Do I need new friends? Severe misgendering (possible trigger warning)

[AndrewB]

I experienced something similar with my dad, just openly using the wrong name and pronouns while my mother quickly made the pronoun transition for me. Eventually, after about a month and a half I guess, he started using the right name whenever he could catch himself. I think it started on Christmas Eve and continued from there, and he's pretty good with names and pronouns now. I guess something just has to click in some people; give it some time for that 'click.' It's not always about disrespecting someone, sometimes their perspective just isn't as open or revealing of their faults yet.

Good luck! 

[Rotika]

I'm not there. I don't know and cannot say exactly what your current friends' problems may be. I just know that friendships get complicated when you have to completely rebuild them. I have had the same best friend for 17 years. Met him when I was 11 at church lol.. I came out to him last month and he sez he accepts me. But he does the same thing your friends are doing. Incorrect pronouns and such. But on the other hand.. he also hasn't seen ME yet other than in pictures. (Situational problems in time prevent it). So I can't really fault him for it.

On the other hand.. we had a falling out awhile back. I did something terrible to him and he needed about 6 years to figure out how to forgive me. I understood. And was patient. In fact I joined the military while I waited. But the point is.. it took that long for him to adjust to the fact I was still going to be in his life. As his best friend until death if he'd have me. I really do believe he'll eventually call me the right pronouns. But it's going to take time. His words were "Throwing a ->-bleeped-<- into our friendship doesn't change anything but WHAT your are. Not WHO you are. You were always an oddball.. Now I just have to try not to stare at your boobs" and we laughed over it..

Things to consider though:
How long have these people been your friends?
   Is the friendship worth working for on your part or is it more of a brick wall?
How "ok" are these friends with the LGBT community? Will they be ok with you making and bringing over new friends like us? Or would you have to hide us from them?
   Even though they say they accept "you" do they do crap like "gay bashing" or talk down on people like you and I?
      Before I came out.. my whole family talked MAJOR crap about the LGBT community. Now they don't. At all. They just didn't understand it before and needed educated.
If you get new friends.. what kind of friends would you look for? No one is perfect.And making NEW friends can prove a lot harder than helping your current ones understand you over time.

Sorry for the terribly long reply.
  *HUGS*

[ImagineKate]

1. Not all that long. Maybe at most 2 years.

2. It can and may work.

3. The only one who has said any homophobic things about another person is actually the most supportive of me which is extremely weird. His wife also has a close relative who is MTF. The others, I don't really know. I know one I talked to about same sex marriage and he said he was OK with civil unions but not marriage. The other is more or less an "anything goes" kinda guy but the first question he asked me is "so are you still into chicks?" The other has been silent about me but he says he "accepts everyone except Muslims." Will they be OK with friends like you all? I honestly don't know, for most of them it is brand new.

4. First off I doubt they would be talking down to me in general. As for LGBT I don't think that's their crowd but they don't judge.

Making friends - I've gone through tons of friends mostly because I moved around. When I was in school I had mostly women as friends. Then after school I had a set of women I would hang out with, go clubbing with, etc. I also had my colleagues who were friends. Then I emigrated and it's almost like my girlfriends had a funeral for me. We kept in touch but largely lost touch. It's hard to keep friendships across international boundaries because we were accustomed to doing stuff and going out, hanging out, getting drunk and making mischief.

In New York I made a few friends mostly related to volunteer activities I would be doing. Then I moved to NJ and I made new friends in my ham radio club but they were much older, mostly men. The thing about these friends is that they're low maintenance unlike my girl friends and we don't really hang out. Then this new set of friends I met recently because I liked company to go target shooting. That's mostly what we do. One of them is also involved locally with political activity which I used to be a part of (but can't do anymore due to work restrictions).

What am I looking for? People with common interests mostly. People I can hang out with and who share my passions. You don't have to share them all, just maybe one or two. Or maybe just tell a few good jokes and stuff. That kinda thing.

