Duality of self / mourning old self

[Ell]

But everyone saying GOOD RIDDENS! and THANK GOD HE'S DEAD just seems so flippant, so dismissive. I had a life. A GOOD life. Yea OK, It sucked that I wasn't female. But I built the best life I could, and that *included* other people, and their expectations and hopes and dreams built around those promises I made AS a male.

And she's right. For me, my life, my situation... she's absolutely right.

~Kate~

yeah, see i don't get that. my friend asked me if i were going to have a wake for the part of me that was gone. i said no. my personality is one of the constants here that's not going to change. i'm just making a few adjustments to accommodate it.

[Karla B]

I can understand Kate. No matter how much we deny it, our old selves are a major part of the new people we're becomming. We can get rid of the old shell, but mentally? I believe we might always have a brief thought or memory of our old selves. Especialy if you've lived for a longer period as your old self.
I believe all the happieness and joy we might feel is contributed more to  becomming who we want to be and not so much to 'killing' our old selves.
I look at it this way, I'm "evolving" into the new me. That can't be done without my old self ever existing. I hope I'm making some kind of sense.

[ketti]

Watching things die makes me sad. It's really just that simple.

Maybe we are talking about quite simple personality traits? You know how some people can easily part from clothes they don't use anymore and some are always saving everything "just in case" or for emotional value? I know i was the later though my first 10 something years. I was always mourning lost civilizations, dying seasons, well i think i managed to feel nostalgic about anything really. I don't know what happaned since then, but now im the total opposite. I feel euphoric about seeing/letting things go. I enjoy throwing things away that i dont use anymore (which i could never do as a child).
Do i make sence? What about you people?

[Hypatia]

We can get rid of the old shell, but mentally? I believe we might always have a brief thought or memory of our old selves. Especialy if you've lived for a longer period as your old self.

Honestly, I just don't feel that. And I will not pretend to feel something just because people tell me I'm supposed to feel it. That's where I went wrong in the first place... and I've learned from my bitter experience.

As I said above, I feel plenty of mourning for the loving relationships that are being strained and broken by my transition. Those relationships were predicated upon my male persona. But that was wrong and it has to change. There really is no male me, it was just a mask... and now it's disintegrated because it was never real in the first place. I only care about the relationships, the love shared with others. The male persona itself was just a false face adopted in desperation to preserve those relationships. That doesn't give it any validity in itself, though. To be an honest, integral being, I need to form relationships based only on my true self. The false persona is nothing but poison to me. I would love to keep all my loving relationships, but they have to be based on who I really am, or no deal.

So Kate, maybe our feelings aren't so far apart after all, the difference being that I locate all my mourning in my relationships, while your old male persona gets a share in the mourning along with these relationships. You seem to recognize some vestigial validity in the male persona itself, whereas to me it was just a lie. I feel sickened at having lied to myself and others for so long.

[Kate]

As I said above, I feel plenty of mourning for the loving relationships that are being strained and broken by my transition. Those relationships were predicated upon my male persona. But that was wrong and it has to change.

Which is pretty much what I'm saying too. I'm at a fork in the road, where one path leads through a continued "male" (in a sense) life with a wife, having a child, growing old together, picket fences...

And the other is the Path Less Taken which leads to... well, I have no idea yet. The unknown adventure of my life.

And yes, I know the "male" path is an illusion, it simply cannot be, even if I DID take it. But still... other people in my life are also being affected by that admission, and losing parts of their life because of it as well.

There really is no male me, it was just a mask... and now it's disintegrated because it was never real in the first place.

I took a deep breath after my snotty comments here last night (I am SO sorry!), and stepped back from it for a bit. I talked to my wife about al this, my anger, and this thread about mourning a "male self." I told her I think I finally get what she's been telling me SHE'S been going through.

She said, "No, you STILL don't get it. It's not that I'm mourning the loss of your male self, it's that I'm realizing more and more that HE WAS NEVER THERE in the first place. My whole life was wrapped around an illusion, a ghost. It all makes so much sense now. It's not that a male didn't want to have sex, it's that KATE didn't want to have sex. It's not that a male didn't want to be a husband, it's that KATE didn't want to be a husband. There never WAS a "he," I see it all so clearly now, and yet I just can't believe we lived for so long not facing up to that."

