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do you think there is an absolute sure way not to regret GRS

Started by stephaniec, May 15, 2015, 10:41:47 PM

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JoanneB

The engineer in me knows there is no perfect solution to anything. At best only ways to get to point B without making more headaches then you are solving. IMO anyone who has absolutely no regrets about doing something is not being totally honest with themselves, or not wanting to ask themselves the right questions.

What any of us NEED to do for ourselves comes with a cost. The cost/benefit ratio determines the ultimate decision, at that one point in time, since none of us can predict, much less control, the future. Decisions are based on a set of assumptions hopefully based on knowledge. You adjust your heading along the way. Sure surgery is mostly something you cannot undo. But the same can mostly be said about anything else to date. Can you even picture life without HRT now? Not even including being able to look in a mirror and smile. Yet, I am sure there were some fears or doubts leading up to the decision and execution

Regrets about GCS can even come from a direction not totally expected. I know one transwoman, now some 25 years post-op, who does have some regret about surgery. All over the big impact it has had on her general health starting with the surgery almost killing her because of the docs arrogance about her deformed hip, a major post-op infection that the remnants still haunt her today. Add to that loss of male privileged, very evident by how doctors treat her totally differently the "the hubby" is with her vs w/o. Even I see it with the almost zero eye contact they make with her while going over her treatment options!

Inaction also bears a cost. We all know that factor well after spending a good part of our lives not doing anything about our GD, beyond hopefull wishing.
.          (Pile Driver)  
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                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
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stephaniec

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Jenna Marie

Hey, over the years, I actually *have* had cis women hear about GRS (general terms( and then say to me that if they had a penis they'd want to keep it. :) OK, they admit it would be publicly/socially awkward etc., but that's not a good reason to change one's body.

And yes, mine is perfectly functional and indistinguishable from the at birth kind and I dilate once every week or two now, but I WISH I'd only had to dilate 2-3 times a week. ;) It was 4x a day for the first month...
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LeaP

To be completely obvious, it seems the best way to avoid regret is to know you are female-identified, i.e., not that you associate with, long to be, are part this/part that, etc, but to know. 

Several of my post-op friends were (and are) firm on that point, but were ambivalent for a variety of reasons on SRS.  None of them regret it in the least, and ALL of them describe it as transformative psychologically as well as physically.  In this way, it's confirming surgery not in the sense of resolving doubt, but in confirming and building what is already there. 

Of the two people I know best who have had problems, the first (who almost died) has no regrets.  The second, who has some moderate, ongoing problems, has experienced the confirmation but wonders in retrospect if the ongoing pain was worth it. 

So separate the issues: regret because it was a mistake to begin with, or disliking the burdens SRS can bring.  The first is rare, the second is common but seldom rises to the level of actual regret - where one wishes they had not done it.  The difference is really important, because anti-trans people like to focus on people's issues (not regrets, though that's how they try to spin it) as evidence that SRS is wrong.  A better comparison is natal women who go through terrible menstrual cycles ... they may complain, it may burden their lives, but they don't regret being women, and they don't usually pursue hysterectomies to solve the problem, either.
Lea
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Athena

Have faith in yourself and the choices you make. Also make sure you have goals past grs, it is time to start thinking about after.
Formally known as White Rabbit
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suzifrommd

Quote from: LeaP on May 16, 2015, 11:35:51 AM
To be completely obvious, it seems the best way to avoid regret is to know you are female-identified, i.e., not that you associate with, long to be, are part this/part that, etc, but to know. 

I need strongly to disagree with this.

Not everyone experiences their gender identity in the same way.

Some people know they are a woman. Others just really want to be a woman. There are other ways it feels like as well. Neither is any less or more suitable for GRS.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Emily E

Nope you will regret something if you get GRS but if you don't get GRS you will regret not doing it I can guarantee that... don't let the possibility of regret prevent you from making this move towards making yourself whole you have worked to hard to get here and the stars, moon, and planets are lining up for you.
I'll struggle hard today to live the life I want tomorrow !

Step One - Lose the weight!



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Beth Andrea

Quote from: Emily E on May 16, 2015, 01:42:53 PM
Nope you will regret something if you get GRS but if you don't get GRS you will regret not doing it I can guarantee that... don't let the possibility of regret prevent you from making this move towards making yourself whole you have worked to hard to get here and the stars, moon, and planets are lining up for you.

Not always...even if one has all their ducks in a row and at the last minute decides (for whatever reason, or even no reason) to hold off on SRS, I could see them accepting that state, and adjusting their self-perception to accommodate it...and not have regrets.

Of course, some will have regrets...but not all.
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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LeaP

Lea
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Emily E

Quote from: Beth Andrea on May 16, 2015, 04:55:58 PM
Not always...even if one has all their ducks in a row and at the last minute decides (for whatever reason, or even no reason) to hold off on SRS, I could see them accepting that state, and adjusting their self-perception to accommodate it...and not have regrets.

Of course, some will have regrets...but not all.

