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What are the worst subprocedures of FFS for recovery time?

Started by Brenda E, January 01, 2015, 08:50:10 AM

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Brenda E

What pieces of FFS have the quickest or slowest recovery times?  Does, say, a brow lift take as long to settle down as something like a full chin and jaw reshaping?

I ask because I'm probably not going to undergo any hugely invasive FFS - mainly looking at just hairline, forehead contouring (minor), brow lift, maybe a little nose work, and tracheal shave.  I was hoping that by keeping the amount of work done to a minimum and not going for any major bone-related stuff, the recovery could be kept short.

But then again, part of me says that I might as well go all in - do the lower part of my face too (which I don't mind, but which could probably use a little work).

I have nothing major I want changing, just touch-ups really.  But the stuff that worries me is the jaw recontouring - sounds incredibly uncomfortable...
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Julia-Madrid

Hi Brenda

Lessee here...  In my opinion, from the stuff I've had done:

Nose work isn't too painful, but it's quite unpleasant, mainly at night, to breath through one's mouth. There are ways to reduce the dry throat thing.  There's also the dripping of plasma for a couple of days that's icky.   It takes around 10 days to recover to usability, and 6 months for the nose to stabilise, but outcomes are generally very good.

Forehead and brow were no problem at all.  Almost no pain, and no perceptible recovery issues.  My eyes looked a bit different for a couple of weeks, and then the brow lift.

Tracheal shave:  this did make swallowing uncomfortable for a couple of weeks.  I needed to keep water at hand during meals in case stuff got stuck going down.

Jaw and chin are the nasty ones.  I had genioplasty.  Due to the entry route, it's highly invasive and affects muscles and nerves you need a lot, and notice a lot.  See the diagrams on Dr Bart's website - they are good.  Chewing, even opening my mouth, was hard for the first week.  Even mushy soup veggies were a challenge.  The main frequent consequence is numbness. I had 3 months of total numbness in my chin up to my bottom lip (great for electrolysis!) and then it gradually returned.  Six months after FFS my chin sensitivity is almost back to normal, but I do have a strange pressure in my bottom teeth from incisor to incisor.  This is a known side effect which could take a long time to go away.

One of the major recovery issues for any FFS is bruising, and the joy of watching it gradually appear, go yellow, and drain slowly down one's face.  Give it a month, maybe more.

Hugs
Julia


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EmmaD

I agree with Julia.  My nose is a very slow process and contributed to an unpleasant few days afterwards.  After 6 weeks, mine is still numb at the tip and very sensitive to any bumps.  The obvious swelling has mostly gone and what there is is probably only visible to me.

I had a major face and neck lift done and the tightness and swelling from these is still there the anchor points.  My forehead is also very tight.  My lip lift scar is still visible but also slowly going.  My eyes are also taking a while to lose colour.

From a visibility perspective, it seems to be a bit of a lottery.  It turns out I bruise very easily. A week after my procedures, I had bruising appearing in all sorts of places and it took weeks to go away.  This made travelling home interesting.   Your reaction will be unique to you as I noticed with the other girls who were there at the same time as me.  I had a dark bruise appear from the corner of my mouth down one side of my chin.  Not sure what caused that!

I also do not react to anaesthetic very well and feel crappy for about a week and very tired for about a month.  This happened following a medical procedure I had 5 weeks before FFS too. The fact I had 2 general anaesthetics so close together probably didn't help.  Even if I looked ok, I still felt like crap.  This could have impacted my ability to return to work early but since I go back to work next week after 6 weeks away, this hasn't been an issue.



