There's a Big Diff Between 20 and 25+ Isn't there?

[Amy The Bookworm]

If this forum had a dollar for every time that question or similar is asked it would be doing well! Look there may be some physiological benefits to transitioning early but you're losing nothing by starting now. If you don't do it now you'll be asking yourself "is 30 too late" in a few years. I had the chance to transition when I was 23 and blew it then spent the next twenty years telling myself I was too old. Guess what? Turns out I'm not.

Is it possible to be happy with transition when transitioning after age 25? When I saw this topic, I thought, "Where's Grace!"

As someone else mentioned, they transitioned younger and are still looking at doing facial feminization surgery.

Will you have better results at a younger age? Possibly. Is it possible to be happy with transition later in life? Yes (Source: GRACE). Something I had to deal with before starting HRT was the thought that I won't get my youth back (which, due to never really living it because of how I felt, I feel was completely lost to me). I've lost the chance to be a young girl, a teen, and a single 20something flirt and such that my sister and friends got to experience and enjoy. On top of that, jumping into womanhood seems incredibly unfair to do at 33/34 with no real experience.

To me, transition isn't even about becoming a woman, because I feel I already am one. To me, doing this is about being me. I don't want to die having never been able to live. I've seen people (For various reasons) do that, and it is by far the saddest thing I think I will ever witness. I don't want that to be me. Worrying about my looks ... well ... even if I pass and I'm not particularly attractive (or if I just don't feel I am) that's something most women my age do anyway.

[aafhtu]

A big part of why I want to be female is the way I look and I'm afraid it can't be changed much.  I literally have a hard time looking in the mirror these days.  I hate the way that my body looks...

So....

- You do not like the way you look now

- You worry that you would not like how you look after transitioning

That sounds like a no-win situation to me, but it also sounds like a "What have you got to lose?" situation as well. If you do not transition now then I can guarantee that you will be older if you change your mind. Every day makes you older, so by your own outlook the longer you put off transitioning the less point there is in doing it. The problem is it does not go away. The desire just gets stronger and stronger as you get older and older.

Only you know if you need to transition, as opposed to wanting to transition. If it is a "need" then you will do it.

[Lostkitten]

25+ is too late? Shi.. I am 26 and started today. Age is overrated with transitioning, for real. It is genetics, luck, personality and confidence. You do not become a woman just with looks but also a huge part of how you feel.

It is way too easy to look at people who pass now, even if you see a before and after. I now get told I pass just fine even pre-HRT which is awesome but do you think you see all of my photos? People like to look pretty, especially on photo's and people who show before and afters do not show the awkward stages because you have those. The most awkward stage is when you are just starting and completely new to it.

You probably have gotten compliments already now as a man. Anyone, even if just your grandparents. You probably know what makes you stand out, what makes you unique. That can be your eyes, your chin, your height, anything. Although now for you it stands out as the most masculine there is and the most hated point, big chance it becomes your best feminine trait further unto transition. Masculine jawlines look so nice often after transitioning. So.. stop doubting yourself and make yourself feel bad of what should make you feel unique and beautiful.

[TheQuestion]

25+ is too late? Shi.. I am 26 and started today. Age is overrated with transitioning, for real. It is genetics, luck, personality and confidence. You do not become a woman just with looks but also a huge part of how you feel.

It is way too easy to look at people who pass now, even if you see a before and after. I now get told I pass just fine even pre-HRT which is awesome but do you think you see all of my photos? People like to look pretty, especially on photo's and people who show before and afters do not show the awkward stages because you have those. The most awkward stage is when you are just starting and completely new to it.

You probably have gotten compliments already now as a man. Anyone, even if just your grandparents. You probably know what makes you stand out, what makes you unique. That can be your eyes, your chin, your height, anything. Although now for you it stands out as the most masculine there is and the most hated point, big chance it becomes your best feminine trait further unto transition. Masculine jawlines look so nice often after transitioning. So.. stop doubting yourself and make yourself feel bad of what should make you feel unique and beautiful.

