Ex husband de-transitioning

[GoldDustWoman]

Hi , everyone ,
I hate for this to be my first post here , but I need a little help and this was one of the FEW places that de transitioning is even ok to talk about and it looked to be friendly to war torn GG's 

My ex husband and I live on the west coast 1000 miles apart . He was always beautiful and androgynous - very sleek . STRAIGHT outta Hollywood ( literally ) , my rockstar beauty . I have always been a straight woman that adored androgynous types.  Usually folks in the arts . I 'd grown up with two pro drag queen 1st cousins so a man in make up was nothing . I always knew my pretty Cali boy dressed also . Still didn't mind . Had a great job as a master winemaker( even is credited with a discovery he received a patent for in that field)  adored myself and our daughter. and we both had been the bad boy and bad girl , we really fit.

  10 years ago things began to escalate from dressing ( we would go out in public together easy )to where he just decided he was a woman and had always been and how DARE I take that away from him forcing him to be male ?? I reminded him HE asked ME to marry him.  Well he decided he wanted to transition , so we live together while I go through this hell ,, all the usual loss wives go through when her husband does this for real .

He then proceeded to out himself by showing up at work FULLY dressed at an open house his winery was having without letting the boss know and they were expecting 400 clients and he got fired .. That was 5+ years ago , then he decided that to be fully trans that he must go out on his own to be happy.

I was very upset but gracefully let him go because I knew deep down I just was not gay . He has been on HRT now for years, and was about to have bottom surgery when he came to see me at Christmas 3 years and 2 months ago, yes I gave in. Then he starts to re-think this whole thing  . He is in TERRIBLE shape and misses me very much , our daughter and his life with us . I cannot let him come back . Easing off hormones has nearly made ME crazy much less him plus they have  had the visual effect on his face of literally MELTING it . He looks bizarre . I am nearly sure he self medicates to have the melting look . Although he swears he is under a trans Dr.s care ( yes the Dr. is trans too he says )

He is living the all too familiar life that some trans live , like cliche'. He is 51, lives with his mom in San Francisco, has been jobless for years since that incident , sells dope on the side and sells his possessions for spending money , spends hours on the phone day and night with me . Does what his mom tells him who sometimes restricts his access to his own car . Cannot GET a job . Cannot rent a room and his mom makes him leave for hours at a time when she has company . The reason I know is he sits down in a chair at the local Rite Aid Pharmacy and calls me. Really crazy life.

    I was absolutely poverty stricken when he left to be happy but I went on with life . I have my own job and apt in Seattle and go do things with people I've met and daughter is happy being involved in the music industry up here  .  I've also refused to visit him at his screaming mothers . She enables his life and I wasn't going t make it easier on him by visiting. Tonight he finally asked for help to leave . I told him the ONLY way I would visit him was if he entered some kind of  life skills program, that I cannot support him and he cannot just come  home  . Seriously this whole thing- partial- transition( no surgery )  and now de-trans has rendered him almost totally socially handicapped and ..it's like he is injured some way .

What sort of programs would I need to look for so that he can at least live on his own again employed ?? He wants to live near me and be employed but is willing to go into a help situation in San Francisco IF I will visit him . I told him it would take at least a year or being employed and on his own before I would consider letting him back in the house . Needless to say I have ZERO contact with any trans anything or anyone anymore and I am not ever going back to that . They( the trans people he knows )  have been pretty rough on him since he decided to de trans. This is almost like helping a 5-6 year homeless person try to get it together again at 51 . I don't know if it is possible . I will always love him and be his friend but he has to do some things before I would ever consider letting him return . 
How would you all handle this . He wants a life other than living with his mother .Basically come home .

[cindy16]

Hi GoldDustWoman,

Welcome to Susan's.

Sorry, there's no advice here, but just my frank opinion on how you are going about this. I don't know what kind of programs for skills / employment should your ex-husband be looking for, but I must say that you are dealing with this whole situation very well. You are absolutely clear in what you want, and you are going about it the right way, acknowledging your love for your ex-husband and your desire to help him but at the same time prioritizing your own and your daughter's well-being too and wanting your ex-husband to be independent first.
Also, it is admirable that you have come here to ask questions and are not judgmental about your ex-husband for being trans (and frankly, dealing with it in a somewhat messy manner) and despite having a bad experience with how other trans folk treated him.

I hope everything works out well for you.

Take care
Cindy

[GoldDustWoman]

Thank you Cindy ,
I think a BIG part of it is that I have had some years to get back to halfway normal again . I wasn't OK for a long time but enough years have passed so I can  talk about it without seething anger or crying for days like at first .

I knew my question would be a hard one for anyone to give advice but if nothing else ,someone, somewhere will read this and see themselves. You never know what life is throw at you.