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Donna Elvira

Hi Brenda,
I changed my avatar photo before replying to this and to be frank, having never done this sort of comparison before, even I was suprised by the result. I did a bit of everything: forehead recontouring, upper and lower blepharoplasty,malar implants, rhinoplasty, upper lift lift, chin height reduction (pretty massive as you can see from the photo), jaw recontouring and facelift to finish it all off.
Without any hesitation, the chin surgery was the most difficult to recover from, probably 6 months with zero sensation (but also great for electrolysis..  :) ) and even today, while I have mostly recovered, there is a tightness in my lower lip that is proving to be very stubborn. For everything else, I was over the worst of it after 3 to 4 weeks.
Getting back to my surprise when I did my little composite photo, I think it demonstrates very clearly just how big a difference the chin height reduction made to the overall appearance of my face, which was otherwise changed less than I imagined. With that chin height reduction the overall  height-width ratio is far more feminine than pre-surgery.
Wishing you all the best!
Donna

P.S. BTW, Pictriev rates the photo on the left 92% masculine and the photo on the right 98% feminine...
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Brenda E

Thank you all for the responses.  Most helpful, and comforting to know that the parts I really want to tinker with - forehead, eyebrows, eyes - aren't the most painful.

Next step - booking a consultation with an FFS doc.  This has how become my main 2015 transition-related project.
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Paula1

Good Luck Brenda with your surgeon choice and journey ... :)

I remember flying back to the UK a week after FFS in Chicago, then two days later going shopping.

A woman said to me " You poor dear, have you been in an accident."

I said " Yes I was hit by a Mack truck " ......  ;D

Being British, she probably didn't understand what a Mack truck was .. LOL :laugh:
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Amy1988

Quote from: Brenda E on January 01, 2015, 08:50:10 AM
What pieces of FFS have the quickest or slowest recovery times?  Does, say, a brow lift take as long to settle down as something like a full chin and jaw reshaping?

I ask because I'm probably not going to undergo any hugely invasive FFS - mainly looking at just hairline, forehead contouring (minor), brow lift, maybe a little nose work, and tracheal shave.  I was hoping that by keeping the amount of work done to a minimum and not going for any major bone-related stuff, the recovery could be kept short.

But then again, part of me says that I might as well go all in - do the lower part of my face too (which I don't mind, but which could probably use a little work).

I have nothing major I want changing, just touch-ups really.  But the stuff that worries me is the jaw recontouring - sounds incredibly uncomfortable...
I just had a brow lift with some other surgeries and though the swelling went down pretty quick the bruising still persists and the surgery was months ago. I think the estrogen I'm on prolonged the bruising.
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Amy1988

Quote from: Donna E on January 01, 2015, 12:23:47 PM
Hi Brenda,
I changed my avatar photo before replying to this and to be frank, having never done this sort of comparison before, even I was suprised by the result. I did a bit of everything: forehead recontouring, upper and lower blepharoplasty,malar implants, rhinoplasty, upper lift lift, chin height reduction (pretty massive as you can see from the photo), jaw recontouring and facelift to finish it all off.
Without any hesitation, the chin surgery was the most difficult to recover from, probably 6 months with zero sensation (but also great for electrolysis..  :) ) and even today, while I have mostly recovered, there is a tightness in my lower lip that is proving to be very stubborn. For everything else, I was over the worst of it after 3 to 4 weeks.
Getting back to my surprise when I did my little composite photo, I think it demonstrates very clearly just how big a difference the chin height reduction made to the overall appearance of my face, which was otherwise changed less than I imagined. With that chin height reduction the overall  height-width ratio is far more feminine than pre-surgery.
Wishing you all the best!
Donna

P.S. BTW, Pictriev rates the photo on the left 92% masculine and the photo on the right 98% feminine...

I've seen your pic from time to time and I was always amazed at how beautiful you are.  You have came a long way from where you were. 
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Donna Elvira

Quote from: Amy1988 on January 03, 2015, 09:04:11 AM
I've seen your pic from time to time and I was always amazed at how beautiful you are.  You have came a long way from where you were.

Thank you Amy, that's very sweet of you to say that.
FFS was an absolute life changer for me and that is the main reason I react to quite a lot of the posts on the subject. Regarding this specific thread, the point I was trying to make is how big a difference chin surgery can make. It is unfortunately the riskiest of all the "standard" FFS procedures but it can make a huge difference to the overall balance of the face. That being said, given the risks of permanent nerve damage, I hesitated myself right up until the pre-op consultation the day before I actually did the surgery.
   