Thanks Kirey, thanks everyone really.  I don't think my face is bad, with HRT and electrolysis I'd say I may not need FFS, although I'd at least like my forehead recontoured.  I'm just disgusted with my body, large part may stem from the fact that I've had no electrolysis and even when I shave stubble can be seen, and the red marks from shaving as well.  I'm not terribly hairy, but I am hairy to an extent and that makes me feel awful.  I can never get over the fact that I have hair growing in as soon as I shave it.  Having a totally smooth body with no hair growing back would probably do a lot for me.

Anyway, I just signed consent and will be grabbing my mones tomorrow.  So, yeah, I don't know...

[stephaniec]

good luck

[Susan522]

Since you are starting, " 'mones", will you be starting electro as well? 

*mod edit under ToS #5

[ImagineKate]

Thanks Kirey, thanks everyone really.  I don't think my face is bad, with HRT and electrolysis I'd say I may not need FFS, although I'd at least like my forehead recontoured.  I'm just disgusted with my body, large part may stem from the fact that I've had no electrolysis and even when I shave stubble can be seen, and the red marks from shaving as well.  I'm not terribly hairy, but I am hairy to an extent and that makes me feel awful.  I can never get over the fact that I have hair growing in as soon as I shave it.  Having a totally smooth body with no hair growing back would probably do a lot for me.

Anyway, I just signed consent and will be grabbing my mones tomorrow.  So, yeah, I don't know...

Hair grows deep in the skin. You would be surprised. It's like 2-3 mm deep. Try plucking one gently and you'll see exactly what I mean. That's why you have a shadow and the only real way to get rid of it is to do electrolysis or laser hair reduction.

Lowering T should slow the growth to some degree but it won't be significant enough to get rid of your beard shadow.

[JoanneB]

Since I am somewhat adept at tossing hand grenades, I'll put the question  a slightly different way.

I see all these 20 somethings going on about about transitioning and how great and wonderfull their totally miserable life that it has been up untill now will be so much happier and better. I think. Are they F'n crazy? Do these people maybe have an independent life, as in a job, their own place, have to buy food, do laundry etc. Mostly not, still in school, still living at home. Yet they see their life as over unless.... Teenage angst taken into the new "Twenty five is the new fifteen" era we life in. How the heck can you make such a life changing decision and be so sure?

This is from a 58 y/o pre-jurasiac dinosaur who twice experimented with transition in my early and mid twenties, and started experimenting again 5 years ago and still going. Perhaps it is from being a major target as a kid but to me success at passing is not being laughed at, pointed at, rocks thrown at, or far worse. My big Sanity Test I tell everyone who is unsure, is just spend some quality time in grocery store checkout lines Friday nights and Saturdays to see what REAL women look like. All shapes, all sizes, some petite, some line backers, some with plenty of facial hair, or more.

I am 6 ft tall, big boned, giant hands, even bigger feet, deep voice, and even almost bald. Not a whole lot of that changed physically between 25 and 55 beside a little less hair. Emotionally, spiritually, life lesson wise PLENTY. Though I still present male, nothing makes me feel more genuine then presenting female. I achieved my life long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman. Most importantly I achieved the dream to become a for real person.

Life isn't, nor will it ever be perfect. Likely not even close to perfect. Life is hardship, life is adversity. Life is work, hard work. Life is as real as it gets. If I knew what I do know would I take that first ever Premarin again? NO. OK maybe no. I wish I was that wise back then. I don't wish I transitioned then. Five or six sure. Before I had a history. Before I was fully culturalized. Before all sorts of expectations were ingrained into my psyche. But I was only a really really big fat stuttering mouth breathing kid back then that felt I should have been born a girl.

[stephaniec]

well spoken

[Seras]

Hey worriers.

I started aged 25 and a half. I am having really good results so far. So long as you have a half decent base it is not a problem to start at this age and not have to worry about the things you guys are worrying about, so long as puberty was not overly cruel then you will not have lost out that much. I get it right, I had all the same worries as you and that feeling that if you had just done it a bit earlier like the real young transitioners now how great it would be. You know though, you can still do great, 25 is still really young, so is 26. Think how dumb you will feel if you wait another 5 or 10 years and really miss the young transition boat. If this is something you are sure you want, you should get on it.