[April_TO]

Hi Babe,

I completely get you. There's wisdom in both sides of the coin - give them time and let them get used to it or just be firm and clear that if misgendering happens again then you're out.

I had that happen to me once inside the women's dressing room. I was trying on some stuff when my ex-friend called me by my old male name and what made it worse is that I'm the only one using the change room. What a twit!

I graciously got out of the dressing room and left her in the mall and vowed never to speak to her again. Those are the types of instances where you just have to let go and let God deal with it. I am slowly letting go and gaining new friends at the same time. As the saying goes, they do come and go.

My opinion, life is short I'd rather spend my time with friends that accepts me for who I am and that includes using the correct pronouns. People will selectively remember if it matters to them (ATM passwords, Pay Day etch) why can't they remember my request if I matter to them and that is my opinion.

Love,

April

[Alana_Jane]

Sorry to hear that you're having issues with people who claim to be your friends, Kate.  Maybe you need to sit each down and just be honest and sincerely let each know that, you'd really appreciate some effort to refer to you by your prefered pronouns and name, let them know if they make a mistake you're really appreciate it if they self-corrected.  My ex has a term for this as her father used to keep saying the same thing over-and-over again: "Change the tape".  It seems they're not making much of an effort to "Change the tape"  on your prefered pronouns. 

If I were anywhere near NYC, I'd come over and give you a hug.  One thing my therapist recommended for me, and maybe it'd be easier for you to access, would be a TG therapy group?  Where I live it takes me 3hrs to get to the one nearest me.  I just happen to be about 30 minutes away when I'm at my electrolysis spa. 
Love you,

-Alana

[Mariah]

ImageKate, It doesn't sound like even that one person is truly excepting because if they were they wouldn't be doing one thing in private and another around others. I have an Aunt who claimed to be accepting when talking to me, but even when corrected makes no effort what so ever to correct herself or even apologize. The truth came out later when she talked with my brother without me around. She isn't excepting which I already figured and other than when I have to I don't associate with. It's not that I have necessary put a time frame on it it's that I'm more concerned with the effort after awhile as time goes by. I agree with others that they really missed a good teaching oppurtnity with the child. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't give up on them yet, but you need to let them know how you feel about how they are treating you because I can only hope their knowing that might change their behavior if they are truly excepting. Good Luck and Hugs.
Mariah

Here is the thing though.

I get that it takes time to adjust. I truly do. I don't expect everyone to magically just switch completely overnight.

But the point is that there seemed to be zero effort, except by one person, and even so only privately with me.

[Tori]

Kate, this is one of many struggles ahead of you.

Enjoy your transition.

I highly suggest being even more forgiving during transition than you were before.

Why?

Because if your friends want to be around you, they are not as bigoted as some people can be, and early on it is good to have your friends, even if they may not entirely get or understand what you are going through. Transitioning all alone is a terrible struggle for most people. We tend to do better when we have access to friends, in spite of their faults.

Friends can be educated. Be polite. Have a sense of humor and be encouraging, at least for a while. This is NOT just to give them time, it is to buy yourself time. You need time to make new friends, and you can't do that alone. Your old friends will learn from your example but also from the examples of others.

Your one friend who used female pronouns in private? Perhaps talk to them and ask them to help you with the others. Explain that if you make a big fuss about it, it may make everyone defensive, but with their help, simply by calling you the proper things in everybody's presence, mountains could be moved.

Really though, gentle corrections work wonders. If someone calls me Tommy, I just say, "I am working with Tori now." I do not need to make a threat, or tell them how bad they make me feel, or shame them. The point gets made, gently, and they tend to conclude that they should call me Tori if they don't want to see my She-Hulk.

Pronouns are small beans compared to the other ways people can and do hurt trans folk, especially when we do not pass. If you don't learn to forgive even better than you forgave before transition, especially over the small stuff, you could be in for a world of hurt when the big stuff comes around. Things like overt bigotry and physical harassment make things like pronouns pale in comparison, and if you don't learn how to handle your friends' mistakes without upsetting them, how on Earth can you handle a potentially dangerous situation with a bigot?

