On Hate

[Petti]

The more I learn, the more worried I become. I am learning that the hate transsexual people face is truly on another level. It's like the hate of Blacks, Jews, Gays, Lesbians, and Muslims rolled into one and served to us hot. Add to this, I am even more fearful because I am a person of color, and if white transsexual people didn't get it bad enough, it seems it's even worse for transgirls who are minorities. From what I have learned, you can almost always add more to the numbers on discrimination if you're a trans person of color.

Some of the hate against trans people I am reading truly cuts to the bone. Even the government and insurance companies seem ready to turn a blind eye, and to make it especially insidious, part of trans hate is denying who and what one is, e.g. "You are not a woman." At least if you're a Jew and people hate you for being a Jew they can't deny that you're a Jew. Being told you are not what you are is especially brutal.

This all hurts me deeply. I have been reading blogs and articles, everything from dating forums to bodybuilding forums to feminism blogs and there is a universal hate for trans. Blacks, Whites, Latinos; religious folks, atheists, gamers, football fans, feminists, all seem to agree -  "Let's all hate trans." It pains me to think that I will sacrifice so much to transition only to be met with such fire and venom spit my way and so many people working to deny my womanhood. It's as if one transitions and only a small percentage of people will accept you. It's getting to me to the point where despite how I feel inside, I am questioning myself "I'll never truly be a woman - they are right!"

So I wonder how do you deal with all this? Did it feel like you were jumping from the pan into the fire? Did you ever think to yourself that it's better if you just sit and suffer in your male body and filling your expected male role than transitioning and making yourself open to a world of untold hate.

Thank You

[JoanneB]

How about, a lot of people love seeing and making someone else miserable. Even more so when they know what a herculean effort it is for them to even think about what they are doing, much less attempting to execute it?

Being trans aint for weenies. The easy path is a life of denial, of misery, of unfulfilled dreams. You know, a life like "Normal" people.

As a Pre-Jurasaic dinosaur, I can assure you that being trans today is far far far far easier then it was 40 years ago. Back in those days if you weren't independently wealthy, about your only options were deep deep stealth if you were "A Natural", denial, or suicide. Sure, it is not a perfect world. Depending on where you live how we are are seen and "tolerated"  varies.

For example, I now live just 3 miles from mid-town Manhattan, and about 20 miles from where I was born, which was just across the bay from the World Trade Center. Back in my early 20's when I experimented with transitioning, I got the looks, laughs, and pointing. Thankfully nothing worse. In this oh so PC on the outside "Village" where I now live, I fear for my safety and welfare if I went around presenting as Joanne. A few years back I was living in rural West Virginia, not far from Maryland. Not quite deliverance territory but getting there. While there was when I achieved my life long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman. Sure, there are yahoo's there. But for the most part mostly live and let live people.

The culture is slowly changing for the better. More and more states are accommodating us, giving us legal status. Many others have enacted laws to guarantee our rights to things most take for granted like housing and safety. By which I mean using a restroom where you won't get the snot beat out of you... vs the oppositions view we're only in the ladies to rape some 12 y/o and if we get beaten or even killed using the men's... well "It's God's Will". It will take a while to loose what I call "The Jerry Springer Effect". But there are more and more positive images of trans people making their way into our culture

[Dodie]

Well, hmmmm let me say that I have not experienced any hate from friends or family or even strangers I have met.  Culture is changing. .especially young people.
I had a makeup session today and the girls..all of them loved talking and hearing the story.. more than one of them had a friend that was trans and all the women knew someone who was gay.
I look at it in the exact opposite way .. I have found love real love from those who support me.. The only ones that do not agree with what I am doing or have disappeared are from conservative churches and can't see beyond their little world.
It has never been a better time to be trans.. I have heard this is the decade of the trans person..
I do not dwell on the haters.. if you are on the internet looking at that stuff you should stop now..  We can google anything at all and find it.. good and bad.
Seriously I am in a conservative state and no problems yet.. and if I ever do have a problem with someone then  I just feel sorry for them... they are ignorant and ill informed not too mention small minded nothings to me.
Dodie

[Devlyn]

Well, hmmmm let me say that I have not experienced any hate from friends or family or even strangers I have met.  Culture is changing. .especially young people.
I had a makeup session today and the girls..all of them loved talking and hearing the story.. more than one of them had a friend that was trans and all the women knew someone who was gay.
I look at it in the exact opposite way .. I have found love real love from those who support me.. The only ones that do not agree with what I am doing or have disappeared are from conservative churches and can't see beyond their little world.
It has never been a better time to be trans.. I have heard this is the decade of the trans person..
I do not dwell on the haters.. if you are on the internet looking at that stuff you should stop now..  We can google anything at all and find it.. good and bad.
Seriously I am in a conservative state and no problems yet.. and if I ever do have a problem with someone then  I just feel sorry for them... they are ignorant and ill informed not too mention small minded nothings to me.
Dodie

▲▲▲▲▲ This. Every single word of what she said.