[Susan522]

Speaking of dinosaurs, I am "offended".  At 68 I am probably one of the oldest survivors here.  You know what? Many of you might suffer under the misapprehension that people of my age group suffer from a diminished capacity or belong in a wheel chair, being spoon fed in/at some rest home.  Well here is a news flash for ya.  Next week we, (my husband and I) are flying to Utah for some skiing.  We like Utah because the powder there is some of the driest and hopefully the deepest, as in 2-3 feet.  After the New Year, we are meeting the kids and grandkids for a month in Maui.  We have our own place there so I am looking for some warm "cozy time", along with the requisite scuba diving and body surfing in 80+ water.

So how did I get to be so "privileged"?  Well it really was not all that difficult.  I finished school, got a "good job", decided it did not pay nearly enough to satisfy my tastes and had too many "bosses" with too many "rules" at their disposal to "moderate" my behavior and inhibit my life.  So I quit.  I took care of those things in my life which were preventing me from living my life on my terms, and then got busy doing what I enjoyed doing the most, which was making obscene amounts of money.

Is this getting just a little too "strong" for you.  Well, I won't apologize because if you have a problem with my life and how I live it well, I guess that is your problem.  Not mine.  So lets back up a bit to this question of "Is their a big difference between age 21 or 25?"  In a nutshell NO.  But beyond that this is just another, (insert PC appropriate adjective here), question, like "are my tits too big/small?" or "how can I feel or have sex like a girl with a penis?" or "should I wear pink nail polish or red?"

I mean excuuu-uuuuse me for asking, but is this really the relevant question here.  Maybe a good question might be WTF am I doing, or pretending to do, or planning to do with the rest of my life?  Or something 'kinda "stupid"' or dumb or boring, like that.

Disclaimer:  The above rant was not in anyway intended to ffend or damage anyone's delicate sensibilities or violate any rules or TOS.

I have a problem with the abuse of power and authority in the name of "protecting" people from reality.

[Alyssa Rae]

I respect that Jill and I understand what your saying, and you are right, but I just feel really bad that I may have waited a measly couple years too long and TBH, I do want to be hot.  I feel like if I pass I'll be attractive, but I just don't know if I could pass.  Everything would just be easier for me if I passed, and I'd regret it if I didn't pass.  I guess pass or not, is 26, in most cases, too old to expect real soft tissue changes, etc?

No.  I'm 25 on one month HRT and I'm getting nice results already.  My friend who is 34 started a week before me and already could pass if she wanted.  Only thing she's waiting on is further development.  26 is a great age to start.  You'll have some boobs (albeit small) in a very short time.

[Cristyjade30]

I mean, I'm looking at photos and it seems the people who have real results, you know, people you'd think couldn't pass and then end up passing totally from HRT, seem to have started at 20-21 or younger.  Is there even a point in starting at 26, a few months from 27?  I mean, my HGH must be all but used up and I'm sure I've shut up shop for puberty in the last couple years.  I can be on HRT tomorrow, but I just don't know...

I just can't see having drastic results like some girls do and to be honest, I feel like I'd need drastic results.  I just can't see it at 26 and with a full on male skeleton.  At my age and weight it seems pretty unlikely that I'll have adequate changes.  I'm sure I'll get breast growth, but I'm also sure they'll end up being very underdeveloped and strangely shaped.  I can't see getting any fat on my butt or hips either.  I'd love to watch my face chance and my body as well, but I feel I'd have to weigh a lot for that to happen, enough that I'd look huge based off the weight alone and I just can't see how I could end up looking more feminine.

