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The hopelessly unpassable thread. Yes, we do exist.

Started by Sydney Blair, July 09, 2015, 12:38:30 AM

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Sydney Blair

I'm 6'1 with a football player's build. Basically, I'm a giant. I have a round though very masculine looking face, did Virtual FFS and wouldn't you know it - it still looked male, just prettier. When I was 20, I discovered Jennifer Diane Reitz's site. I read about her emotional story, relating to everything. So I decided to go out as a woman. It didn't work. They still sired me, with makeup, with feminine eyebrows, etc. I applied makeup using a virtual makeover program to my computerized feminine face - still looked like a man. Bruce Jenner became a model, Chris Crocker of youtube can slap on the makeup and look like a woman. He got lip implants and doesn't need the makeup now.

To not even pass as an ugly woman with makeup when you feel transsexual is the ultimate horror. I've heard stories of the most beautiful looking MtFs thrown out of the house, rejected, abused, left with no place to live. But to not even look like a deformed woman? Many times I want to trade my face with the ugliest woman in the world, just to be able to speak in my real voice. Just to buy a pair of women's shoes in real life. A former boxer became passable recently, as did a 7 foot tall former basketball player. She's 7 feet tall - I'm much larger boned than her. I don't know how they did, though they did! She looks like a woman.

->-bleeped-<- has been in the news a lot lately, and I feel left out. It's just not right. Is there really any hope for the unpassable, other than meeting people online? My father accepts it, yet he refused to go out in public with me as a woman.

My psychiatrist said outright I was wearing a wig.

Many people don't like the transgendered no matter what - but to be in a completely unfeasible situation. Should we partake in a transgender group, even to make a friend? That's the only thing I can think of. Do transgender groups tend to accept completely unpassable Mtfs?

Some advice on what to do about this quagmire would be helpful. I faced the sea of laughing faces. I'm on disability now due to the anguish this has caused me. I don't want to die, though I don't want to live either. I can't even wear a pink shirt without remarks being made. I'm convinced it's because I'm big.

What should we do? Is there anyone else out there like me? Even one person. :-(
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suzifrommd

I know a number of transgender women who don't pass and never will.

They are among the happiest women I know. They are thrilled with their transitions, thrilled to be women (and they ARE women. Passability is not a requirement for gender...), and can be quite beautiful. They don't ever worry about whether they are clocked, and most of them report they rarely get misgendered. People can see that they're trans, but most respectful, polite people treat them as the women they are. Yes, people slip with pronouns, but they correct them politely or just let it pass because how people see them doesn't define them.

Hugs, Sydney. I really hope this helps.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Jerri

Jeez, I would need way more money and surgery than I will ever have or would want to spend to really pass.
that has no bearing on me transitioning and living full time as me.
I have no question when I started or today, that if there is or was anything such as being complete, that I will be anything other than Jerri,
that choice is way better a million times over than the path that other guy that used to hang out in my body choose. everyone has to decide what works best for them and the environment they live in. haters gonna hate no matter if I was the before me or today as me at least as me I can be right in my world
one day, one step, with grace it will be forward today
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ChiGirl

#3
When I was younger, passing was so important to me.  Maybe it's part of the reason I shied away from transitioning.  Now at 40, I'm not sure how much I care.  I just want to be myself.  I know my first few outings will be scary and I probably won't pass, but I'm looking forward to it. Remember, part of passing is attitude and confidence.   Good luck and hugs!

BTW, I'm 6' with size 13 feet, 300lbs+ and need a wig.  I feel for you.  But don't write yourself off.  I won't. [emoji4]

*edited because what I wrote first was dumb.
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Ms Grace

It seems you are writing yourself off before you get started. While I believe everyone should indeed be realistic about their appearance you shouldn't let your experiences pre HRT and with minimal dressing and presentation skills (like knowing the best and most appropriate clothes and wigs and makeup for you...some fashions draw more attention to what's "not working" for example). Granted some people are not able to pass but also many of them don't let that stop them, many do but believe they don't. I'm 49, 6'3" and need to wear a wig - I manage to pass but I had to work at it.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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big kim

6'1 and a half,234 pounds and I sound like Lemmy from Motorhead when he has a sore throat!
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highlight

I see this thread is starting to drift away. So I am going to post here. For the sake of it. Okay I am not in this situation really I am pathetically puny. I am 5.7 and only about 8 stone as I am very skinny.

