Would stealth be possible?

[ScottyMac]

Say you
-transitioned/started hormones at 16.
-had all the surgeries done by 18
- passed completely

Would complete stealth be possible? I ask because people seem to say it is impossible these days, someone will always know, you'll live in fear of being outed, your essentially lying to everyone.

If stealth isn't possible, I don't think I'll even bother transitioning. And I really don't want to be a female, but to me that seems better than being an out transsexual in today's world. I don't want to be "different", just a normal guy. And if I can't have that, I just don't see the point to life as a transgender male or a female.

I just don't want being transgender to be the thing that defines me to others.

[Matt A]

Unfortunately, as far as I know in most countries surgeons will not operate any sort of gender related surgery before you're 118, however hormones at 16 are something some very lucky people get.

Even if you started hormones at 50 and had surgery done at 60, why wouldn't you be able to pass? It may be less likely, the results aren't always as good at a more mature age, but that doesn't mean you can't pass.

And if you pass, then you could probably stealth.

It's never an easy journey, butt don't be discouraged because you think you won't pass or be stealth, when youu see yourself now (presuming you're pre transition) you won't look how you want to, and that's because you're pre transition.

You'll never know until you find out, but you need to be 99% certain it's the path for you before you take it.


All the best
-Matt

[ScottyMac]

I'm getting hormones in 2-3 months, and I suppose 19 then as I'll be getting the surgeries ASAP.
I am just scared I'll end up this man woman hybrid weird freak for my whole life that disgusts everyone.

[Ms Grace]

Don't sacrifice who you want to be because of your current perception of peoples/social prejudices. I know myself that was one of many reasons I chose not to transition in 1991. Sadly, not transitioning for those reasons did not make my dysphoria go away.The world (well, Australia, at least) has changed a lot in it's acceptance and attitudes towards trans people. One can only hope that the trend continues, that issues of stealth will be moot, that trans people will be accepted as the gender they identify as.

[ScottyMac]

I don't want to be accepted as a trans person, I just want to be seen as another guy, nothing different. It is great there is more acceptance though.
I suppose I've always been someone who hated attention, was never garish and out there and different. And now I'm being forced to be by being a transgender.

[Cindy]

Scotts, I know a lot of trans men, even had drinks with Buck angel.!  Most trans men pass so well that if they wash no one need know their biological past.  Hiding from Internet searches is another story. You just need to be careful of what you ever post on social media, not worry about what people think, cisguys don't!

Not worrying is the trick.

[Tossu-sama]

I started at 21 and had everything I wanted done at the age of 24 (I'm in Finland so things work differently here). I'm able to go around, passing all the time and no one knows about my past nor do they need to know. I'm a regular guy, maybe a tad shorter and a late bloomer when it comes to stuff like beard etc but I'm able to go stealth.

[FTMax]

I started hormones at 25. I'll be having top surgery just after my 26th birthday this year. I passed as male (fully clothed) a little more than half the time before starting hormones, and now 100% of the time as long as I'm not naked.

Obviously there are a lot of things that hormones will help with as far as passing. But I think it is equally important, if not more important, to adopt a male way of viewing and interacting with the world if being stealth is your goal. There are a lot of micro and macro level social differences that I think will out you way faster than not being able to grow a beard, or being a little shorter.

[JoanneB]

Say you
-transitioned/started hormones at 16.
-had all the surgeries done by 18
- passed completely

Would complete stealth be possible? I ask because people seem to say it is impossible these days, someone will always know, you'll live in fear of being outed, your essentially lying to everyone.

If stealth isn't possible, I don't think I'll even bother transitioning. And I really don't want to be a female, but to me that seems better than being an out transsexual in today's world. I don't want to be "different", just a normal guy. And if I can't have that, I just don't see the point to life as a transgender male or a female.

I just don't want being transgender to be the thing that defines me to others.

