Yeson booked

[ReDucks]

So when people say their range didn't increase they are referring only to the top, and lost range on the bottom?  I interpreted no range loss as the range shifted up but stayed the same number of octaves, otherwise how did people speak 75 Hz higher without training their voice.  I just assumed range extended in both directions.  Bad Assumption I guess but it doesn't matter to me either way

I think the trills will come, I am probably just running out of air because my cords don't close properly.  I can only trill 15 seconds now (1st day) and the hums are only 10.   I need to see my therapist soon I think!

I don't see any problem with you getting back to high C if that is your range now.  I couldn't sing that high without going into falsetto in the past, I'm not sure if that will even be possible.  I asked Dr. Kim when I would be able to Yodel again and he said it depended on the break and it wouldn't be there anymore.  I assume that means no falsetto.  I'm not trying until I have some more healing time.

[anjaq]

Well as Iunderstand it the range is decreased by the portion at the bottom and part of it may be regained at the top, but in most cases the gain at the top is not as much as the loss at the bottom. So the max pitch is probably not changing a whole lot. in some it seems to have gone up a few halftones...

You can trill 15 seconds? Woooo - I never could do much more than maybe 10. Reaching 15 was already a great day - for the lip trills it is mandatory to let a lot of air flow. That is the goal of it. Lots of airflow make the voice better and relax the muscles.

Forget about that falsetto thing. There are too many definitions of it. What do you call falsetto? Definitely to go into the upper pitch ranges I need to cross from the speaking voice into a singing voice, that includes a "head voice". The transition is a bit iffy - but I could do it. Maybe you need to get rid of classifying your voice in male parameters and descriptions - I dont know - would women have a "falsetto" the way you think of it?

[ReDucks]

Well as Iunderstand it the range is decreased by the portion at the bottom and part of it may be regained at the top, but in most cases the gain at the top is not as much as the loss at the bottom. So the max pitch is probably not changing a whole lot. in some it seems to have gone up a few halftones...

You can trill 15 seconds? Woooo - I never could do much more than maybe 10. Reaching 15 was already a great day - for the lip trills it is mandatory to let a lot of air flow. That is the goal of it. Lots of airflow make the voice better and relax the muscles.

Forget about that falsetto thing. There are too many definitions of it. What do you call falsetto? Definitely to go into the upper pitch ranges I need to cross from the speaking voice into a singing voice, that includes a "head voice". The transition is a bit iffy - but I could do it. Maybe you need to get rid of classifying your voice in male parameters and descriptions - I dont know - would women have a "falsetto" the way you think of it?

Agree there is disagreement if women have falsetto or not, I think it makes no difference to the discussion of a testosterone influenced vocal system.  That said, I have heard women yodel which is a flipping between modal and false registers, so it must exist even if the 'scholars' have renamed it.  For now I'll just call it upper register.  So when I sang a lot, I had a strong 'upper register' and could cover the break very well, making it seem to flow from modal to false without much difference in tone.  If I really squeezed I could get a high screechy tone that may be whistle but I never tried to control it or make it particularly musical.  It never sounded good enough to waste energy trying to improve.

Re: trill and airflow, I am not sure what the impact of my non-closing cords might be to that, it would seem that if they closed more, the air flow through the system would lessen and trill might be harder so maybe my cords are closing more now that they are shorter?

P.S. my yodel comment to Dr. Kim was a joke, I don't yodel at all

[cindianna_jones]

My iPad isn't playing it for some reason. I'll bookmark this page and try again tomorrow.

[anjaq]

For now I'll just call it upper register.  So when I sang a lot, I had a strong 'upper register' and could cover the break very well, making it seem to flow from modal to false without much difference in tone.  If I really squeezed I could get a high screechy tone that may be whistle but I never tried to control it or make it particularly musical.

Ok - and right now you cannot reach that upper register anymore? That sounds frustrating then. The lower register goes just about where normal speech is - but in femals speech patterns some of the upper register is included for intonations in the prosody. Maybe it also is an effect of the Botox? I am not yet sure which muscles really are affected, but I understood it the way that they are part of the pitch control, so I would expect less pitch range while the Botox is in effect. But thats just a theory.
Geez, I hope I get my upper range back, I was not bad in using it just pre-op after all that voice therapy and it seems to me you had that too?