I don't really know what to do or even what I'm looking for in posting this, but is there a huge difference between starting at 20ish and starting at 26?  I'm pretty sure there is and I'm having a difficult time coming to terms with that.  On ->-bleeped-<- there's a girl who started at 20 and after 4 years has a totally different face and body.  She was skinny like myself, actually had a very similar built to me, until I grew a bit more that is.  She seems to have developed to around a d-cup.  I've read plenty saying that at 20 a female body is still achievable, but at 26 is it just kind of minor changes?  I just feel like there's no point.

Look up Sona Avedian on you tube she started at 32 I think it was 30 or 32, but she is smoking hot and she started ou as a huge frickin musle bound marine, there are several others that started older, and look HOT! Sona didn't look like she could ever passed, just have patients and let hrt work, you can achieve a female body, you just have to work at it. There are several excersises that will give you hips and a bum, just research and work at those excersises until you have the hips and but you want. I met a former body builder that transitioned, she was a big muscle bound Arnold lookin dude, now she is a shapely hot chick. you can do it!

[TheQuestion]

I'm on HRT now, so I guess well see.  I'm just worried that I did in-fact get hit too hard during puberty, or more specifically, from about 19-23.  I'm 6'0" and generally run anywhere from 145-155, but you could stand someone next too me, same height and about 30lbs heavier and they'd likely look smaller then me.  I'm just worried about my bone structure.  I've seen Sona Avadian, and other "big dudes" transition into tiny women, but she was a tiny person with a lot of meat on her.  I'm a big person with not much meat on me.  I push about 1/8" of fat and I can feel my ribs.  I know I don't have a small frame lurking beneath.  Even with no weight on me at 6'0" my band is about 38", at best it could get to maybe 36".  I just worry my upper body construction and torso length is too long and big in comparison to my bottom half.  Sorry if I pissed anyone off, I'm just trying to make the best decision I can atm, and despite whether or not you think in similar ways, you're not me and don't fully understand the variables and risks I'm taking which are unique to my own life.  I'd have a hard time in not passing, some people don't have any issue with not passing or simply don't even want to.  I've always had social anxiety problems and not passing wouldn't make that any easier.  Plus a lot of other things.

Regardless, I'm on day one of HRT, so I guess I'll know soon whether or not I'm a good responder.  Sorry again if I aggravated anyone, but in my case, I just had to ask before making the final decision.

[Susan522]

There is a big difference between looking 'hot' and being perceived as a woman.  I am sure that there are a lot of women here who will agree with me that 'HOT' is just a 'look', that can be put on or taken off like make-up or a 'hot dress' or shoes.

[TheQuestion]

There is a big difference between looking 'hot' and being perceived as a woman.  I am sure that there are a lot of women here who will agree with me that 'HOT' is just a 'look', that can be put on or taken off like make-up or a 'hot dress' or shoes.

I never really said that I'm doing this to be hot.  Would be nice, but I want good results because it's what I'd need to be perceived as a woman.  I can look pretty hot when wearing make-up already.  I can make my face look like a totally normal woman's face.  What I'm looking for is the ability to see a woman when I do take that make-up off.  I don't want to have to wear make-up all the time just to be seen as a woman.  I think you have it backwards in thinking that I associate good results with becoming "hot," when all I'm really saying is that I'm a pretty sturdily constructed 6'0" (despite being thin) and I'd need noticeable changes if I were ever going to be able to blend in realistically.

[Susan522]

I think you have it backwards in thinking that I associate good results with becoming "hot," when all I'm really saying is that I'm a pretty sturdily constructed 6'0" (despite being thin) and I'd need noticeable changes if I were ever going to be able to blend in realistically.

OK.  I get that.  You described yourself as 6', 150lbs., sturdily built.  You are describing my body age 22, although I never quite reached 6'.  I too was quite wiry and in fact I played HS football.  I was fully masculinized with plenty of facial and body hair.  I was never 'bullied' and was easily able to function as a male in my world...except for that nagging reality that it was all a sham; a lie.  I knew that my behavior, my "presentation" was a lie.  Just a big fat lie.

The "changes" that you are looking for will come with time and the effects of HRT, but more importantly they will come as a result of your inner being, your "true self" being finally free of that manly persona that you struggle so hard to project to the world.  All the plastic surgery in the world will not change you, or "trans" you in a woman.