To me regret includes what ifs such as "what if I asked that one girl to date me" or "what would have happened if I hadn't suspended getting SRS all those years ago" because to me if you're asking those questions of yourself you are regretting it at some level even if you have accepted or are living with the results of your decision. 
I'll struggle hard today to live the life I want tomorrow !

Step One - Lose the weight!



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ClaireIvene

Quote from: Abysha on May 16, 2015, 03:46:43 AM
Your comparison to a foreigner doesn't exactly fit.  Think of this instead: a person moving to another nation to become a full citizen but still feels comfortable with keeping the traditions and customs of his or her old country.

Many transfolk are transgender because they are dysphoric.  If, during their journey, their dysphoria alleviates, then mission accomplished!  No matter what your body looks like when that mission is accomplished, it's still accomplished.  You've won at that point.

Personally, I plan on going through with operation because it's a major source of dysphoria for me.  But if my HRT (which I just got today, wooo!) leaves me in a place where I'm content, I may change my mind.  I'll continue my journey until I've won.  I may win before GRS is necessary or I may not.  Either way, I'm going to win this.

It's not so black and white.

Well I thought my analogy was a bit off but still a little applicable. The most simple way to state my pov then is that the people who do not wish for srs but want to have 'feminized' bodies are more like feminized males or more appropriately middle sex.

I know someone might say "what about ciswomen born with disfigured vaginas? Are they not total women then?" No that's not what I'm saying I'm pretty sure they don't want that issue or whatever and would gladly work to circumvene that issue and have it resemble a healthy vagina.

Hmm, I guess the best way to put it is their 'gender' is female their 'appearance' is female but their sex is still clearly male I'm sorry that's just how I see it.

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ClaireIvene

Now I'm sorry if I sounded mean and non-understanding. Admittedly though I'm not meaning to invoke negative emotion in anyone it's apparent that it will happen and is already happening. I'm very sorry to anyone I hurt because my lack of being able to relate. I may hate my penis and will rejoice and sing praises when it's a vag but that's my and some others preference and it does not mean others share it.

In any case I never said that those transwomen that prefer to keep their penises shouldn't be treated as a woman. They obviously should be identified legally and have the same feminine pronouns used when addressing them.

So please don't think I'm some mean b**** who is harshly judgmental to people that disagree with her and s***.
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Zoetrope

In a word, no, I don't think it can be guaranteed.

But this is nothing new. Just transitioning is a big gamble.

We have all taken big risks with HRT, because in the beginning we just don't know how our genes will carry it off.

But if you're happy with how it has gone, like I am, then you have already stared this kind of tension down, and succeeded.

If you've done it once, you can do it again :~)
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AnonyMs

Quote from: ClaireIvene on May 17, 2015, 02:52:14 AM
Now I'm sorry if I sounded mean and non-understanding. Admittedly though I'm not meaning to invoke negative emotion in anyone it's apparent that it will happen and is already happening. I'm very sorry to anyone I hurt because my lack of being able to relate. I may hate my penis and will rejoice and sing praises when it's a vag but that's my and some others preference and it does not mean others share it.

In any case I never said that those transwomen that prefer to keep their penises shouldn't be treated as a woman. They obviously should be identified legally and have the same feminine pronouns used when addressing them.

So please don't think I'm some mean b**** who is harshly judgmental to people that disagree with her and s***.
Personally I didn't take any offense at what you said or see it as mean. I did see it as "non-understanding" as you put it in the quote above and in the original post where you started with "I can't really understand". That's fine with me, you don't understand is all. Its not like you said its wrong, which no doubt would have had a much stronger reaction. However its its a fairly thin line that separates the two, and one where I'd hesitate before posting.

Quote from: ClaireIvene on May 17, 2015, 02:29:07 AM
Well I thought my analogy was a bit off but still a little applicable. The most simple way to state my pov then is that the people who do not wish for srs but want to have 'feminized' bodies are more like feminized males or more appropriately middle sex.

I think "middle sex" would be non-binary, and there's plenty of enlightening posts on that topic if you search a bit. If you don't mind some advice, I think some of the way you write lacks clarity and you could try to work on that.

Rightly or wrongly the response is predictable in these forums, and if it had been over the line I've no doubt the moderators would have come in and deleted it all. I'd not worry about it much, although I know it feels bad when you post and it either gets ignored, jumped on or moderated (been there, done that).
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Cindy

Quote from: AnonyMs on May 17, 2015, 03:43:22 AM
Quote from: ClaireIvene on May 17, 2015, 02:52:14 AM
Now I'm sorry if I sounded mean and non-understanding. Admittedly though I'm not meaning to invoke negative emotion in anyone it's apparent that it will happen and is already happening. I'm very sorry to anyone I hurt because my lack of being able to relate. I may hate my penis and will rejoice and sing praises when it's a vag but that's my and some others preference and it does not mean others share it.

In any case I never said that those transwomen that prefer to keep their penises shouldn't be treated as a woman. They obviously should be identified legally and have the same feminine pronouns used when addressing them.