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Brenda E

Amy, you seem to have had wonderful results.  Dr. Bart van de Ven is on my list of surgeons to consult with - depending on what life throws at me in the next six months, he may be my primary option.  From his web site and from testimonials from patients such as yourself, he appears to be a very competent practitioner.
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Amy1988

Quote from: Donna E on January 03, 2015, 10:11:34 AM
Thank you Amy, that's very sweet of you to say that.
FFS was an absolute life changer for me and that is the main reason I react to quite a lot of the posts on the subject. Regarding this specific thread, the point I was trying to make is how big a difference chin surgery can make. It is unfortunately the riskiest of all the "standard" FFS procedures but it can make a huge difference to the overall balance of the face. That being said, given the risks of permanent nerve damage, I hesitated myself right up until the pre-op consultation the day before I actually did the surgery.


I was thinking about chin reduction next.  Didn't know it was the most risky though.  I thought I had done all the risky procedures. 
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Amy1988

Quote from: Brenda E on January 03, 2015, 11:37:28 AM
Amy, you seem to have had wonderful results.  Dr. Bart van de Ven is on my list of surgeons to consult with - depending on what life throws at me in the next six months, he may be my primary option.  From his web site and from testimonials from patients such as yourself, he appears to be a very competent practitioner.

My surgeon was Dr Freeman actually.  But yes it's made a huge difference for me.
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Zumbagirl

I found jaw reshaping to be one of the harder surgeries to recover from. Maybe it was because it was my 3rd time on the operating slab or maybe it's just tough. The only other thing that was a bit painful was breast augmentation. My first round of ffs involved doing the forehead, nose and trachea shave. I was black and blue from the top of my head to half way down my back afterwards. It was a pain, but it wasn't particularly painful. In my 2 ffs adventures (forehead, nose, trachea, and later lower jaw reshaping), I was more or less back to somewhat normal, meaning feeling like a human being after about 3 weeks. SRS was a different story. That took me a good 6 weeks to get back to feeling like a normal human again.
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Brenda E

Quote from: Amy1988 on January 03, 2015, 06:04:23 PM
My surgeon was Dr Freeman actually.  But yes it's made a huge difference for me.

Sorry.  I meant to write "Donna" instead of "Amy", but you look extremely cute too! :embarrassed:
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Jannicke

Interesting subject as I am heading towards my first session of FFS(procedures consering bonealtering). I have yet to decide upon the surgeon, though.
I had SRS back in 2004 and it took me some 5-6 week before being able to do an honest days woork. Right after the surgery I felt like being runned ower by a truck and it took me a week to get back on my feet again and another week before I could leave the hospital.
I had breast agumentation the year after in 2005 and that was also painfull, but not comparable to SRS.
Regarding FFS I'm looking for an agressive approach and have shortlisted Dr Bart v.d. Veen, Dr Spiegel, Dr Deschamps Braly/Dr Ousterhout and Dr Marcello Di Maggio. Except for Di Maggio I'm having personal consultation with all of them. If anyone know of other reputable surgeons with a proven track-record I'd appreciate your feedback.
Jannicke


HRT: Sep 2002-
Full time: Sep 2002
SRS: Dec 2004, Gunnar Krantz, Linkoping-Sweden
Labioplasty: Sep 2005, T.H. Bjark, Oslo-Norway
BA: Oct 2005, T.H.Bjark, Oslo-Norway
FFS, part 1: 25 th of June 2015, Dr Di Maggio, Buenos Aires-Argentina
Hairtransplant 1/2: 17.12.15/12.4.17 Dr D. Pathomvanich, Bangkok-Thailand
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carrie359

