What does being "full time" actually mean?

[kittylover]

this might sound like a stupid question but I'm not really sure about it. maybe the concept is more relevant to trans ladies then it is to us guys . I don't pass . I'm too lazy/don't care enough/have been given too much of an easy time socially transistioning at college  to really try.  that's the thing about 90% of the people on campus call me my chosen name now that I've came out to my proffesors. off campus , there are quite a few people who still don't know but the people who actually matter to me do. So depending on how you look at it I'm either nearly full time because I'm out to so many people or not at all because I never look like how a man is "supposed" to look....

[Ms Grace]

I can only speak from the M2F side - going full time usually means a point at which you say, OK from this point onwards I'm presenting as female, my presentation will always be female everywhere I go, I expect people to use my chosen female name and to use female pronouns and to treat me accordingly. It also usually coincides with changing your name officially and all relevant identification records.It's usually a big deal when you're working as going full time at work involves coming out to colleagues and arranging the transition process through HR.

[cindy16]

To the OP, I think looking like how a man is "supposed" to look is not so important especially if everyone around you accepts and treats you in the way you want to be treated. It may matter if one needs to 'pass' to be safe or to hide one's TG status. You may not have come out to everyone, but if they don't matter to you as you said, then their opinion of you shouldn't count.

On the broader question of what exactly is 'full time' / RLE, I am not so sure. Ms Grace has given a good list, but it need not apply uniformly everywhere. e.g. in India where I live, and I think in many other countries around the world, one can only legally change their gender post-SRS. And yet, a 'documented real life experience' of at least 3 months is one of the necessary conditions for starting HRT, though I think it can be replaced with 3 months of monitoring by a therapist. I am not sure how they expect people to go through this 'documented RLE' without allowing any medical or legal changes. It's almost like setting people up for harassment and ridicule, given the situation that prevails here.

[Ms Grace]

It's almost like setting people up for harassment and ridicule, given the situation that prevails here.

Very sadly true. 

[anjaq]

I also am not sure what it means really. For many there seems to be some magic point where they say "I will dress/present female/male from this day on always". And tha tis it for them then. I never was like that - my presentation shifted, depended much nore on my body, behaviour and other things - I did not even change that much in clothes. And there were always for a long time some people who would still call me the old name, misgender me - but I guess when I only used my new name when introducing myself was part of it, also maybe really correcting others to use that name. Of course I was still out to many of the people I knew. Another part was maybe really putting effort into covering facial hair remnants and then lasering it - maybe in FtMs this would be the equivalent to binding?

Overall I think it can just be a preocess and should not be put too much emphasis on. Although some psychs want to see you "go fulltime" before they will presribe hormones or initiate a legal name change (so a legal name change often comes after the going full time). For me, I just was me and what others thought was a fluid thing that shifted over a year or so until I felt like things were improving a lot.

[RuthFrances]

I posted this same question a while back. I feel like I am almost full time, living a real life experience as ME. I am currently have laser to my face, working on weight loss and body shape, wear mostly female clothing. The thing is, my wife and sisters and other close female relatives dress about the same as me. I'm out to the people I am closest with and after I start HRT (appt in April) I will come out to more. I feel that some of the mtf ladies here might view my as bit less than living real life because I don't wear make up and a dress daily. Don't get me wrong, I do love the girly stuff, so much so that my wife thinks I am more fem than her. I have cut back on my use of this site because of that. I just want to be me and this girl just wants to have as much fun as possible. There is way too much stuff for me to obsess about other than "do I measure up to the girls on Susan's". My therapist doesn't really like my using too much online stuff anyways. He thinks it takes ME away from what is right in front of me. That said, I do get some good info here and I do really appreciate all the members here. I think Susan's helped me immensely.

[JoanneB]

Dressing like a guy.... ratty jeans and an even rattier tee shirt. Not much work too it 

At 6ft tall I do tend to put effort into my presentation. I learned in early childhood that standing out is not a good thing. My early experiments with transitioning confirmed it again. TBH - I also like girlie-girl.

I am only part time. Thanks to effort I do put into an unambiguous female presentation I am seen as and accepted as a woman. I get the occassional odd looks and stares but I try not to let my paranoia control my feelings. I try to think it is only because I am tall, thin, and nicely dressed woman in a world filled with shorter, fatter, not so nicely dressed women

[anjaq]

Well I guess what I would like to "challenge" is that seemingly very common understanding that "being fulltime" or "doing the RLE/RLT" has a lot to do with attire - with how we dress and what clothes we wear and what hairdo and makeup we use. How would you do this in a society that has unisex clothing and attire? How important is it then? I mean of course it is part of it all, but I dont see it as that much a defining point. I transitioned wearing baggy jeans, sneakers and T shirts with funny imprints on them while having dreadlocks - the main thing that changed in that respect was that at some point I had tighter shirts what showed my developing breasts more and I colored my dreadlocks in bright red. Oh and I added earlobe decoration . I think many of the stores I shopped in at that time for clothes did not even really have a girls or boys section

[Jenna Marie]

It means that you present yourself as male all the time, regardless of how other people treat you (you can't always control that!) or whether you look like a "typical" guy (men, and women, can look and act all sorts of ways).