As for face I don't look male or female. But that could change....I hope.

I know that you are self conscious, but a photo would help. After all the worst person in the world to judge your own appearance is yourself.

The programm you used was online. I don't know which one you used, but the program might not have been all that reliable. Most transwomen funny enough do seem to pass.
"If I am lucky Mr talent will rub his tendrils on my art"
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bibilinda

#7
Well I was very manly and I managed to make my appearance finally lean towards female after many, many years of trying, via HRT, exercises (body and facial), a bit of surgery pre and during HRT (If I had full FFS which I can't afford, I'm sure I'd become like 90% passable or so).

So here's my story:

I am six feet tall.

I was a bodybuilder from age 15 to 21 approximately. The idea was to become huge and defend myself from bullies in school. I think my chest-waist-hips were something like 51-36-40 with over 18-inch biceps and 16.5 inches neck, at my top size.

I started crossdressing maybe at 12 years old or something, but had dreams that I was a girl from before that. When I became a huge bodybuilder I still crossdressed secretly and looked awful, but I felt the need to do that.

Then I couldn't take it anymore and started reading about transgender people.

It took me years to decide to start HRT. Prior to that, I had a chin reduction surgery, laser facial hair removal, and a couple of attempts to enlarge my lips with my own fat, etc. I also started doing aerobic dance and other female exercises and decreased the male exercises, because I was no longer getting bulied, since I was done with school.

Today it has been six years since I started HRT, and in October will be five years since I had bilateral orchiectomy and tracheal shave.

Bottom line, I am just STARTING TO SEE my body finally look more than 50% fem at this point. I still have a large build, specially in my upper body, but believe me, HRT and male glands removal DO CHANGE your body a lot. But the big trade-off, at least in my own particular case, is that it has taken lots of time.

Now my measurements are about 41-32-5-40.5 breasts, waist and hips. My neck and arms are about 14 inches in diameter (arms with biceps flexed). I have an approaching-hourglass figure now, standing natural and relaxed, and a distinctly hourglass leaning to pear shape if I really pull my shoulders back. I still look like a mixture of woman and man, but it's a totally different body and face than that of myself in my bodybuilding, high-testosterone years.

So that's what has happened to me, after so many years of trying and trying to see changes, trying different wardrobe, hair and makeup and other things in order to look as casual and natural as a woman as possible (less is more, remember, makeup should be used only to minimize your defects and make your good features stand out, but just a little bit, it takes patience and practice, too much will out you as something other than a cis woman, because only prostitutes and drag queens wear excessive makeup as a general rule).

There are very subtle things than can make you read "male" even if your face is rather female. Even a tiny bit of beard shadow will immediately make you be seen as male by others. Same as hair in the hands or forearms. Regular women don't wear lots of makeup or flashy and attention-getting jewelry. Little but decidedly feminine accessories is better IMO. Small earrings, but decidedly fem, not unisex, Same with a necklace. Same with makeup. To me, foundation (I use powder to make my skin look a bit whiter than it really is and to conceal my problems, specially my undereye circles) as well as lip, cheek and eye liner, both above and below the eye, are just enough. I don't even curl or paint my eyelashes. I don't wear nail polish either. Just a modestly made-up face with conservative accessories can do the trick.  If you have large feet, hands and/or arms, then you have to avoid showing them at all costs, and try attention to your most feminine

But remember, I was HUGE and super-manly and it has taken me SIX YEARS already, since I started transitioning, to just start being seen and treated like a woman. And still what I wear is very important, as well as the voice.