Brenda
I had full FFS on December 18th.  I would say like some others said not being able to breath through the nose bothered me most at first and not seeing well.  My eyes did not swell shut but could not wear contacts or glasses.
My brow, eye lift and general face lift was not bad at all.  I just don't like being in a hot room because my nose kinda messes with me.. other than that all good
I had a lip lift too and not a problem there either.. or lip filler from the belly fat was not a big deal.
I think for me being self employed and really needing to work no matter what is what hurt the most.
I still cant work a whole day.... and I was on the table for a full 10 hour surgery.. so you will need rest.
Also make sure your doc gives you proper pain meds... most do but nurses stick to exact timelines sometimes and if not working talk to doc and keep your pain managed.
Luv,
Keri :)
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Julia-Madrid

Quote from: Jannicke on January 04, 2015, 01:23:25 PM
Regarding FFS I'm looking for an agressive approach and have shortlisted Dr Bart v.d. Veen, Dr Spiegel, Dr Deschamps Braly/Dr Ousterhout and Dr Marcello Di Maggio. Except for Di Maggio I'm having personal consultation with all of them. If anyone know of other reputable surgeons with a proven track-record I'd appreciate your feedback.

Hi Jannicke, I had an excellent experience with Facial Team - their three key surgeons worked on me in Spain.  Since you're an old hand at the big surgeries, you already know that you might experience some mid- to long-term side effects.  I did several Skype calls with them beforehand.

Good luck
J
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AmySun4400

Hi Brenda,

I had full FFS on 12/18/14, and from all the procedures performed the chin/jaw recovery looks to be the most difficult by far.  I'll update this post again in a few weeks.

misty2

Hi Brenda, I wrote this post for the Yahoo FFS group. I am re-posting here because it addresses some of your question.

I was born January of 1964. I started my public transition, going full-time, January 1, 2013. My beard had been fully removed, using laser, by 2008. HRT had begun November of 2012. My first stage of FFS surgery, forehead contouring and tracheal shave, took place on June 19, 2013. I had my first Rhinoplasty September of 2013. I had revision rhinoplasty August 19, 2014. I had chin and Jaw surgery and lip-lift October 29, 2014.

The only thing that kept me going for the six months from the beginning of January 2013 to end of June 2013, that stretch of interacting with the general public without any facial corrective surgery, was the knowledge that eventually I would have FFSurgery.

During my first six months in public nobody thought I was a woman or treated me as a woman. I was treated as if I was a man dressing as a woman. Negative reactions ranged from fear, to disdain, to disgust, to pity. Positive reactions were entertained politeness or occasionally, I would be congratulated for my bravery. None of those reactions was affirming. But those six months did reinforce my resolve to pursue FFS. I do acknowledge that negative reactions are a spiral. When people frowned at me I often frowned back. When I would get a lot of frowns I would start to expect frowns... which, I am sure would lead to more frown... it is tough. I would try to break the cycle. I would try to "be in the moment." It simply was not enough.

During my FFS research I decided that I was going to have my facial surgery in steps. This is because it was my observation that I was not able to find any single surgeon that (I thought) could handle my three critical areas with equal skill. Also, I held out hope that (just maybe) I would not need all of the surgery that I initially dreaded I would need. Finally, I was scared, the idea of being on the operating table for 8 to 12 hours frightened me.

Now that I've completed my lower face surgery I basically have one surgery left (which is to correct my hairline.) At this point I think I can provide anecdotal comments on having my FFS into the three phases:

1. Forehead and trachea

2. Rhinoplasty

3. Chin/jaw and lip lift.

The positives:

Each surgery, separately, was easier to handle.  However, no surgery was easy. My forehead surgery was incredibly difficult and I sometimes wonder if I would have lived had I also had rhinoplasty and jaw surgery at the same time. In retrospect, I think the doctors would have had to stop my first surgery prematurely if it would have been scheduled to last longer. This was due to my allergic reaction to my intravenous antibiotic on the operating table. I literally was vomiting while I was unconscious on the operating table.

My first 24 hours post forehead surgery felt like I was on the edge of death. I know that seems melodramatic. Nevertheless, that is how I felt. It took my body about 24 hours to get the antibiotic out of my system. Once that resolved, the rest of my forehead contouring recovery went very well. Less than 72 hours after my forehead surgery I actually went clubbing for a few hours. I begin to enjoy my time in Buenos Aires very much. I remember it fondly.