[stephaniec]

▲▲▲▲▲ This. Every single word of what she said.

ditto

[Petti]

As always I thank you all for helping me to feel better about myself. The amount of concerns, questions and doubts I have right now could fill volumes. I am sorry that I come to these forums with so much doubt, many questions and rambling posts. 

I went to therapy yesterday and the things I said to her had her ready to admit me to the hospital, but I talked her out of it. I just feel stuck between a rock and a hard place of being this "man" and being full of disgust because of it, or being the woman I am and getting hate because of that. So frustrating!  Joanne, Dodie and Devlyn I look at your avatars and I say if those are actually your pics all three of you look like gg. I am not saying that to flatter, but it's the simple fact of it all in my eyes. With my 6' tall body and sharp masculine face I fear that I will never "pass" and the hate of the world will come crashing down on me because of it. I am indeed very afraid to be murdered or beaten or of being screamed at for using the women's room, so when I see so much hate, then I look in the mirror at my testosterone ravaged body my heart just fills with sadness. But still, even if I could pass 100%, I fear that I will always be nothing more than a woman with an asterisk, this no matter how I feel inside.

Joanne, you tell me being trans ain't for weenies, and you are absolutely correct. Sadly, I am scared little wuss, I am weak-minded and I am coming to learn that if I am to transition my biggest obstacle isn't voice, hair, fashion, or makeup but instead "transitioning" out of this intense fear that I have. That's part of the reason I come to these boards to read and post, to slowly chip away at my concerns and fear. You have helped me, and others have helped me in this thread and in others. Please do know that I am very thankful.

As an edit thank you as well Stephanie.

[Devlyn]

As always I thank you all for helping me to feel better about myself. The amount of concerns, questions and doubts I have right now could fill volumes. I am sorry that I come to these forums with so much doubt, many questions and rambling posts. 

I went to therapy yesterday and the things I said to her had her ready to admit me to the hospital, but I talked her out of it. I just feel stuck between a rock and a hard place of being this "man" and being full of disgust because of it, or being the woman I am and getting hate because of that. So frustrating!  Joanne, Dodie and Devlyn I look at your avatars and I say if those are actually your pics all three of you look like gg. I am not saying that to flatter, but it's the simple fact of it all in my eyes. With my 6' tall body and sharp masculine face I fear that I will never "pass" and the hate of the world will come crashing down on me because of it. I am indeed very afraid to be murdered or beaten or of being screamed at for using the women's room, so when I see so much hate, then I look in the mirror at my testosterone ravaged body my heart just fills with sadness. But still, even if I could pass 100%, I fear that I will always be nothing more than a woman with an asterisk, this no matter how I feel inside.

Joanne, you tell me being trans ain't for weenies, and you are absolutely correct. Sadly, I am scared little wuss, I am weak-minded and I am coming to learn that if I am to transition my biggest obstacle isn't voice, hair, fashion, or makeup but instead "transitioning" out of this intense fear that I have. That's part of the reason I come to these boards to read and post, to slowly chip away at my concerns and fear. You have helped me, and others have helped me in this thread and in others. Please do know that I am very thankful.

As an edit thank you as well Stephanie.

Charmer! That's me, the picture is from 2013. My hair is longer now, but don't worry, it's still untamed!

Hugs, Devlyn

[ImagineKate]

Petti,

I am a trans woman of color myself and violence and hate concerns me. It also doesn't help that I'm from the transphobic and homophobic Caribbean. I mean I grew up listening to dancehall music where Buju banton and shabba were singing about openly killing gays. I don't know if/when I will go back to my birth country even to visit as I fear violence. At least in the USA I can be safe and protect myself. But I've been learning from news sources that even in the Caribbean transgender people are stepping out, seeking treatment (transition) and not being afraid anymore. That is great news.