He just finally decided on his own that he was  a male person with a very strong female side . I already knew . HE had to come to terms with it.  He just got caught up in alot of the one upmanship of who is more femme ( spent alot of time on Facebook arguing with others about it) .  Then gender became all consuming .   

I do not mind if he continues to dress anyway that he wants , but he has to face reality that he has been out of the job market for over 5 years and at 51 is not easy for ANYONE to get a job with a gap in work that big . Plus his mom enabling him to do whatever he wants as long as he waits on her . I finally had to refuse to talk to him as it was a waste of my time - of anyone's time really . 

I feel stupid but I may go down to the DHS office here and ask around about re entry programs.. not really sure other than telling the truth what happened to him for them to be able to help me find the right place .  I have prepared him for the fact he may have to go live in some kind of home/halfway house type enviornment (sp) but I would take care of his cat for  however long it takes . He is scared if he leaves his mother will take his cat to the pound . I've called the police twice in the years he has been gone when he has called and all I could hear was her screaming at him in the background . I am long done with her also, he may as well have had surgery , she had emasculated him long before I met him and is probably at the root of his confusion . Thank you though for seeing that I have tried REALLY hard to get myself together again . Not much family left anymore so I appreciate the compliment 

[Muffinheart]

I've thought on your post all afternoon, and reread it two and three times now. I feel for you. I wish I had advice. Maybe, I know this won't help, but let me describe where I'm at:
One night in mid 2007, the angst, anger, and utter disappointment in myself made me do something I never knew I was capable of: I walked out on my ex wife and daughter. Because of that one day, I have lost contact with my daughter. Gone was my family, friends, my house, my job, my earning potential and my future retirement. Many women will say I was selfish, and an idiot, and why did I marry this woman in the first place.
If it weren't for my daughter having been part of my life for 5 years, I would want one wish: that I could take back the proposal and the pain I caused my wife.
But I can't change that, all I can hope one day is she'll somehow try to understand I was a really f'd up person. I got married because of social pressure - everyone my age was married with kids. I didn't get married for the right reasons. Being married those years were a lie - I feel I cheated on my wife because I wasn't honest about who I was.
I long for a chat wih her, and I hope and pray one day I'll see my daughter.
At the same time, I know my ex is likely embarrassed by me. Ashamed. Angry.
I didn't leave her poverty stricken, she has been able to move on without me. I helped as much as I could and they are covered financially.
I have a new life now, happier now than I've been in awhile.

I get what you're feeling. As a woman, no doubt my/our world is confusing. I have a lot of admiration for you opening up. If you were my ex, I'd be doing all I could to repair the relationship with you and your daughter.

I wish you lots of hope and good luck.

[GoldDustWoman]

Thank you Muffin for being so kind and that you took the time to read it . I am going to TRY ( key word is try ) to find a place for him that takes others who have lost their way and help him try to assimilate into society again . I have made him no promises . Just to try . He says what you did in that he was a very f'ed up person . A very pretty boy raised in The Hollywood Hills / Malibu areas who lived very fast and very hard and loved every minute of it, I now want to weep when I see this broken person on skype . The only difference is that he would tell anyone that he wanted to marry me the moment he saw me and when he knew I didn't care how he dressed , had his hair or make up , he loved me even more and didn't think it would ever be really an issue . 
Even our friends were sad when we split because we just always adored each other .

His Facebook page  once a billboard for trans rights is now a shrine to me . He does not drag our daughter into this at all on social media . Tells people we are engaged again etc . and his old friends asking whats going on and his trans friends telling him I am forcing him to do this somehow.

It's tough . I don't want a fight with anyone .  It got bad when he told people that we were engaged and getting married again . He has asked me if I would consider marriage . I said not until all of the above I stated before had been met . I am not engaged to anyone , but its also none of their business .

One day you WILL get back with your daughter again .     

[cindy16]

Hi GoldDustWoman,

Although I am not really comfortable with linking 'emasculation' to how someone behaves with someone else, I do find it sad how it seems your ex-husband's mother as well as friends /acquaintances on FB and elsewhere (both trans and cis) seem to have had too much of an influence on his thinking and actions. I hope that he can get over it at some point.

I am pre-everything MtF, much younger, married with no kids yet, and very carefully trying to figure out how to preserve my marriage and career even if/when I transition, and yet I do get this feeling and also hear my wife saying that I have been unfair to her. She also acknowledges that what I am going through is difficult and in a way unfair to me too, but I do feel sometimes it may have been better not to drag her along into this. So if this is the situation even by taking it slow and rationally trying to work out each step, I cannot even begin to imagine how bad it would be for her or others around me if I were to suddenly let all 'hell break loose'.

You have gone through that and stayed strong, so kudos to you!