The forehead result was better than I had imagined. In 48 hours I went from never passing to being able to pass all the time while walking down the street. And I was passing maybe half the time in face to face interactions. I still was not passing all of the time. However, even when I was clocked, people were still nicer to me post forehead surgery. I have found that even if people figured out I lived much my life as a male, the more feminine I looked the more accepting people behaved.

My rhinoplasty surgery was the easiest surgery compared to the forehead surgery and the lower face surgery.

As I have written recently the jaw/chin/lip surgery has been very challenging for me psychologically. The over month long recovery from swelling had left me in a very deep funk. Lower face surgery was one step backward to take two steps forward.

The biggest positive of my multi-step process is that I think the aesthetic outcome has been maximized. (I'm not writing that I think my result is spectacular. What I am contending is that given my start with extremely masculine features, I think my result is better than what could have been expected in one single surgery.)

When I began my research, I felt that Doctor Ousterhout and Doctor DiMaggio were doing the best foreheads. I chose Doctor DiMaggio because I thought that his procedure built and improved upon Doctor Ousterhout's technique.

I chose a separate (non FFS specific) surgeon for my rhinoplasty because I didn't think any of the FFS surgeons did an adequate job addressing a nose as large, humped and droopy as mine. I had never seen a good example.

I selected Facial Team for my chin, jaw and lip lift because I liked their CT scan approach to my very bony and asymmetrical chin. Also, the limited amount of information I could locate regarding long term sensation change (for all surgeons) in the lower lip was favorable to Facial Team. Finally, that they had three full surgeons, not residents, in the operation room at the same time was remarkable.

People ask why I did not choose Facial Team for my forehead. The reason is that when I was deep in my forehead selection process, there simply were not enough Facial Team forehead examples for me to be confident on predictable outcome. From 2010 to 2012 there were many, many example of Dr. DiMaggio's work coming online and every example was excellent. I also considered most of the U.S. based surgeons but I could not find (except for Dr. O) the consistently predictable or volume of examples attributed to Dr. DiMaggio.  This also goes for Dr. Suporn (not enough examples.) I choose to not use Dr. O because when I visited him, in person, and compared him to my interactions with Dr. DiMaggio I preferred the demeanor of Dr. DiMaggio. I liked Dr. DiMaggio's technique and personality better than Dr. O. Dr. O was so against splitting my nose surgery from my forehead surgery that I was not confident that he would do it separately. Every time I brought it up he said no. But I did not get to the point of putting him on the spot. Maybe if I would have forcefully insisted he would have relented.

This was my ranking of forehead surgeons two years ago:

1.       DiMaggio
2.       Facial Team
3.       Ousterhout
4.       Suporn
5.       Bart
6.       Spiegel

If I were redoing that ranking today, it would be different of course. I am going to pass on re-ranking that list today. But I will write, that I think the top two spots are still occupied by Facial Team and Dr. DiMaggio. If hair transplants are going to be part of the process I think it's important to note that Facial Team can offer that during the forehead surgery. As far as I'm aware, that is new.

If a favorite surgeon of others is not on that list it is because I thought they did poor work or there simply was not enough examples of their work, available to me, to be able to reliably project an outcome.

I believe another benefit of breaking up my surgeries into stages was that each surgeon was able to start with a healed image from each previous procedure. I know some argue that one surgeon being able to modify all the parts during one long surgery creates better synergy and balance. I don't agree. I found that being able to plan the next phase while considering the healed phase is better.

Reducing the amount of procedures in each surgery allowed both me and my surgeons to focus on less variables during pre-surgery planning. I believe this increased our ability to communicate with each other, reduced misunderstanding and allowed for a maximum cooperative, predictable, outcome.

The interval between surgeries also allowed me the luxury of time to consider my next step with a healed and progressively more feminine face. This should not be underestimated. I was able to get evolving feedback from some very close friends and doctors such as my dentist and dermatologist about the next best step. This time and evolution also made engaging in virtual Photoshop sessions easier and more predictable as I could model (with actual resolved outcomes) and focus on altering only the parts remaining to be altered.