So please don't think I'm some mean b**** who is harshly judgmental to people that disagree with her and s***.
Personally I didn't take any offense at what you said or see it as mean. I did see it as "non-understanding" as you put it in the quote above and in the original post where you started with "I can't really understand". That's fine with me, you don't understand is all. Its not like you said its wrong, which no doubt would have had a much stronger reaction. However its its a fairly thin line that separates the two, and one where I'd hesitate before posting.

Quote from: ClaireIvene on May 17, 2015, 02:29:07 AM
Well I thought my analogy was a bit off but still a little applicable. The most simple way to state my pov then is that the people who do not wish for srs but want to have 'feminized' bodies are more like feminized males or more appropriately middle sex.

I think "middle sex" would be non-binary, and there's plenty of enlightening posts on that topic if you search a bit. If you don't mind some advice, I think some of the way you write lacks clarity and you could try to work on that.

Rightly or wrongly the response is predictable in these forums, and if it had been over the line I've no doubt the moderators would have come in and deleted it all. I'd not worry about it much, although I know it feels bad when you post and it either gets ignored, jumped on or moderated (been there, done that).

Differences in opinion when clearly stated are fine. Indeed are healthy and informative.

Invalidation of any group is not.

Personally, the last time I was asked if I had surgery or not I replied that is a matter between me, my boyfriend, my gynaecologist and my surgeon.

Oh I gender identify as female, I am female and my sex is straight female.  As for surgery; see above.
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ClaireIvene

Quote from: AnonyMs on May 17, 2015, 03:43:22 AM
Personally I didn't take any offense at what you said or see it as mean. I did see it as "non-understanding" as you put it in the quote above and in the original post where you started with "I can't really understand". That's fine with me, you don't understand is all. Its not like you said its wrong, which no doubt would have had a much stronger reaction. However its its a fairly thin line that separates the two, and one where I'd hesitate before posting.

Well in that case I'm glade. I really do not want to sound like a close minded bigot. At this point since I do have a easily guilt tripped personality I'm wishing to delete my previous messages. It really goes to show how much you'll regret what you say while discussing an issue as touchy as this one is.

QuoteIf you don't mind some advice, I think some of the way you write lacks clarity and you could try to work on that.

I take pride in my writing and as a matter of fact I'm a pretty good at it too. I totally see what you mean about my other messages they are a bit ummm.... unstructured. Retrospectively looking at them I can see the issues with them. Hehe, sounds like I'm making excuses for myself now but when writing those messages I was just really relaxed and was not paying attention to structure, how or if I'm conveying my points coherently or even my spelling, soo yeah.. it's kind of embarrassing to read them.

Quote.... when you post and it either gets ignored, jumped on or moderated (been there, done that).

Not only is it "sad" but it is also annoying and angering when people only respond to negative toned responses from some people while never responding or even paying any minute degree of attention to the positive messages. That's just the way the world is pay attention to the bad things a person does but forget their good deeds. 
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AnonyMs

Quote from: ClaireIvene on May 17, 2015, 04:10:12 AM
I take pride in my writing and as a matter of fact I'm a pretty good at it too. I totally see what you mean about my other messages they are a bit ummm.... unstructured. Retrospectively looking at them I can see the issues with them. Hehe, sounds like I'm making excuses for myself now but when writing those messages I was just really relaxed and was not paying attention to structure, how or if I'm conveying my points coherently or even my spelling, soo yeah.. it's kind of embarrassing to read them.
Relaxed because you didn't realize you were going for a stroll in a minefield perhaps. You've just made me realize I'm never relaxed when I write here, and I'll thank you for that. It's probably not a good sign, but I do get some else out of it, and that is good.

Quote from: ClaireIvene on May 17, 2015, 04:10:12 AM
Not only is it "sad" but it is also annoying and angering when people only respond to negative toned responses from some people while never responding or even paying any minute degree of attention to the positive messages. That's just the way the world is pay attention to the bad things a person does but forget their good deeds.
I'm pretty sure the world is not going to change, so I just try to let it go. I like arguing way too much, so life's easier that way.
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Katie

If someone is a woman then there will be no regrets from SRS.
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kathyk

Quote from: Katie on May 17, 2015, 08:50:10 AM
If someone is a woman then there will be no regrets from SRS.

Katie, that's pretty much it.   And I'd guess that at least 99% of the girls who begin transition will have nothing more than complete satisfaction with the end results.  But there are a few who my not have been ready, or didn't have the surgical results they envisioned.  I know of two girls (one personally) who've had difficulties with post surgery complications.  But even they only want corrections made, and are for the most part pleased to finally be themselves.





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kathyk

Quote from: suzifrommd on May 16, 2015, 11:50:14 AM
I need strongly to disagree with this.

Not everyone experiences their gender identity in the same way.

Some people know they are a woman. Others just really want to be a woman. There are other ways it feels like as well. Neither is any less or more suitable for GRS.

Yes, we all experience our identity differently.  Yet knowing where our own road goes, and who we need to be in the end is the reason for taking the step into surgery. Oh, I have to kick myself and get a bit depressed for finally being ready at an old age, but then I'd never give up this happiness.





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