[ReDucks]

Ok - and right now you cannot reach that upper register anymore? That sounds frustrating then. The lower register goes just about where normal speech is - but in femals speech patterns some of the upper register is included for intonations in the prosody. Maybe it also is an effect of the Botox? I am not yet sure which muscles really are affected, but I understood it the way that they are part of the pitch control, so I would expect less pitch range while the Botox is in effect. But thats just a theory.
Geez, I hope I get my upper range back, I was not bad in using it just pre-op after all that voice therapy and it seems to me you had that too?

I haven't tried to really access the upper range.  For now, when I do get to my break around C5, and instinctively switch, it doesn't seem the same, and I have been backing off when that happens.  For sure it isn't a smooth transition, but my throat seems tired and a bit sore after doing the exercises (day 3 today)  I don't want to push it so I am not really trying new things.  I can go higher and it feels like it is not the same register as normal speech or as my past 'upper range'.  It's new territory for me, it feels more like a cross between my old trained voice and my old falsetto voice.  Right now I am working on breath control and utilizing my full voice without breathiness and letting that all work itself out. 

I expect my instrument to change a lot as it heals, and haven't seen the pitch increase yet, so I'm just trying to stick with the exercises and build the foundation.  Sometimes when I speak in what was normal but raised pitch before, I get a higher pitch than I expect, by a lot, so I think the change is coming, but it isn't here yet.

I suspect you won't need that upper register as much after surgery, and things will be different when you do.  Which is why we went to Korea, right?

[anjaq]

Well, its going to be interesting. I definitely think I want to use the upper register - if only for singing.

I only had a few words so far. It was weird and a bit like you said - if I really drop down, I am at my old pitch, if I increase just a little, I end up higher then I expected. But not much can be said from a total of maybe 4 words over the past 2 weeks or so and a week more before I can dare to use more words...

My expectations would be that the transition to the upper range is easier and that ther eis less difference between the lowe and upper registers. This is how Amy described it. I hope it happens

[ReDucks]

I had my first voice therapy visit and the doc was very complimentary of my voice, saying it was hard to remember I was trans and that my voice presented 'low female'.  I haven't seen much pitch change but the tone of the voice has softened and lightened a bit, which I am pleased with.  I caught a quick look at the numbers she was capturing during the evaluation, and it does seem my speaking pitch has raised on average, but I'm waiting until I see the final data.  We did a couple exercises together and she coaxed me into a more female range and I really liked the sound of what I heard.  Vocal therapy with a therapist who knows trans issues and goals is now something I would recommend to every girl, pre or post VFS.  The right therapist can make a huge difference and mine helped me in one visit to find the voice of my heart. 

3 months is coming up in a couple weeks, and voice exercises have been interesting in that they tax my voice so that it is hard to be heard for a while afterwards.  I initially focused too much on the 'record how many seconds' part and really pushed to hold the trills for 25-30 seconds.  My therapist told me to focus on the tone, softness and ease of the sounds during the exercise and ignore holding it as a goal, just keep track to be sure my breathing is improving.  It makes a big difference in duration when I don't trap air and go longer, it also makes a huge difference in the sweetness of the sound.

So glad I got into therapy!

[anjaq]

I am so glad that things improve for you. I think I always tried to say that to everyone: get voice therapy, ideally from a specialist in gendered voices. It pays off for everyone - people who have no intention for a surgery, those who want to do the surgery and those who had the surgery . Thats because there is so much more to voice than just the pitch.
It is a bit early for me to say, but I feel my voice has softened, changed timbre and sounds more female even at a lower pitch. It is far easier to use a higher pitch now, and I think with therapy it will be not that hard to find a comfortable speaking pitch which does not strain me at all now and which is in a feminine range and which will become normal and natural for me. Before the surgery , I had to struggle to keep that higher pitch and to always "lock up" the lower and relaxed pitches. The lower ones are gone, so I can relax there now and the upper ones are so crazy easy to use. Using voice melody is soo much more easy now, I could not believe it in my first few sentences. I hope the  botox is not participating in too much of the changes as it will wear off, but I already know that that point will be a struggle.
My therapist never tried to count the seconds when I do exercises, but in the voice assessment they do count that as well as analyze pitch and range and some other parameters. But the exercises usually focussed on lightness, softness, easyness, breathing, using lots of air flow, relaxing the muscles in the jaw and projecting the voice.