Of course, if you're wondering what it means to a therapist or doctor - which is really the only time this particular label is relevant - it will depend on *that particular* medical professional. Some demand a legal name change or other proof. That may not be reasonable or fair, but it is how it is.

[anjaq]

So what does "present male" or "present female" mean then?

And dont let gender therapists tell you what it means - If they claim you only are in RLE or fulltime or RLT or whatever when you wear a jacket and a tie and have short hair  - or skirts and heels for the ladies - then they should rethink their own gender sterotypes

[Jenna Marie]

Anjaq : That's up to the person, I would think.

I wasn't saying a gender therapist *should* have that right, but it's evident that they do; if it's a situation where someone needs a letter written or a treatment given, the only definition that will matter is that of the person holding all the power in that interaction. (Though I'd advise someone to shop around for a better medical professional if they're being too stereotypical or demanding!)

[kittylover]

So what does "present male" or "present female" mean then?

And dont let gender therapists tell you what it means - If they claim you only are in RLE or fulltime or RLT or whatever when you wear a jacket and a tie and have short hair  - or skirts and heels for the ladies - then they should rethink their own gender sterotypes

exactly this.... Cis women don't always wear skirts  and makeup so why should trans women need to? I dress pretty masculine nowadays but my face pretty much gives me away....I'll put up a picture of me so you can all decide if you think I'm "presenting as male" or not.....[/URL]

[cindy16]

I think this should definitely count as "presenting as male", even if you don't 'pass'.

[anjaq]

Well again - its up to you. Do what you feel good about. You cannot change face or body features or voice in the blink of an eye, so some things just will remain indifferent for a while - if that is ok with you, then its really ok.

[Tessa James]

I appreciate the OP's question and the diverse responses.  This questions points out the unreasonable expectations we and some gatekeepers may have about following standards and all that protocol.  I think it is nonsense to expect there can be any real test we might pass.  Do we show up to every gender therapist appointment in a dress or suit and tie?  Women in the western world pretty much dress in any way they please and most of us are not in the burka or else camp.  I appreciate the feminists efforts that have made this possible for us today.  I wish more men could liberate themselves from straight jackets too.  Gender roles and presentation are very much social constructs IMO.  Just look at the diversity around the cultural globe.  Are you not a full time girl or guy in t-shirt and jeans?  That is pretty much a uniform for much of today's youth and it also puts a kink in that binary lock step too.

My opinion is that this is more a state of mind for us.  I am and was transgender long before I started wearing skirts and dresses full-time.  I feel it is important then to accept your personal definition of where you are at and not assume I can know you by your attire.  I get that part of gatekeeping may be focused on preventing some of us from making a mistake or for the medical world to cover their butts.

For me it is also a milestone that can be celebrated like any meaningful anniversary.  I enjoy knowing this is the beginning of my third year out and full time as the Tessa who once shadowed my daily life and would not rest until she was free.  Part of what I feel is earned in that process is recognition of the formal changes we make.  Yes, living FT to me means a legal name, gender and documents change.  This isn't just for tonight, this is for the rest of my life.

[Lostkitten]

Unpopular opinion, I think full-time is overrated D:

Full-time is when you are your desired gender, full-time. But I got the feeling many forget you are already wearing the same as your desired gender without going to the extremes > _ <.

[Rachel]

I asked my therapist how can I do RLE if I look like a guy? The context is WPATH7 as used by my insurance company and on the surgeons requirements for GCS. My therapist said that should be one of my questions for the surgeon at the consultation. My therapist said it can be unsafe presenting as female and look like a guy in some parts of Philly. Also, she said you do present at group and at the gym so ask how much meets the requirements. The doctor's website listed work ID, name change with drivers license having an F for gender.

A drivers license and work ID, ok I want that. I dress at work with a dress shirt, tie and slacks. So I would have female slacks a blouse and no tie. There are a lot of middle and upper management females that wear female suits. I wear a suit at presentations only so my suit would change a bit. When I am at home I wear jeans and a sweater or shorts and a shirt. When I go to group or the gym I wear female jeans and female top.

The difference in clothes are not hugely different but the connotation people put on them is very large. RLE has me wondering if dressing girlie is more important than dressing in a style that makes you comfortable.

[Cindy]

This always seem to rise some confusion. SOC 7 is quite specific. RLE is a requirement if you want to go for gender surgery, it is not a requirement for HRT. RLE at that time means (according to SOC) living and presenting as your preferred gender in a variety of work and social environments, the background given is so that the client is comfortable in social, work and family interactions as their preferred gender.

Of course it ain't going to work for all, but if you want surgery it probably is reasonable that you are aware of what life will be like and you are happy in it. Possibly if you find RLE is too overwhelming to take then you may well find that the hassles and long term effects of genital surgery are going to be something you may not cope well with.

[Tessa James]

Cindy you are, so nicely, one who can cut through the clutter to clarity.  Yes, there is a big difference in what a clinic will accept for RLE and that surgical green light and what we might consider to be a social full time transition.  Thank you

[kittylover]

I just wanted to add that I didn't ask this because I'm needing to do RLE for hormones or surgery . I STILL haven't decided if I want T and I'm pretty sure I don't want surgery of the down there kind ,although I probably will want the boob removing kind eventually . I just wondered if I can/might soon be able to say I'm full time.