Social transition I am learning is one of the hardest parts of it. More so than pain from hair removal or getting my voice to where I want it.

What do I do to cope? I sure as heck don't know. This place has helped and encouraged me a lot though. Small wins also boost my confidence such as when I find out I'm eligible for surgeries I want, hair removal makes my face look better, I get ma'am or miss unexpectedly, hormones work better than I expected or when I get a positive reaction from people I come out to. Especially my family who with the exception of my dad has been fully accepting.

I look at Jowelle DeSouza and all the negativity that she encountered and still encounters. But she doesn't give two hoots about the haters and she has a lot of people by her side now. She's definitely a role model for me as she's from Trinidad (where I'm from).

[Emily R]

Petti,

Like ImagineKate, I am from an Island in the Caribbean and also latino or hispanic in which the people's mind is frozen in time going back to the 50's! and although have lived most of my life in the US, the community in which I live still retains many of those values which are greatly transphobic and homophobic.

My wife and I have been talking about our future and that may include relocating to a more tolerant or accepting city which would allow me to transition openly, but I am forging forward slowly and I may not transition for years sort of what JeanneB has done; Not that my mind and heart does not want to scream "I am a Woman" but realistically i cannot afford to come out at this time.

I have felt discriminated because of heritage, but the fact is that no one is 100% open minded, we accept what we know and become fearful of the unknown or different such as transgenders, this is true of every race, tribe or group.  it is just a defense mechanism that has help preserve lives for centuries.

My easy answer:  "Put the Jeannie back in the bottle" but if you are like most of us, you will lose many nights of sleep, reading, researching and coming with a plan that will work for YOU, as there is not a "One fits All" solution.

My sincere best wishes in your quest and oh BTW if and when you find a perfect solution please let me know!

Emily

[Eva Marie]

I am not a trans woman of color; I can only relate my own experience out in the world as a white trans woman. I am quite aware of what the statistics sadly say about violence toward TWOC.

I live in an outlying suburb of L.A. that is very, very conservative (not all of California is liberal). I have never seen or pegged anyone as trans in the two years that I have lived in this city; I seem to be the only one here.

With that said I have never felt threatened by violence or perceived any kind of a threat toward me as I go about my day to day activities. I seem to be accepted as an ordinary woman, the same as any other woman.

I recently went to visit my daughter that lives in Oklahoma and the reception I got there was just a bit more frosty than what I usually get here at home. I guess that more people there were pegging me as trans (?) Still there was no violence or threat of violence and I never felt in any kind of danger, and nothing was said to me, and no rudeness was shown toward me.

I am NOT saying that violence against trans people doesn't happen - it does, it is a fact of life. If i'm at the wrong place at the wrong time around the wrong people I know full well it could happen to me. For that reason I am very careful of what places I go to, where I park, and who I go with - the same precautions that other women take.

I knew going into this that I would change from being seen as an unremarkable male to someone that would likely attract attention. I considered this and I decided for me that I would not let the fear of violence run my life. I'm now out and am living as the real me.

This is an individual decision that you'll have to work through yourself, considering where you live and the attitudes of the people that you encounter each day. As someone else said you might limit your reading of the scary stuff on the internet; and I'd suggest that you connect to some local trans support groups and talk to the people there about their experiences out and about in your local community. I think that doing this would give you a more realistic snapshot of the experience that you may encounter if/when you go full time.

[beccacurls]

Petti, I definitely understand all what you're saying. Being trans person of color really does bring with it a host of issues. Being trans alone is difficult and the added dimension just complicates things.

I too read a lot of the blogs that you mentioned and to see the hate is astounding. What bothers me the most is the fact that many hold unto the stereotypes are universal truths about us.

I would be lying if I said that I am not over any of this but I think a great way of dealing with all of this is by surrounding yourself with people who actually care and support you. I know that's easier said than done and it may not even ever be achieveable. However, when you are around people who genuinely care about you, other people's opinion begin to not really matter. Even if you cannot find people, just try to surround yourself with positive energy, whether through hobbies, or career pursuits, or whatever brings you joy. Don't focus on the negatives.

Sorry I could not be of more help. :/

[beccacurls]

ImagineKate, I remember reading one of your responses and I was a little bit curious. After reading this response, it all makes sense now.

Sorry for the off topic post by the way.

[ImagineKate]

ImagineKate, I remember reading one of your responses and I was a little bit curious. After reading this response, it all makes sense now.