I hope this helps. I've met other MTFs who have spent even more than six years, to finally start being treated as women. It is different for everybody. I think if I was able to lose so much muscle and my face litle by little become more feminine just with HRT, then this can happen to anybody that is really a transsexual and will do whatever it takes and however long it takes, to finally one day start seeing the tide lean towards feminine more than masculine.

Cheers

Bibi B.
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kelly_aus

Quote from: bibilinda on July 10, 2015, 06:57:18 PM
Same as hair in the hands or forearms.

I have a question about this.. Why is it every woman I know has hairy forearms? No, it's not the same as guys hairy forearms, but they are still hairy.

I will admit that in the 6 months or so after I started hormones I did wax my forearms, not because women have bald forearms, but to encourage female-typical hair to replace what was there. It worked.
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Beth Andrea

I'm 6' 0", about 240 lbs...have had people describe my build as "NFL linebacker."

I can soften some of the masculine features of the face with makeup (mainly blending out the male skin appearance), and I have a LOT of femme flourishes (not quite a sashay when walking, but you get the idea). These flourishes are natural, btw. One woman suggested I tone it down, and I was like, "But this IS what I do!"

I just accepted that I'll probably never pass...and what of it? I'd rather have features of a man (which I can't change) but otherwise looking girly (breasts, makeup, etc) than just giving up and going back to male impersonator.
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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Martine A.

Quote from: kelly_aus on July 10, 2015, 08:02:34 PM
I have a question about this.. Why is it every woman I know has hairy forearms? No, it's not the same as guys hairy forearms, but they are still hairy.
I also notice a lot of that. Imo, they don't care because hair normally doesn't make them unpassable. But it normally does us.

The same as with fat distribution, if I want to pass, I've got to actually hide it and be skinny. I am still pending HRT, so if I let the fat accumulate, I will end up looking more male-ish. Unlike most females.

Undergoing all those things like epilation, laser hair removal, control of what and how much I eat, how much I exercise, skin care, or even basic hygiene, to name a few, has also made me feel better about myself when I am faced with all those cis women who don't do that.

Sometimes I'd speak with a cis woman colleague of mine who is obese or overweight. When we get to talk about food and weight, their dyphoria is triggered as they watch my body. Yeah, I work for it and I am happy to do so. And it is not hard. It is like... Maybe that girl over there should have skipped that giant ice cream treat after already having a big lunch that I'd split in lunch, dinner and leftovers for the fridge...

Imo, things like FFS or buttock lift are senseless before I start HRT. I expect physical things to change from HRT, and they might change for worse if mods have already been done. So that will have to wait.
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HRT - on the hard way to it since 2015-Sep | Full time since evening 2015-Oct-16
Push forward. Step back, but don't look back.
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Sammy

Quote from: michellemartine on July 11, 2015, 01:56:51 AM
Sometimes I'd speak with a cis woman colleague of mine who is obese or overweight. When we get to talk about food and weight, their dyphoria is triggered as they watch my body. Yeah, I work for it and I am happy to do so. And it is not hard. It is like... Maybe that girl over there should have skipped that giant ice cream treat after already having a big lunch that I'd split in lunch, dinner and leftovers for the fridge...

Once You will start HRT, it WILL GET HARDER, lol. You will have to exercise more to stay in shape (and actually see less results afterwards). And dont get me started on those sudden irrestistable food cravings...
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Martine A.

Lol, I meant to write 'not easy'. ;D But that short sentence looks like an alien in there. :o
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HRT - on the hard way to it since 2015-Sep | Full time since evening 2015-Oct-16
Push forward. Step back, but don't look back.
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Sarah leah

I have less hair on my arms and legs than 90% of women, I just never got any. I only gained facial hair, armpits and male genital pattern hair. In all honesty some women are hairy and others are not. So I suppose it all comes down to density and perception.