The simple fact is EVERYONE has a paper trail. Birth records, Government ID numbers, school records, school mates, neighbors. All manner of people that love to gossip. In the modern world of "Social" media, Six Degrees of Separation is likely down to four. In this day and age, living "Off the Grid" so to speak is extremely difficult.

So there IS a chance if you are living and working in the world like most other people. How much of a chance? It depends. Move several states away, keep a low profile, have a job that does not require any accreditation with an old name attached to anything associate with it. Be really good at keeping your story straight and totally verifiable. Then, pretty low. But still, in a mountainside storage facility somewhere is a disk or a tape with the truth. Old bytes never die, they simply get spooled off. In the age we're living in now; storage is cheap, as in nearly free. So likely on-line in some database those records are alive and well.

[Emmaleigh]

The simple fact is EVERYONE has a paper trail. Birth records, Government ID numbers, school records ... in a mountainside storage facility somewhere is a disk or a tape with the truth. Old bytes never die, they simply get spooled off. In the age we're living in now; storage is cheap, as in nearly free. So likely on-line in some database those records are alive and well.

Of course, those old records on tape or disk in a mountain vault storage facility are extremely difficult for the average desk clerk at the DMV or your insurance provider to get hold of. BUT, a paper trail of the changes you've made - name, gender-marker, etc. - will certainly/most likely be attached to your current files, regardless of any court rulings to the contrary, and therefore quite readily available to that same clerk or overseer or 'gatekeeper'. And, as stated, storage nowadays is dirt cheap, so your old records may never actually get physically moved to that faraway vault, simply backed-up into it. Plus, ALL your info is constantly being traded and sold and reported to a vast number of data-mine warehouses and recyclers and resellers (your government, insurance company, bank, landlord, car dealer... they all make money selling your data)... and THOSE records are never deleted or over-written, simply added to. You may get your past and your change records 'sealed' by a court, but that seal does not trickle out to the data industry. True Stealth? Not happening!

[ScottyMac]

So somewhere there will be a file saying "X Smith" changed their gender and name and became "Y Smith"?

Crap

And people can easily access this?

[Tessa James]

So somewhere there will be a file saying "X Smith" changed their gender and name and became "Y Smith"?

Crap

And people can easily access this?

I don't want to rain on anyones parade but yes for me that is true.  The documentation I provided to get my name change is part of the legal and public court record.  My name and gender has been changed on many other records such as my bank, credit cards, social security card and drivers license.  Oldies like me have a trail 60+ years long.  Still, it is perfectly reasonable to want to just blend in and be that guy you really are.  As others have noted, my friends who are trans men pass very well.  I believe more of the challenge will be to accept ones self.  You may not want or need to transition but if you are transgender the likelihood of reoccurring dysphoria is rather high.  Transitioning is often a time when we have a real focus on trans issues but I know people who transitioned many years ago and they go about their lives without transgender being on their minds 24/7.  It is a process and journey more than a definable goal for some of us.

[Ptero]

Hi Scotty,

I understand that you want to live like a "normal" person. But I'm not sure any "normal" person exists...
Let's take another point of view : what is less painful ? Being forced to be a girl/women your entire life or having to deal with some people knowing that you transitioned ?

I mean, if you stay a girl/women, everybody in your everyday life will consider you are female, call you "madam" or your birth name for example. And if you have issues dealing with your body, you will be dealing with it 7/24. And perhaps you can have the feeling that you are not true to yourself, which is not a good one. But nobody would never ask you stupid questions about transidentity or make stupid hurting comments (at least not the same they could make if you transition. Because trust me, dumb people always find a way to show they are dumb)

If you transition and pass, you will have to deal with people knowing the truth and I'm not the best to say how it is (but I think a lot of people here will be able to tell you what you will have to face), but everybody will consider you a man in your every day life. And you can probably have a body very close to which you wish you had from birth.