Sorry for the off topic post by the way.

Hmm. I wonder what? If you don't feel comfortable saying here please inbox me.

[Zumbagirl]

So I wonder how do you deal with all this? Did it feel like you were jumping from the pan into the fire? Did you ever think to yourself that it's better if you just sit and suffer in your male body and filling your expected male role than transitioning and making yourself open to a world of untold hate.

Thank You

In my case it was simple, I removed myself from the haters. The haters are going to hate no matter what so why stick around and subject myself, or yourself, to mistreatment? There is a whole big giant world out there of people who are NOT  haters, so why let a vocal few bother you? Over the years I have made friends with some of the most interesting and eclectic variety of friends from fundamentalist christians to devout muslims, and you know what? I was able to get along and have a good friendship. On the other side of this, I did my thing, my gender transition, so once I was done and looking for new friends I didn't think it was necessary to wear the "trans" thing on my sleeves. I simply made new friends as my new self and no one was the wiser. I have quiet an enjoyable life to be honest.

[Petti]

I appreciate the replies. I like reading about how people deal with the hate and intolerance out there. Sometimes, often times really, I do fear for my safety after I fully transition, that is if I ever do fully transition. When it comes to transitioning, it sometimes feels like I would be trading one set of problems for a whole host of new problems, and that can get me down. It's a lesser of two evils thing. Of course, I am not saying being trans is evil, but that the hate slung our way is. 

With respect to all the hate and intolerance out there, I really do hope society can move towards a more enlightened state. As Joanne said earlier, being trans is easier today than it was 40 years ago and reading that gave me some hope. It's true that you all really do help to give me hope in these posts I make.

[ImagineKate]

Do realize that some people simply will never change. Look at where we are with civil rights.

Yes, here in the US we have a black President now but there are many people who will say really mean and hateful things about him. I don't agree with him on policy but I like the fact that he could be elected. But there are people who cannot come to terms with that. And that I don't see changing. There will ALWAYS be people who have problems with any sort of diversity.

But the good news is that we can turn the tide enough to get a majority of people on board with us. In reality we should look for advancing the cause of freedom and self determination. Society should always be respectful of others and their rights and freedoms and not look to take any of it away. Celebrities are doing it but even ordinary people are doing it by simply living their lives.

My philosophy is "don't tread on anyone."

[Jayne]

It's all a matter of perspective, if you look for the good you'll see the good everywhere.
We may be a minority but so are the haters, every day there are more of us and less of them 

[alexbb]

ditto

yup! and the more people we are open with, normal with, happy with, the more it will just become normal. chilling like it aint no thang! the first time people see something new its strange and intereting, the 10th time, not so much. it migt feel like youre being thrown onto the front line in a culture war you didnt choose, but screw it,  being proud is step 1, being glad is step 2.
im glad i came out.
i mean come on, smiling? laughing? dresses?? feeling good! yes please!

[Obfuskatie]

If I may be blasé a moment;
  "And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
   Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
   I shake it off.  I shake it off."

On a more serious note, women in general are accosted and assaulted.  Transwomen sometimes experience reactionary violence and the usual stuff targeted at women.  However, there are ways to mitigate chances of this happening.  I am not a statistic, neither is anyone on this board.  Probability won't cause a hate crime to happen.
Another problem I have with the statistical relevance of all this is that transpeople are so much smaller a population than ciswomen.  Plus, there are a lot more cisfemale victims of assault when comparing the two totals.  While the sample size of the collected data sets are staggering, it's hard to calculate an accurate estimate of the population size for victims of assault, not to mention the problems determining the population size of transgender people, closeted, stealth and out, as well as whether the transperson was originally assaulted for being perceived as female or trans.  The skewed statistics measured on guesses, conjecture, estimates and wild stabs in the dark, are daunting but hardly relevant to your everyday life.  What's alarming is how many hate crimes are not prosecuted when it comes to acts against transpeople or gay people.  But bigots aren't new.

Do your best to stay safe.  Learn some self defense techniques.  Hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.  Stuff happens.  And Good luck. 
And if you need to cheer yourself up, look at pictures/videos of cute baby animals: it's proven to cheer even the most unhappy of people when they witness something totally adorbs.

     Hugs,
- Katie

[Dread_Faery]

You should read black girl dangerous, they have a lot of articles by QTWoC and reading about their experiences may help. Most of the replies in this thread are like too white for words.