[GoldDustWoman]

Oh I certainly understand that word is very  strong but terribly  this applies with his mom .. this could happen to anyone tho and certainly not the cause for others need to transition . This is just his situation . His father shot himself to death when my ex was 9 and his mom partially took over the dads role  and partially made HIM the husband and frankly if she were my spouse I probably wouldn't be here either,, and ahem,, I have said so publicly too  . LORD you wanna talk about emotional abuse.. He is afraid and self esteem is - 10. I feel bad when she does catch him speaking to me you have NEVER heard such screaming like a banshee . She is ill needless to say .  I am going over her head as she s a waste of time and of no help .

My only wish is that people who are confused about  gender, their sexuality , whatever didn't feel such pressure to marry , that people are bachelors/ bachelorettes for many many reasons and its Ok if you don't get married and more importantly no ones business . It gives you all the time on the world to sort things out . I think he is truly the third gender and that's ok too .

He is at his therapist appt now trying to coordinate with me to get out of there and into a re entry program . Thankfully he has just about stopped facebook .. that was very detrimental  and we are planning some short visits between here and there WITHOUT mom shouting at us just to see if we can even live within 20 miles of one another . I am the apprehensive one here ....

[cindy16]

It really sounds like a nightmare what you have said about your ex-MIL, but it's good to hear that your ex-husband is finally making efforts to improve himself. I hope the situation continues to improve for both of you.

Regarding the usage of certain words, well the physical and social meanings of 'emasculation' may be the same and may be disturbing for cis men, but out here among trans folk we hardly ever use that term. Probably because the physical meaning has a positive connotation for many of us and is better referred to through surgical terms, and socially we have many other things to worry about.
The same goes for a term like 'third gender' - it is rare to see it being used here. Those who do not identify as male or female use terms like androgyne, non-binary, genderqueer, genderfluid among others, so once you start counting beyond two genders, there really is no limit where to stop.
I am not trying to nitpick, but just trying to help with some terms which may ease conversations around here. Most people would understand what a tough situation you are in and would empathize but sometimes little things like these may put them off.

About my own situation, well I did not marry under any pressure. I genuinely loved my wife and still do, and I have always been attracted only to women. That probably hid my own gender issues from myself until recently, and might make things more difficult for me here in India where I live, which is much less liberal and accepting than the US west coast for example. Anyway, I'll deal with it as it comes.

[flowersformiceandmen]

Hi GoldDustWoman,

I've read through this entire thread so far and, first of all, I would like to thank you for sharing your story which must not have been easy to tell. I appreciate seeing things from another perspective and your story has certainly done that. Please take some time to read my story.

I, myself, am 23 years old and single. I've been questioning my gender identity for the past few years and I have realized one thing, it would not be fair for me to be in a relationship with another person at this moment in time for the simple reason that I am still working out who I am and what I want. There are times when I come across a girl or guy that I like and begin to question this principle but I do still think it is much better to be single rather than wading through confusion with someone else. Having said that, I mean no disrespect to transgender people who have chosen to get married or are in some kind of intimate relationship. I suppose it helps to know that there is someone close to support you throughout those times of turmoil when questioning your gender identity or experiencing gender dysphoria.

Like your ex-husband, I made some similar mistakes. I decided to self-medicate using a testosterone-blocker I purchased online and used these for nearly 1 year under the supervision of a general practitioner. However, there were problems that I did not want to acknowledge. One being self-medication, the others being the conscious distancing of myself between friends and family. Eventually, my situation reached such dire straits that I had to step back and really take a good look at my life. I don't think I would have been able to do this without the help of my immediate family and friends. I've stopped self-medicating and I realize now that although my intention was to beautify myself, I had unintentionally harmed myself.

I suspect the same may be true for your ex-husband. You mention that his face seemed melted when you saw him on one occasion, possibly due to self-medication or dangerous street cosmetic procedures. I would like to think that he too intended to make himself more feminine yet hurt himself. This is important to remember, as to most others it might seem like self-harm rather than beautification. This is just my opinion on what you have mentioned in this thread.

I don't have any precise advice to offer you aside from suggesting that your husband should want to get better and there must be no question of this. I gathered the impression that you think he is impulsive and doesn't think before acting, would he behave similarly now despite having suffered? Even a small instance of self-sabotage to his recovery could indicate the contrary. I would also suggest that he work on a structured recovery program with the help of a LGBT-friendly medical professional; someone who could guide him to becoming independent, living out on his own, getting AND keeping a job. I don't know where to find such people in North America but I'm sure such roles exist. Finally, I would suggest taking things slowly with him. This could be a tumultuous time for all four of you; your daughter, your mother-in-law and, of course, the two of you. For this reason, I would just like to reiterate that you do need help from someone else who is outside of the picture and can offer an objective perspective, as well as provide the support that you need.


Thank you for reading,
flowersformiceandmen.