I hope that makes sense. There are some lessons in transition you do not want to learn the hard way.

Aloha
Tori

[ImagineKate]

So I think I figured it out now.

My so called "friends" are traitors.

Suffice to say one of their wives has been talking to mine behind my back, and mine is making plans to leave.

With her help.

So much for friends.

[AbbyKat]

Kate, this is something I'm fully anticipating with my friends.  I don't think my best friend will have issues with at least trying to get it right.  It's my other friends that I expect issues with.

I have a group of guys I used to hang out with regularly.  Luckily, I don't as often now since I quit drinking.  My wife and I changed our names when we got married and I also changed my first name because it costs the same (more bang for the buck).  The new name was my new name.  Not one of the people from that group used it no matter how much I insisted.  It's been over a decade and they normally still call me my old name.  This has me pretty much convinced they will always misgender me, as well.  I opened to one of them when I took him for coffee and explained to him that this is why I won't be hanging out with the group anymore.  He explained to me that they don't call me by my new (apparently 10 years is still new to these people!) because they met me with a different name and that's how they got to know me.  Old dog, new tricks.  He assures me that it won't be an issue but i'm still doubtful.

Will I disown them for not getting it right the first few times I hang out with them after I ask them?  No... it's taken over a decade for some of them to get my name right so I know they just suffer from stubbornness.  If they willfully do it to hurt me, then I'll seek out some new friends.  But to be honest, I love those guys, whether or not they equate respect with pronouns.  It's just a different value system they have and it will buy them some extra consideration from me but... after a few times of it?  Nah.

I'd say just give it some time.  People can't possible understand what we go through and it's unfair for us to expect them to right away.  It sounds like they care about you and aren't trying to hurt you.  If it continues then maybe they are.

[Eveline]

My so called "friends" are traitors.

Suffice to say one of their wives has been talking to mine behind my back, and mine is making plans to leave.

With her help.

Wow, this is just shocking. I hope you are doing OK, sweetie.

The lawyer is a good idea - it's wise to get prepared early. However, as soon as you disclose you are seeing one, things can escalate quickly. Best to keep lawyer visits and all details of legal discussions to yourself, even if provoked.

Unsolicited advice, I know, but hoping you can avoid any extra chaos...

[April_TO]

Keeping friends for the sake of keeping them just so you won't end up being alone is madness. I understand that transition is difficult and no man is island and there's no denying that we need support from our friends and loved ones. However, having so cold friends that doesn't add value to your life but  rather insults you from using old pronouns is just not acceptable to me. They are no different from the bigots that you might/will encounter in the real world.

I have 5 friends that immediately trained themselves to use the correct pronouns and even uses my old name at work if they have to and would switch it off as soon as we're out of the office. Easy no, however on the second day of coming out to them they immediately called me April. Am I lucky? I don't think so. I just have friends that respects me and would address me the way I want to be addressed because they love me even if at times they don't understand. Those in my opinion are friends.

I am of the opinion that we train how we want people to treat us. However, making excuses for friends that makes fun of you and uses incorrect pronouns are not acceptable. Forgiveness is one, condoning it is another.

[Alana_Jane]

That's really sad, Kate.  That she would drag you along like she's trying to accept you as she's making exit plans with the wife of a "so-called" friend.  Keep your head up lady, you can get through this.

-Alana

[Just Shelly]

I know all too well how improper pronouns can make one feel. But I never had that feeling until about a year full time or even longer with my children. I have been full time for a little over 3 years, my children have finally used proper pronouns in about the last eight months. Some of this was because of me not demanding it, once I did and told them why they tried harder and do a fairly good job now. BUT, can you imagine how hard this is to do for them, and they don't see me as a male or treat me like one either.