A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but it is by no means the most interesting
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Randi

I'd rather be gender ambiguous than look male.  I have rather substantial breasts and a bald head.  I don't mind letting people know that I'm not totally male.

While I would love to look like a natal woman, that would take a lot of work.  It's also "not me".  For years I tried to hide myself and appear as a cis-gendered male.  That was never me.  Going to extreme lengths to appear female is also "not me".

I want to be my authentic self and can't be bothered with wearing a disguise, as either male or female.
 
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Sandra_V

Hi, allthough im not very tall (5'10") i spent my youth in denial and at the gym lifting waights. my body is now rather muscular, but i found this hope this will help you to. Just remember to always consult whit your doctor befor starting a diet.
http://www.trans-health.com/2001/lose-muscle-gain-fat-dieting-for-mtfs/

Good luck and remember that real beauty and femininity comes from within.
I am still me
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iKate

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on July 11, 2015, 02:29:10 AM
Once You will start HRT, it WILL GET HARDER, lol. You will have to exercise more to stay in shape (and actually see less results afterwards). And dont get me started on those sudden irrestistable food cravings...

In my case I haven't found this to be true. If anything, it's been easier to lose weight.
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iKate

So I'm not "hopelessly unpassable" but going without a voice these past few weeks has been interesting and revealing. I was also off my hormones for 3 weeks or so and yes I did notice a subtle yet significant difference. May have been placebo.

Visually in most clothes I am gendered female. Dresses and skirts? Gendered female universally. Pants and most tops/shirts? 90% of the time. Pants and certain types of T shirts (loose ones and baseball jersey)? That drops to 60-70%. However, you can tell there is some uncertainty in some people's eyes about my gender because they hesitate and if I tell them I am female they apologize and look horrified.

The way I wear my hair matters. If I let it down, it leaves things open for interpretation. Usually ungendered or sometimes misgendered if I'm wearing pants and a t shirt. Clip it to the back and let a few wisps hang to the side? Gendered correctly (female) universally.

Makeup matters. I wear it and I am gendered female 100% of the time. I don't wear it and that can drop, combined with clothing choice.

Nails matter, believe it or not. They don't have to be super long but they can't be stubby. I keep mine 0.5-1mm past my fingertip. They help to create the illusion of slim fingers.

Hips matter. My overall profile will look male in certain instances because my hips aren't the female shape and they haven't fully filled out yet. I may look into contouring sooner or later.

This is in the total absence of a female voice, or any voice. The voice is the swing vote as I've always said.  Get that down and it will override a lot of things. And it can go both ways. If there is any doubt as to your gender, your voice will confirm it for most people.
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Martine A.

If what I heard is correct, once hrt has started, fat is expected to distribute the feminine way.
So, if I am meant to be a fat girl, so be it*. Until then I'll keep working on getting slimmer and slimmer. I have four more years to go, so maybe my goal of 65-ish kg weight on mine 183 cm height will come true. That is like 143lbs to 6'.

* - Sometimes I'd hear 'sex bomb' song play, and instead of 'sex bomb', I'd play hearing 'fat girl'.
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HRT - on the hard way to it since 2015-Sep | Full time since evening 2015-Oct-16
Push forward. Step back, but don't look back.
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SamSparks

I don't know how to solve the problem but I try to be more honest about the reality of things than people who say "anyone can pass" cause I feel that hurts more than just being realistic.  In reality sexual dimorphism can be very very strong and with the wrong combinations of genetics sometimes someone can be just too far down one isle that they can't cover enough distance in the other direction to get past the wall separating the two.  Even some cis women (though rare) are born so masculine that people think they are transsexual or they are just considered very very ugly and to think there a lots of mtfs born in the same situation except even more extreme and you realize that not everyone has the framework to pass as the opposite sex and its sad.  All the solutions seem "not good enough" I'm sure but I suppose you just have to keep on living and focus on things that don't trigger gender dysphoria as much.
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