?

Buffy

[melissa90299]

The transmen at my gym change and shower in the women's locker room/showers. It seems they are more comfortable in that environment.

Posted on: August 16, 2007, 11:24:48 PM

So how is one declared legally Female or Male in the US?

It appears that there is no clear legal prescedent?

Buffy

http://www.drbecky.com/birthcert.html

State to state breakdown

[genopunk]

Once you have had GRS, you can file a legal gender change in court.

I have had several friends do this, and they have not problems in regards to this change.

(BTW, my friend who is having the legal problems lives in CA as well, in the US)