I think too many trans want this too quickly. I'm sorry but you and many more need to be more realistic. I have always tried to put myself in other peoples shoes in many situations, I did this often with my transition. If you think it is easy for someone to refer to you by a new name or a new gender than you don't understand how all people think. A good example is try calling your cat or dog the opposite gender....its not easy. Sure it doesn't help that they can't tell you...but the main thing is it is ingrained in someone.  Or try calling someone a new name.....my one son wanted to be called by his middle name....I was all for it since I really liked it, we soon forgot too often that it just faded away.

I still have a few members of my family I don't see often that use the wrong pronoun....and I am sure my ex does with my children. It sucks but its human nature.

[Rudy King]

You need to give people time to get adjusted.  It's not going to happen overnight, and in a week.  It takes the longest for people who knew you before.

[ImagineKate]

You need to give people time to get adjusted.  It's not going to happen overnight, and in a week.  It takes the longest for people who knew you before.

It's not even about getting adjusted. There was ZERO effort. NONE whatsoever. He, him, his. All night long. Even though I asked and said stop it, it's she, her and hers. They just continued like I was talking to a brick wall.

One of my "friends" even referred to me as "the only man in the room that can (the rest of the conversation is private)." The least he could have done was say only PERSON and keep it genderless. And it's not like I was even presenting male at all.

[Muffinheart]

You can't choose your family, but you sure as hell can choose your friends.

If it were me, I'd be seeking new friends.

[alexis.j]

New friends!

Transition brings a lot of decisions, and you should mix with people that bring you up and support you. Most of my friends support my decision, and those that didn't, I don't mix with anymore... You tell them, judge by their response, and if after some time their is no effort from their side, just move on!
You will know when they are trying or just don't care! It is very obvious...

My dad refuses to see me as his daughter or call me my new name, my mom says she tries, but switches on and off as it conveniently suits her (and depending on who she is around...), and when asked/confronted, starts making a huge scene stating how difficult it is and she knows me my whole like, blah blah... How come I have good, old friends that adjusted really quickly, and very occasionally make a little slip-up, and then apologize, and others don't try at all, unless you make a scene, then they apologize and come up with excuses, just to shut you up.

I now refuse to go out anywhere in public with my parents, unless their attitude towards me changes.

This is MY life and I must live it, and don't see why I must suffer because someone wont accept me for who I am.

If you don't like what I am and what I am doing, Get the h@ll out of my life!

O, and regarding adjustment time. Yes, everyone will need some time, but be realistic about it.


Hope everything turns out good for you :-)

[Muffinheart]

^^^^^^^^^^
What she said.
To hell with those who refuse to even try.
Life is too short to be wasted on family or friends who are having trouble seeing that we are adults, making our life decisions.

[April_TO]

This is exactly what I said in my post. Why should I adjust and accommodate to you when I am the one who's undergoing all these changes.
Life is short to be surrounded by people that does NOT add value to your life.

Move on, make friends - you are not married to them.

April xo

^^^^^^^^^^
What she said.
To hell with those who refuse to even try.
Life is too short to be wasted on family or friends who are having trouble seeing that we are adults, making our life decisions.

[Rudy King]

It's not even about getting adjusted. There was ZERO effort. NONE whatsoever. He, him, his. All night long. Even though I asked and said stop it, it's she, her and hers. They just continued like I was talking to a brick wall.

One of my "friends" even referred to me as "the only man in the room that can (the rest of the conversation is private)." The least he could have done was say only PERSON and keep it genderless. And it's not like I was even presenting male at all.

I would suggest having an heart to heart then and talk to them about it.  I'm sure they weren't doing in spite.

My voice is gender ambiguous, and so at work I get called sir all the time, but in my street clothes, I'm a girl (unless I get sick).  I've learned not to give a s#!t.

All I can tell you is, you shouldn't just give up friends just because they misgender you, especially if they decided to stay with you in transition.