~Kate~

[Hypatia]

Sounds like a major breakthrough in the relationship, Kate, and a proper basis for beginning to build a marriage for your real self. My wife isn't there yet and I don't know if she ever will be.

[Karla B]

We can get rid of the old shell, but mentally? I believe we might always have a brief thought or memory of our old selves. Especialy if you've lived for a longer period as your old self.

Honestly, I just don't feel that. And I will not pretend to feel something just because people tell me I'm supposed to feel it. That's where I went wrong in the first place... and I've learned from my bitter experience.

As I said above, I feel plenty of mourning for the loving relationships that are being strained and broken by my transition. Those relationships were predicated upon my male persona. But that was wrong and it has to change. There really is no male me, it was just a mask... and now it's disintegrated because it was never real in the first place. I only care about the relationships, the love shared with others. The male persona itself was just a false face adopted in desperation to preserve those relationships. That doesn't give it any validity in itself, though. To be an honest, integral being, I need to form relationships based only on my true self. The false persona is nothing but poison to me. I would love to keep all my loving relationships, but they have to be based on who I really am, or no deal.

So Kate, maybe our feelings aren't so far apart after all, the difference being that I locate all my mourning in my relationships, while your old male persona gets a share in the mourning along with these relationships. You seem to recognize some vestigial validity in the male persona itself, whereas to me it was just a lie. I feel sickened at having lied to myself and others for so long.

Please don't misunderstand, I don't expect you to feel that way. I was expressing a feeling that I had while reading Kates post and somehow felt I could relate to what she said.
Yes, the male persona is a lie, I really want and need to be Karla. I've struggled with that for a heck of a long time, but I don't hate my old self either. I have many memories as my old self,some good ones and quit a few not so good ones. As Karla, I don't have any "yet". It's a little frightening. I sill have many things to face yet.
I believe that we all "basically" feel the same, other than some small differences.     

[Hypatia]

I'm glad you ladies have fairly good relationships with your old personas. The problem with mine was that it rotted from the inside in its final years. I still feel disgusted to look back on that and I'm just eternally thankful I came to my senses before it destroyed me. Now I'm healing from that and does it ever feel good. Awakening to my true self--consciously embarking on this transsexual journey--is what turned it all around and allowed my healing to begin.

[Wing Walker]

She said, "No, you STILL don't get it. It's not that I'm mourning the loss of your male self, it's that I'm realizing more and more that HE WAS NEVER THERE in the first place. My whole life was wrapped around an illusion, a ghost. It all makes so much sense now. It's not that a male didn't want to have sex, it's that KATE didn't want to have sex. It's not that a male didn't want to be a husband, it's that KATE didn't want to be a husband. There never WAS a "he," I see it all so clearly now, and yet I just can't believe we lived for so long not facing up to that."

~Kate~

There are few things in life that I find truly awesome and what Kate has written is one of them.  The crystal-clear understanding of a caring partner is as rare as totally unquestioning love, which Kate's partner has for her.  What a gem to see.  Thank you for sharing that, Kate.  It's most uplifting.

Since I began my transition in 2002 I have seldom questioned the duality of my life.  I have no photos to hide or burn.  My military uniform is gone, just like my gall bladder, to another dimension, along with my past life.

I have a friend of over 50 years who has had more problems with my past life than I have, but I understand that and we will always be friends. 

When I am talking with someone who knows that I am a transsexual woman I speak of doing things in my "past life" and that is clear enough for them.

If i am talking with someone who did not know of my GID I just phrase everything as I would have seen it as a natal female.  For example, I didn't go into the military because of the draft in 1970.  I went in to get money for college.  The positive things that were in my past life were done by me anyway so I tell it that way and leave the negative stuff on my exs, of which I had three.

I never had to bury my "old self."  My old self was truly female anyway, so in that regard I am transitioning from female to female.

That works for me.

Wing Walker
Flying With a Tailwind

[Hypatia]

I never had to bury my "old self."  My old self was truly female anyway, so in that regard I am transitioning from female to female.

That's why I speak of my former male "persona," not "self." My true female self was in hiding.