I'm not saying "you should transition" or "don't do that" ! It's of course your own decision and it's a difficult one. I'm just saying that feeling your gender doesn't fit with your anatomy is not something you can choose. The only thing you can choose is what you do with your life. And perhaps it could help you to think about what could be your every day life. Everyone has tough days or situation they have to face in their life. We must all chose which ones are the less painful when we can. And there is no way, being anybody, that you can live without experiencing any very hard time in your life. That's what makes happy moments so precious !

About "being transgender to be the thing that defines me to others", decent people don't consider being transgender, male, female or intersex as the thing that defines anybody 

Also something worries me in your post : you say you don't see "the point to life as a transgender male or a female". Can I kindly suggest you to find somebody to talk about that and help you with these dark thoughts ?

[warmbody28]

you could go stealth completely but you may get tired of it after a while.

[JoanneB]

So somewhere there will be a file saying "X Smith" changed their gender and name and became "Y Smith"?

Crap

And people can easily access this?

Yep. It was done by the court. Therefore part of the public record. In fact, just to get a name change there is an notice of the application that MUST be published in a local paper of record for the world to see.

So, public court record and printed in a newspaper

[Emmaleigh]

So, public court record and printed in a newspaper

And all stored in multiple computer files in multiple locations and shared willy-nilly hither and yon.
"Welcome to the New Age, the New Age" (Imagine Dragons, Radioactive)

I feel 'stealth' can probably only be carried out on a personal, day to day basis, one on one. And I feel, in reality, this is the level that has the most personal emotional impact and import.
Not that I can speak from experience, only from some knowledge of how things work, and a healthy bit of paranoia.

[Jessica Merriman]

Complete stealth is just an illusion. Some may think it is possible, but it is not. I have worked for Federal, county, city and State government and nothing is sacred. In days long past, yes you could live stealth. Today, no way in heck. Sorry, that is the curse of the digital age.

[ScottyMac]

Damn it

What's even the point then

I want to transition to male, not transgender male.

I don't want people to know and to be secretly looking for signs I was born female, thinking "its not really a male", making fun of me for it... Looks like I'm going to have to kill myself lol, I can never even be perceived as a cis male, let alone be one.

[Ayden]

There is a point, brother.

I started when I was 23 and had my top surgery when I was 26. I pass in daily life and the only person that knows that I interact with is my partner. The fact that I am living my life happily as a man and I am treated as such by everyone is all the reason I can offer. Being happy and being ourselves is why we even start on this road.

Yes, theoretically some person in the government offices and the immigration offices know that I'm trans. But, they have never seen me, I don't know them and I honestly doubt they have the time to worry about one person. Why should I worry that some person in Washington or Tokyo might look at my id and say "hey! That's a trans person!"? I worked in a pharmacy for years and frankly, I didn't have time to register more than a last name and the name of the medication I was filling. They could have been purple cat people for all I cared.

My point is, yes, in theory some person will be filing your name change or gender marker change documents at the courthouse and say "oh, this persons XYZ". Does it really matter? People think things about each other all the time. I saw a guy today and I couldn't help but think he needed a better skin care routine. You can live stealth in your daily life. Just because a court document exists doesn't mean every person you interact with will immediately track down your court records.

Please don't even joke about suicide. You can be just a guy. I am, and I'm a very noticeable minority where I live. There are many stealth members here that live their lives and have no problems.

[MacG]

I would suggest addressing the fear and loathing underneath. Whatever you decide you should do, I think this fear of trans-ness and "man woman hybrid" is getting in your way.
I carried similar fear for a whole lot of years. Did me no favors. I'm transitioning in my 40s since I waited so long to overcome fear. I like being a little unique, but never, ever wanted to be "the weirdo."
Some people think I'm a freak, I suppose, but I've mainly found people are respectful and supportive.

I think that it is possible to live a stealth life... After transition. Depending on what country (and state) you live in, there will be records, yes. But that doesn't mean you can't live your daily life without constant reminders. And I absolutely don't think it's a lie.