You might want to give a bit more thought into just how you see yourself living, earning a living, working, and loving.... as a woman.  The 'looks' which you seem so concerned about are frankly, just quite literally, only skin deep and will ultimately fade with age.

[TheQuestion]

OK.  I get that.  You described yourself as 6', 150lbs., sturdily built.  You are describing my body age 22, although I never quite reached 6'.  I too was quite wiry and in fact I played HS football.  I was fully masculinized with plenty of facial and body hair.  I was never 'bullied' and was easily able to function as a male in my world...except for that nagging reality that it was all a sham; a lie.  I knew that my behavior, my "presentation" was a lie.  Just a big fat lie.

The "changes" that you are looking for will come with time and the effects of HRT, but more importantly they will come as a result of your inner being, your "true self" being finally free of that manly persona that you struggle so hard to project to the world.  All the plastic surgery in the world will not change you, or "trans" you in a woman.

You might want to give a bit more thought into just how you see yourself living, earning a living, working, and loving.... as a woman.  The 'looks' which you seem so concerned about are frankly, just quite literally, only skin deep and will ultimately fade with age.

HS Football, huh?  I have no less then 30 trophies from baseball, basketball, track, soccer and karate.  I was a 2x MVP in baseball (I live in a big city and our league had hundreds and hundreds of kids), never missed an All-Star game, and disappointed college scouts when I decided to retire at 18.  I'm less bulky then I was then (probably bigger in bone construction though), but I'm still foolishly strong even for a man considerably bigger than me.  That was sort of my claim to fame is that I'm a freak athlete.  I use to race kids on bikes, and when I say I use to race kids on bikes, I mean I'd run a streets length and beat kids who were riding bikes.  My friends use to have a thing where they'd all jump on me and try and wrestle me to the ground, big kids (some bigger then me) who were also athletes mind you, and I'd just toss them off.  It use to take like 4-5 or more people to get me to the ground. 

The fact that I'm so athletic, and I've never worked out really, sort of bothers me.  I know there are strong women, but I'm sort of on another level in terms of natural strength, even more so then the majority of men, and people have noticed how unusually strong I am.  Part of me is scared that I'm so strong based off my skeletal structure and how it intertwines with my muscles, regardless of their size.  I just had someone tell me I should play Nighting or Daredevil in a movie.  It was like, WTF?  I'm getting told I should play superheroes at 6'0" and 147lbs?  Just sort of makes me worries that my body just won't allow me to pass.

Regardless, I'm on HRT right now and the more I think about not passing the more I want to stop.  Thing I'm taking away from this is that thinking about it isn't doing it and I'll never know unless I try.  So, I'm basically abandoning the topic.  I do appreciate you and everyone sort of trying to alleviate my concern though; thanks for that.

[PinkCloud]

I don't think age is such a big deal. I'd say: genes and genetic talent.

Many people can play the piano, few can become classical concert pianists. The difference is usually small, such as better motor skills. Still, there is a difference. The best ones are being shown, while thousands will never make it to be a classical concert pianist no matter how much or how early they started to practice. So we only tend to see the lucky ones. It is the same on youtube. We only see the ones that were lucky. The thousands of non passing trans aren't visible as much, no matter the age.

A friend of mine had surgery on the age of 20, but still grew to a towering 6 foot 5, and she has stronger brow bossing than me, age 36. I have larger breasts than her. So age isn't defining, but the chances are that the younger you start the more luckier you can be to exploit genetic talent.

[JoanneB]

The "changes" that you are looking for will come with time and the effects of HRT, but more importantly they will come as a result of your inner being, your "true self" being finally free of that manly persona that you struggle so hard to project to the world. 

Give me a BIG Amen Sister!

THAT is the absolute truth! I am practically bald, 6 ft tall big boned, barrel chested, yet when I look at myself in the mirror I see a woman. Even when I am naked. It has taken me a good 6 years now to only BEGIN to heal and ALLOW myself to feel and be myself.