The negatives:

Cost: breaking the surgery into components probably tripled (maybe more) my costs. This is a huge negative, but an effect for which I had planned. I realize cost makes the idea of breaking up the surgeries unmanageable in many cases.

Time: I have spent a lot more time: swollen, bruised, debilitated and traveling. I am tired of it. It would've been nice to have one surgery (if it had only been one surgery) and just be done with it. It would be nice to be able to get onto the next phase of my life. If people ask me what I've been doing with my life recently: the answer I tell them is working on my stand-up comedy. But, in reality the biggest part of my life is been working on transition, my divorce, (which my wife blames on me having surgery) and healing.

Another huge negative is that having multiple independent surgeries (and being open about it) leads many friends, family and acquaintances to conclude that I am nuts. I had been very open about my surgery and my plans for surgery. I now regret this. People think I've had a lot of surgery. And, of course, the perception is that it's all based on vanity. If I hear one more warning about not turning into Michael Jackson I think I will throw up. I have also received one too many emails about how I just need to find Jesus or, its spiritual alternative... spend more time meditating.  Sorry, does that last sentence literally offend everybody?

My perception, of course, is that my surgeries are corrective surgery. But it's hard for me to convey this to a non-transgender audience. If I would have had one FFS surgery, the works, it would be perceived by others as "one" surgery and it would be over.  I wouldn't be judged as harshly. It's frustrating when people treated me with disdain because I didn't look like their vision of a woman and later also treated me with derision because I am taking steps to bring my appearance more in line with a stereotype.

It also did not help that I was over 50 years old. In addition to slowing recovery. This led people to conclude that was going through a mid-life crisis. What they do not realize is this crisis began in January 1964 when the doctor mis-categorized me. Those five or 10 seconds of visual inspection, set me on a path, threw me into a canyon, from which it has literally taken half a lifetime to climb free.  I was consciously aware I was in a bad predicament when I very young. If there is a crisis, it began much earlier than mid-life. It is only now, in mid-life, that I have the resources of time and money to correct this error. My lifetime of work, to earn the money, to plan the path and follow the plan, has taken me decades.

What I've learned:

I would have worked harder to have each procedure with less time between each. In an ideal world I would not have had other commitments. But, that simply was not my case.

I should have revealed that I was transgender about five years, maybe ten years, earlier. Even if I would not have been living as women full time.

I should not have waited for my wife to "come around" and give me permission to have FFS. For twenty years she was on the edge of saying "yes" she even booked our trip to see Dr. O back in 2006. But when she saw what magic he could do' (there were many, many more photographs in his office than online) she left the appointment in tears. That set me back another 5 years as I tried to work through a compromise with her. This is also where the idea of having FFS in stages germinated.

Additionally, if I were starting over, I would have been much less open (to non-transgender acquaintances) about the surgeries. I would have been much more secretive. (Only about surgery, not about being transgender.)

I need to write that I would still be very open to members of this forum. I will continue to be an open book on this forum. This resource, has been precious.

Finally, if I was only able to afford one procedure the decision is easy, it would have been the forehead.

Thank you so very much to all who have contributed to helped to make this forum.

Kind regards,

Danielle
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Violet Bloom

  I'm interested in all responses to this thread since I'll be having FFS this year with nearly the same scope of work as Brenda.  I've got a pretty good sense of the recovery time for the procedures involved and I've had a consultation with my surgeon of choice.  My worry stems more from the fact that I've never had a surgery of any sort in my life.  The closest things I've had to anesthesia were dental freezing and some sort of mild local anesthetic used during a biopsy of a mole and it only dulled the pain.  I'm scared of allergic reactions and ineffective sedation.  I'm also very concerned the early recovery is going to be awful as a result of the general anesthetic and anything else that's getting injected.  I hear morphine makes a lot of people extremely nauseous.  There's no testing ahead for any of this - it's just taking a chance and hoping for the best based on statistically low probability of severe reactions.

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