[ReDucks]

here is a 90 day recording.  My voice has not changed a lot, and I think the Botox is wearing off because my voice is weaker, and I can hear and feel some hoarseness when I talk that isn't easy to clear up.  I think you'll pick some of it up on certain words in this recording.  Anyway, still on track, but the majority of work and improvement is still before me. 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1vWPE6JZ8WV

[iKate]

Yeah I can hear you struggling a bit. You almost sound like Eva in the Dr Haben thread.

However they did say that pitch increase happens beyond month 2, so I'm guessing you still have a ways to go.

[ReDucks]

Yeah I can hear you struggling a bit. You almost sound like Eva in the Dr Haben thread.

However they did say that pitch increase happens beyond month 2, so I'm guessing you still have a ways to go.

Kate, since I'm a bit older than the average, Dr. said it would be more likely to change at or after 4 months. 

I do not try to keep the voice up in these recordings as I wanted to give a realistic progression from surgery after seeing so many questions on when the voice changes or hearing others trying to reach for fast results and then feeling cheated that it didn't happen for them as fast as Jenny or J-mi. 

I can honestly say I am already happy, even if my pitch hasn't increased a lot... I am almost rid of the low resonant tones that ring out in the bathroom or other large hollow spaces, and I have lost my lower octave while gaining almost that much on top.  Voice training is just starting for me, so I hope there will be more control and ease in my voice as the surgery heals fully.

[anjaq]

Cool - you actually gained an octave at the top? Thats nice. For me so far, I lost maybe 3 notes at the bottom end and one at the top end, reducing my overall range from 3.7 octaves to about 3 octaves. Thats at the 8 week mark.

So if botox is wearing off, you are supposed to take the pills for another 3 months, right?

[ReDucks]

Yeah pills will start in a week or two, I'm still not sure it has worn off or if I just have a hoarse voice.  You really sound good, I think I gained just 10Hz in average speaking pitch when I did my initial eval with my speech therapist. 

[ReDucks]

I have posted 4 month post op results.  This is a natural speaking voice with no attempt to raise pitch or speak in a 'trained' voice.  Botox wore off a couple weeks ago and I started the pills, but I am not sure if they are helping or hurting the hoarseness. 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s12smUk3g9sC

[anjaq]

Hi. When did the Botox wear off for you and what did the pills help with? I am at end of month 3 now and I feel like maybe the Botox is already getting weaker. I feel like I have more issues with my voice and not less - more hearseness, "foreign body sensation" and such. I think I will watch it for some more days and if it persists or gets worse, ask Jessie.

[anjaq]

I think the pitch in your recording is really good. Its not squeaky high, but its clearly in a female range, I would say. (y)

[ReDucks]

Hi. When did the Botox wear off for you and what did the pills help with? I am at end of month 3 now and I feel like maybe the Botox is already getting weaker. I feel like I have more issues with my voice and not less - more hearseness, "foreign body sensation" and such. I think I will watch it for some more days and if it persists or gets worse, ask Jessie.

It seemed to start fading about 3 months into recovery and I started pills at 4 months.  I think my voice has changed a good bit in strength and clarity in just the last month, my recording was first take right after waking up, later in the day, my voice gets tired and sounds raspy.  I may take some time off the pills to see what happens then, but am waiting to hear back from Dr. Kim before changing anything.

[ReDucks]

I think the pitch in your recording is really good. Its not squeaky high, but its clearly in a female range, I would say. (y)

Thanks! I'm excited by the progress I'm making but still taking it slow.  My prosody is terrible, I really admire your 'song' when you speak, it really sounds natural and pleasing to the ear.  I hope my therapist helps me achieve something similar, right now were just starting out and my voice is a moving target, so who knows where I'll end up.

[anjaq]

Thanks! I'm excited by the progress I'm making but still taking it slow.  My prosody is terrible, I really admire your 'song' when you speak, it really sounds natural and pleasing to the ear.  I hope my therapist helps me achieve something similar, right now were just starting out and my voice is a moving target, so who knows where I'll end up.

I have to admit, my prosody is not so much a product of my voice therapy but rather of just living and intuition and maybe learning by living... and the VFS helped a lot with it because it feels soooo much easier now to use different pitches when speaking, I dont need to force it anymore - I still do need to improve on my prosody though. When talking without reading, it is more monotonous and I sometimes talk too fast, use filler words and therelike. But my voice therapist was doing some exercises about prosody when I was starting therapy again about 18 months ago - now, post-VFS we are also just starting slow. just trying mostly to relax the voice, find the sweet spots, get rid of hoarseness and improve projection and airflow - more basic stuff for now.